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Since: Jul 26, 2005
Posts: 139
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:58 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>gurps (more info?)
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In article <a6342d9e-16da-442e-97b5-6019b9ff6e8c RemoveThis @v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Wylie <wylie72 RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>2) My problem with PDFs is all it takes is a computer crash and poor
>back-up habits and it's gone. I'll always prefer hardcopy because it
>will take a housefire or vengeful divorce to loose my books.
e23 will let you re-download everything you've bought from them in the
past so this shouldn't really be a problem even with poor backup
procedures.
What I would have liked to see is a cheaper package deal when you're
buying both the PDF and the hardcopy of a given book. Perhaps
something like this will emerge as the PDF market matures.
Cheers,
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd RemoveThis @pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
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Since: Mar 01, 2006
Posts: 35
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:00 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:50:50 -0800 (PST), Wylie <wylie72.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
wrote:
<re-quoted text snipped>
>two points here:
>
>1) My opinion of GURPS players (Gurpsers?) are that we are not
>exactly a young lot. Most of us I imagine have the funds to buy just
>about every Gurps release just for nostalgia.
After the mortgage, car payments, insurance payments, groceries, clothes
to match the office dress code, contribution to the retirement fund,
etc, there's not a lot of momey to spare in the pockets of us oldsters.
> And regarding the added
>cost of PDFs, I assume too many people get them free off the
>newgroups.
One hopes not... (see below for one reason why.)
> So the differences in cost between three ring binding self
>printed pages vs buying hardcovers is minimal. The time involved in
>doing this involved is actually the greatest cost.
You only have to do that once, and it's usually comparable to the time
spent getting to and from the game store.
> So although I love
>the idea, I could never see myself doing it.
>
>2) My problem with PDFs is all it takes is a computer crash and poor
>back-up habits and it's gone. I'll always prefer hardcopy because it
>will take a housefire or vengeful divorce to loose my books.
Here's that "below" I mentioned: e23.sjgames.com allows multiple
downloads of the same document for any reason or no reason at all, as
long as you've paid for the document. They also allow downloading of
updated (usually errara-corrected) versions of the document for no
additional cost. If you bought the PDFs from SJGames, then "my house
burned down and took the computer with it" is no longer a reason to be
without that part of your gaming collection. (It's only the data
pirates who are more than momentarily inconvenienced by a computer
crash.)
--
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"There's always somebody who's going to hate your work, no matter
how good it is. DON'T LET HIM CHASE YOU AWAY FROM WRITING, BECAUSE
THAT WAY HE WINS." - Robert M. Schroeck, 18 July 2006 |
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Since: Nov 06, 2004
Posts: 30
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:11 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Wylie schrieb:
-snip
> 2) My problem with PDFs is all it takes is a computer crash and poor
> back-up habits and it's gone. I'll always prefer hardcopy because it
> will take a housefire or vengeful divorce to loose my books.
Not to mention that hardcopies are better if you have to bring those
annoying players in line.
"No, there are no guns in this fantasy world."
"But if ..."
WHACK
"I said no."
Bye
Ingo >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: May 22, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:29 am
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 31, 10:53 am, mcv <mcv....DeleteThis@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Ingo Siekmann <Ingo-Siekm....DeleteThis@web.de> wrote:
> > Wylie schrieb:
> > -snip
>
> >> 2) My problem with PDFs is all it takes is a computer crash and poor
> >> back-up habits and it's gone. I'll always prefer hardcopy because it
> >> will take a housefire or vengeful divorce to loose my books.
>
> > Not to mention that hardcopies are better if you have to bring those
> > annoying players in line.
> > "No, there are no guns in this fantasy world."
> > "But if ..."
> > WHACK
> > "I said no."
>
> Perhaps a PC is too big to whack someone with, but surely a laptop
> should work?
>
> mcv.
> --
That's a problem with GURPS, no D20's to fling at people. A D6 is
just not the same...
-wylie >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: May 22, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:32 am
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 31, 11:00 am, mcv <mcv....DeleteThis@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Rob Kelk <robk....DeleteThis@deadspam.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:50:50 -0800 (PST), Wylie <wyli....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> So the differences in cost between three ring binding self
> >>printed pages vs buying hardcovers is minimal. The time involved in
> >>doing this involved is actually the greatest cost.
>
> > You only have to do that once, and it's usually comparable to the time
> > spent getting to and from the game store.
>
> Can you buy GURPS books at your game store? I can't. I need to wait
> until a big con or I order them from W23, which has to deliver them
> to my work because I'm never at home when the delivery guy comes.
>
> mcv.
> --
The last Local Game Store in my area closed last year, but by then it
was pretty much limited to CCGs anyway. You can normally get GURPS on
Amazon at about 2/3 the price, but it takes about a month after a new
title comes out for them to stock it, even with a pre-order. Back
long ago Waldens would order stuff for me if I had the ISBN number,
but I don't know if newer bookstores will.
-wylie >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 493
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:51 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Night-hunter <night-hunter DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Cost of HP C5280 All-in-One printer $130.00
> Cost of HP Ink cartridges for above 74XL/75XL combo @ $60.00
> Cost of Regular Inkjet paper HP 24lb, 96 bright 500 sheets @ $10.00
> Cost of Staples Standard Top Loading Sheet protectors 100 sheets @ $10
> Cost of Staples Better Binder D-ring View Binder 1-1/2" (400 sheet
> capacity) $8.00
>
> I can print, protect, & looseleaf bind for a total cost of about $40 per
> PDF.
How do you get to $40 per pdf? Your average pdf isn't 500 pages.
Printing a PDF on regular paper shouldn't cost more than $0.10 per
double sided page, which means you could print the Basic Set for $30.
But the value of PDF publishing is not in printing 100+ page books,
but in small PDFs with great ideas, like Dungeon Fantasy: Adventurers,
for example. Pay a few dollars for the download, another dollar to
print, $0.02 for a staple, and I've got some brilliant new RPG
material.
Ofcourse big books are much better in good quality hardback.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 493
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ingo Siekmann <Ingo-Siekmann DeleteThis @web.de> wrote:
> Wylie schrieb:
> -snip
>
>> 2) My problem with PDFs is all it takes is a computer crash and poor
>> back-up habits and it's gone. I'll always prefer hardcopy because it
>> will take a housefire or vengeful divorce to loose my books.
>
> Not to mention that hardcopies are better if you have to bring those
> annoying players in line.
> "No, there are no guns in this fantasy world."
> "But if ..."
> WHACK
> "I said no."
Perhaps a PC is too big to whack someone with, but surely a laptop
should work?
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 493
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Bent C Dalager <bcd.RemoveThis@pvv.ntnu.no> wrote:
> In article <a6342d9e-16da-442e-97b5-6019b9ff6e8c.RemoveThis@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> Wylie <wylie72.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>2) My problem with PDFs is all it takes is a computer crash and poor
>>back-up habits and it's gone. I'll always prefer hardcopy because it
>>will take a housefire or vengeful divorce to loose my books.
>
> e23 will let you re-download everything you've bought from them in the
> past so this shouldn't really be a problem even with poor backup
> procedures.
Ofcourse if you switch to a different email address and forget your
login at e23, you've still got a problem. No wait, my browser remembers
my login, so I need about 3 computer crashes, a new email address,
amnesia and someone to throw away the print outs to lose my PDF
purchase.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 493
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Rob Kelk <robkelk RemoveThis @deadspam.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:50:50 -0800 (PST), Wylie <wylie72 RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> So the differences in cost between three ring binding self
>>printed pages vs buying hardcovers is minimal. The time involved in
>>doing this involved is actually the greatest cost.
>
> You only have to do that once, and it's usually comparable to the time
> spent getting to and from the game store.
Can you buy GURPS books at your game store? I can't. I need to wait
until a big con or I order them from W23, which has to deliver them
to my work because I'm never at home when the delivery guy comes.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:47 pm
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> Night-hunter <night-hunter DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Cost of HP C5280 All-in-One printer $130.00
>> Cost of HP Ink cartridges for above 74XL/75XL combo @ $60.00
>> Cost of Regular Inkjet paper HP 24lb, 96 bright 500 sheets @ $10.00
>> Cost of Staples Standard Top Loading Sheet protectors 100 sheets @ $10
>> Cost of Staples Better Binder D-ring View Binder 1-1/2" (400 sheet
>> capacity) $8.00
>>
>> I can print, protect, & looseleaf bind for a total cost of about $40 per
>> PDF.
mcv wrote:
> How do you get to $40 per pdf? Your average pdf isn't 500 pages.
>
I was guestimating at 250 pages printing ($5)+ 250 sheet protectors
($25)+ Binder ($10). Of course this doesn't include the cost of ink,
index sheets or tabs, depreciation on the printer, etc.
> Printing a PDF on regular paper shouldn't cost more than $0.10 per
> double sided page, which means you could print the Basic Set for $30.
>
> But the value of PDF publishing is not in printing 100+ page books,
> but in small PDFs with great ideas, like Dungeon Fantasy: Adventurers,
> for example. Pay a few dollars for the download, another dollar to
> print, $0.02 for a staple, and I've got some brilliant new RPG
> material.
>
> Of course big books are much better in good quality hardback.
>
Hardbound is OK. BUT, like the softbound, the pages get loose and tend
to fall out with wear. Normal result- I take it apart & put it in sheet
protectors in a 3-ring binder, -then add the indexes etc. The softbound
3ed Revised became a notebook some years ago. Magic and Grimoire share a
notebook at this point. My original hardbound Basic Set Third Edition
(3rd printing), however, I've used cloth tape on the exterior binding to
hold it together "just a little longer", but the inside binding is now
shot as well. After all, it's approaching 19 years old with real close
to weekly use. And some weeks it was used daily! The first character I
created with it is dated 3 March 1989.
Here's to good gaming and good gaming tools!
Roger >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 31, 9:51 am, mcv <mcv....RemoveThis@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Night-hunter <night-hun....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Cost of HP C5280 All-in-One printer $130.00
> > Cost of HP Ink cartridges for above 74XL/75XL combo @ $60.00
> > Cost of Regular Inkjet paper HP 24lb, 96 bright 500 sheets @ $10.00
> > Cost of Staples Standard Top LoadingSheetprotectors100 sheets @ $10
> > Cost of Staples Better Binder D-ring View Binder 1-1/2" (400sheet
> > capacity) $8.00
>
> > I can print, protect, & looseleaf bind for a total cost of about $40 per
> > PDF.
>
> How do you get to $40 per pdf? Your average pdf isn't 500 pages.
>
> Printing a PDF on regular paper shouldn't cost more than $0.10 per
> double sided page, which means you could print the Basic Set for $30.
>
> But the value of PDF publishing is not in printing 100+ page books,
> but in small PDFs with great ideas, like Dungeon Fantasy: Adventurers,
> for example. Pay a few dollars for the download, another dollar to
> print, $0.02 for a staple, and I've got some brilliant new RPG
> material.
>
> Ofcourse big books are much better in good quality hardback.
>
> mcv.
> --
> Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
> A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
> could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
> of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
Hey guys, if you want to save a few dollars you could buy the sheet
protectors from the company I work for. Heavy weight starts at only
$10.76 and standard weight at $7.29 and of cause we offer discount on
larger quantities basicly 600 pages or more. Shipping is free in the
lower 48 states on orders $30.- or more and no taxes.
We also got half page (5.5 x 8.5) sheet protectors for quick reference
manuals.
Good luck with your books.
Ken - keepfiling. com >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 55
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:29 am
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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mcv <mcvmcv.DeleteThis@xs4all.nl> writes:
> > Not to mention that hardcopies are better if you have to bring those
> > annoying players in line.
> > "No, there are no guns in this fantasy world."
> > "But if ..."
> > WHACK
> > "I said no."
>
> Perhaps a PC is too big to whack someone with, but surely a laptop
> should work?
A laptop with *no* PDFs on it would work just as well.
--
\ "Unix is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, |
`\ Windows is a shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus." |
_o__) —Peter H. Coffin |
Ben Finney >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 55
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:30 am
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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mcv <mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl> writes:
> Can you buy GURPS books at your game store? I can't.
They can surely order them in from SJG if you ask, no?
--
\ "I busted a mirror and got seven years bad luck, but my lawyer |
`\ thinks he can get me five." —Steven Wright |
_o__) |
Ben Finney >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:30 am
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:30:41 +1100, Ben Finney
<bignose+hates-spam@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>mcv <mcvmcv DeleteThis @xs4all.nl> writes:
>
>> Can you buy GURPS books at your game store? I can't.
>
>They can surely order them in from SJG if you ask, no?
My game store couldn't or wouldn't. They dealt with a distributor
with a distinct lack of commitment to GURPS. >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 55
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:39 am
Post subject: Re: new and upcoming [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David Johnston <david.RemoveThis@block.net> writes:
> On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:30:41 +1100, Ben Finney
> <bignose+hates-spam@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> >They can surely order them in from SJG if you ask, no?
>
> My game store couldn't or wouldn't. They dealt with a distributor
> with a distinct lack of commitment to GURPS.
That sounds like a case that SJG would be interested in pursuing. I
recall they've been quite vocal that if you can't get SJG stock from
your local game store, they want to speak with the distributor about
it.
--
\ "Listen: we are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody |
`\ tell you otherwise." —_Timequake_, Kurt Vonnegut |
_o__) |
Ben Finney >> Stay informed about: new and upcoming |
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