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Stefan Ferenci

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Since: Nov 18, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: new vamps in german game mag!
Archived from groups: rec>games>trading-cards>jyhad (more info?)

there were 2 promo vamps in the new copy of kartefakt

Duality
Tzimsce-Sabbat
Group 4

und
White Lily
MalkavianAnti-Sabbat BH
Group 4

exact stats are unkown at the moment


stefan

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John Flournoy

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Since: Feb 01, 2005
Posts: 239



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: new vamps in german game mag! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Stefan Ferenci wrote:
> there were 2 promo vamps in the new copy of kartefakt
>
> Duality
> Tzimsce-Sabbat
> Group 4
>
> und
> White Lily
> MalkavianAnti-Sabbat BH
> Group 4
>
> exact stats are unkown at the moment

Tease.

>
>
> stefan

-John Flournoy

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jeffkuta

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Since: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 143



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:15 pm
Post subject: Re: new vamps in german game mag! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Damnans wrote:
> John Flournoy wrote:
> > Stefan Ferenci wrote:
> > > there were 2 promo vamps in the new copy of kartefakt
> > >
> > > Duality
> > > Tzimsce-Sabbat
> > > Group 4
> > >
> > > und
> > > White Lily
> > > MalkavianAnti-Sabbat BH
> > > Group 4
> > >
>
> According to the vekn.de forum, their stats are:
>
> Duality
> Clan: Tzimisce (group 4)
> Capacity: 6
> Disciplines: ani AUS VIC
> Sabbat: When Duality plays a card that requires Vicissitude, you may
> draw an additional card.
>
> White Lily
> Clan: Malkavian antitribu (group 4)
> Capacity: 8
> Disciplines: DEM OBF for dom cel
> Sabbat Black Hand: Once per combat, before range is determined, white
> Lily may equip with a weapon from your hand. (Pay cost as normal)

Clearly the beneficial Black Hand trait and the detrimental Blood
Cursed trait cost the same...

Jeff
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Kevin Walsh

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Since: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 23



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:20 pm
Post subject: Re: new vamps in german game mag! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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jeffk... RemoveThis @pacbell.net wrote:
> > White Lily
> > Clan: Malkavian antitribu (group 4)
> > Capacity: 8
> > Disciplines: DEM OBF for dom cel
> > Sabbat Black Hand: Once per combat, before range is determined, white
> > Lily may equip with a weapon from your hand. (Pay cost as normal)
>
> Clearly the beneficial Black Hand trait and the detrimental Blood
> Cursed trait cost the same...
>
Possibly they do, but Fatima has 8 points of disciplines compared to
Lily's 7, and perhaps most notably has CEL compared to Lily's cel. Now,
Lily's a better bleeder, but Fatima's clearly a much better fighter.

Kevin Walsh
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jeffkuta

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Since: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 143



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: new vamps in german game mag! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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jeffk....TakeThisOut@pacbell.net wrote:
> Damnans wrote:
> > John Flournoy wrote:
> > > Stefan Ferenci wrote:
> > > > there were 2 promo vamps in the new copy of kartefakt
> > > >
> > > > Duality
> > > > Tzimsce-Sabbat
> > > > Group 4
> > > >
> > > > und
> > > > White Lily
> > > > MalkavianAnti-Sabbat BH
> > > > Group 4
> > > >
> >
> > According to the vekn.de forum, their stats are:
> >
> > Duality
> > Clan: Tzimisce (group 4)
> > Capacity: 6
> > Disciplines: ani AUS VIC
> > Sabbat: When Duality plays a card that requires Vicissitude, you may
> > draw an additional card.
> >
> > White Lily
> > Clan: Malkavian antitribu (group 4)
> > Capacity: 8
> > Disciplines: DEM OBF for dom cel
> > Sabbat Black Hand: Once per combat, before range is determined, white
> > Lily may equip with a weapon from your hand. (Pay cost as normal)
>
> Clearly the beneficial Black Hand trait and the detrimental Blood
> Cursed trait cost the same...
>
> Jeff

Um, never mind me. It was a moment of candy-induced weakness. Smile

Jeff
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echiang777

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Since: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 38



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: new vamps in german game mag! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Pat wrote:
> > Duality
> > Clan: Tzimisce (group 4)
> > Capacity: 6
> > Disciplines: ani AUS VIC
> > Sabbat: When Duality plays a card that requires Vicissitude, you may
> > draw an additional card.
> >
>
> Hmm... surprised s/he isn't Black Hand in addition... that special doesn't
> seem like a 1-pointer.
>
> - Pat


Eh...I'd say it's about right, especially considering the versatility
of Vicissitude.

In terms of other vampires, the only baselines we have to compare this
with is Ira Rivers (Auspex) and Yseult (Melpominee).

- Ira spends a point to get his Auspex additional card ability and +1
intercept on political actions (the latter is half a point at most,
especially since unconditional +1 intercept is only a single point).
Then again, one could argue that this is mitigated by the fact that an
extremely large proportion of Auspex cards are Reactions (which limits
how useful his ability is).

- In Yseult's case, her Melpominee additional card ability seems to
balance out her restriction of not being able to block vampires bigger
than 4. It's kind of hard just how to judge this, but based on the
other Daughters of Cacophony (Sayshila excepted) and also Panders, it
does seem about right to say that her penalty is worth a point and her
special is worth a point. In addition, her special is less useful since
there are fewer Melpominee cards in existence. So in comparison to
Yseult, Duality seems appropriately costed.


In my personal opinion, being able to draw additional cards is most
valuable: #1. in combat, #2. with action modifiers, #3. with reactions,
#4. with actions. In combat, drawing additional cards often means the
difference of who goes to torpor and you can normally cycle cards
pretty efficiently, even more so with card drawing capability (see
Infernal Pursuit and Learjet). Drawing additional cards with action
modifiers helps you get the action through and is more valuable than
drawing additional cards with reactions because it is proactive rather
than reactive. And obviously, drawing additional cards when playing an
action is limited because it's only a single card you're playing at a
time.

Vicissitude is very much a combat discipline (with 16 combat cards out
of 25 total cards). There are also 5 action modifiers, and I've seen my
share of stealthy bleedy Tzimisce decks relying on Changeling + Plasmic
Form. So all in all, Duality's special seems to make him quite the
combat wombat, and also useful for cycling some stealth as well. I
think his ability serves him far better than Ira's or Yseult's
abilities help them, which is why I would say that he is appropriately
costed.
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chedcan

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Since: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 3



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:11 pm
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Anybody knows if these promos will be available elsewhere or if this
will be second "Angelo incident"?
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Fred Scott

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Since: Nov 16, 2005
Posts: 347



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:41 pm
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"chedcan" <c_chenard.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152749482.947951.19210@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Anybody knows if these promos will be available elsewhere or if this
> will be second "Angelo incident"?

To put it in the terms White Wolf likes to use: Are the vampires
in this magazine "promo-only" vampires or are they basically
3rd Edition preview vampires (which will also be included in
3rd Edition starter packs or boosters)? Did the magazine
say?

Or do the relevant White Wolf personnel lingering in the newsgroup
care to say at this time?

Fred
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Omael

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Since: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 81



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:08 pm
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Remember that Angelo will be in the Tournament Kit from november
chedcan wrote:
> Anybody knows if these promos will be available elsewhere or if this
> will be second "Angelo incident"?
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Pat

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Since: May 11, 2006
Posts: 61



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:05 pm
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"Damnans" <damnansvtes RemoveThis @ono.com> wrote in message
news:1152743410.228616.14800@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> John Flournoy wrote:
>> Stefan Ferenci wrote:
>> > there were 2 promo vamps in the new copy of kartefakt
>> >
>> > Duality
>> > Tzimsce-Sabbat
>> > Group 4
>> >
>> > und
>> > White Lily
>> > MalkavianAnti-Sabbat BH
>> > Group 4
>> >
>
> According to the vekn.de forum, their stats are:
>
> Duality
> Clan: Tzimisce (group 4)
> Capacity: 6
> Disciplines: ani AUS VIC
> Sabbat: When Duality plays a card that requires Vicissitude, you may
> draw an additional card.
>

Hmm... surprised s/he isn't Black Hand in addition... that special doesn't
seem like a 1-pointer.

- Pat
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XZealot

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Since: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 319



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:43 am
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> Afraid about Inner Circle (he doesn't fear Justicar's, if we're talking PTO
> here) disease ?
> Try "Out of the Frying Pan". And it's not like he's afraid of Banishments,
> or as Arika can make him be Obedient...

I am familiar with Enkidu, but compared to Mr. "All that and a bag of
chips" !Malk he isn't that great. Enkidu, potentially, has problems
taking this guy down in a fight (okay, well DotB does hose Mr KooKoo
Gunslinger)

> > Don't even get me started with the !Tremere!
>
> The what ?

Yeah, well see they're this clan of renegade sorcerers that have all
sorts of hot background story, but kind of got kicked in the 'nads by
the canon storyline, so they didn't support them for a coon's age and
then given a space-wedgie in playtest, then was given a swirley by LSJ
as the most interesting vampire Ian Forrestall got nerfed.

.....realIy I'm not bitter.

Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
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Orpheus

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Since: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 283



(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:55 am
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> > > White Lily
> > > Clan: Malkavian antitribu (group 4)
> > > Capacity: 8
> > > Disciplines: DEM OBF for dom cel
> > > Sabbat Black Hand: Once per combat, before range is determined, white
> > > Lily may equip with a weapon from your hand. (Pay cost as normal)
> >
> > Clearly the beneficial Black Hand trait and the detrimental Blood
> > Cursed trait cost the same...
> >
> Possibly they do, but Fatima has 8 points of disciplines compared to
> Lily's 7, and perhaps most notably has CEL compared to Lily's cel. Now,
> Lily's a better bleeder, but Fatima's clearly a much better fighter.

You're right about that. Now, 8-cap is a little expensive for a bleeder, but
being able to Sybil's tongue (an Ivory Bow ?), untap (Freak Drive or Forced
March), bleed, untap once more and rush, then equip with a weapon, is, how
do I say that ? Okay in my book ? Or maybe... PURE DYNAMITE ?!?!

Of course (fortunately ?) the Dom instead of AUS in synergy with DEM will
make it harder to find her the right colleagues. She'll regret never being
able to meet Anatole !

But I think we all had at least 2-3 deck ideas here, depending on who we can
team her up with, didn't we ? Wink
--
Orpheus
-------------------------
"You'll regret being so damn abusive when the electric UFO gods transphase
in from dimension ten to appoint me manager of the universe".

The Drummer, in Planetary.
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echiang777

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Since: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 38



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:31 am
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atomweaver wrote:
> Wow. A day into this announcement, with no one from our side of the pond
> bitching about how *agonizingly* unfair it is (back of palm to forehead)
> that the EU gets access to these two, and we don't. Smile
>
> DZ
> AW
> hopes they're not available in the US for a year...


Yes, and my hope is that in return, we won't be hearing any b*tching
this year about delayed pre-releases, shipping/custom problems, and not
getting the cards at the same time...
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XZealot

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Since: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 319



(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:51 am
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echiang777.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
> Orpheus wrote:
> > > Yeah, well see they're this clan of renegade sorcerers that have all
> > > sorts of hot background story, but kind of got kicked in the 'nads by
> > > the canon storyline, so they didn't support them for a coon's age and
> > > then given a space-wedgie in playtest, then was given a swirley by LSJ
> > > as the most interesting vampire Ian Forrestall got nerfed.
> >
> > What, with his ruling about how he didn't really have those disciplines ? It
> > doesn't make him less playable except for a few cornercase problems (Kiss of
> > Râ...). But you might be talking of something else ? I still love that vamp
> > anyway.
>
>
> Ian's great. One of the few "unique" things about the clan. I also have
> no clue what this nerfing was about.

Your kidding right....

If you jump through though the hoops of fire, dive off the cliffs of
despair and swim past the shreiking eels to Sanguine Instruction Ian he
doesn't gain the superior discipline.

If you climb the highest mountain, swim the deepest sea, and go on a
hunger strike turn him into a Tzimice and play Haven Affinity on him.
It doesn't do anything. <golf clap>

Also, totally unrelated to Ian Forrestal getting smacked around like
one of the Three Stooges, You can't play Infernal Pact on a !Tremere
and then Sanguine Instruction the Infernally Pacted Discipline. I mean
does anyone else see this as just brutally unjust.

Oooh! Where's the humanity?

Comments Welcome.
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
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atomweaver

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Since: Jun 02, 2006
Posts: 79



(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:22 pm
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"Stefan Ferenci" <a9505860 RemoveThis @unet.univie.ac.at> wrote in
news:1152734124.991874.87260@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> there were 2 promo vamps in the new copy of kartefakt
>
> Duality
> Tzimsce-Sabbat
> Group 4
>
> und
> White Lily
> MalkavianAnti-Sabbat BH
> Group 4
>
> exact stats are unkown at the moment
>
>
> stefan
>

Wow. A day into this announcement, with no one from our side of the pond
bitching about how *agonizingly* unfair it is (back of palm to forehead)
that the EU gets access to these two, and we don't. Smile

DZ
AW
hopes they're not available in the US for a year...
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