having trouble playing LotN starters

On Feb 1, 8:05 am, Teeka <teeka_dra... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> As it turned out, we didn't have a clue on how to play the Assamite
> and Giovanni starters from LotN. The only one we did 'get' is the
> Guruhi one. We also know the !Ven one isn't really that good out of
> the box, but we already altered it a bit with some extra pool gain and
> weapons, so it can pack some more punch. The LotN ones were the
> problem.

Because of the prerelease events, we often see precon vs. precon
within the same set. It's less clear how to adjust the precons when
playing against a larger field.

That being said, I've heard a number of players suggest taking out the
weapons in the Giovanni precon. I'd also look to reduce the combat
element in the Assamite deck and only add combat back in if the deck
still seemed to be missing something.

All four of the LotN precons can stealth bleed and that's a pretty
good basis for a functional deck. Removing the clutter should help.
 >> Stay informed about: having trouble playing LotN starters 

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008, Teeka wrote:

> This was the seating order: Assamite (LotN) -> !Ven (SW)-> Giovanni
> (LotN) -> Guruhi

Are you just playing these starters out of the box? If so, I can see how
they'd be confusing. The Assamite deck has a lot of rushing and stuff
which isn't going to be very effective because it's really hard to burn
vampires in combat and the rushing isn't usually going to cause much
direct pool damage (you have Frontal Assault and Dragonbound, but neither
will be easy to pull off). On top of that, you have either big minions
that can't get a lot done by their lonesome or you have smaller guys who
can't do everything you want them to do.

I played the Assamite deck at a pre-release and tweaked it by pulling a
lot of the rushing out and putting in some more copies of Loss and a
couple Reckless Agitation as well as some additional stealth. The deck
was still a little weak on defense, but had a lot of direct pool-damaging
potential. Major improvement, I think.

The Giovanni deck is even worse, IMO. It is really action-heavy. If you
add up the actions, allies, equipment and politics, you have 36 out of 77
cards. That is a really high percentage. With only two wakes, you
basically get the option of staying untapped with a hand full of actions
or tapping out to do stuff and just letting your predator walk all over
you.

That's not a great place to be. On the positive side, the Giovanni deck
has 3x Conditioning, 2x Dominate Kine, 3x Reckless Agitation and 4x
Shambling Hordes as well as a reasonable amount of stealth to make that
happen. There are also 4x Murmer of the False Will, which is pretty good
in that format. Everything else is just chaff, especially the combat.
Drop it and watch the deck hum.

Matt Morgan
 >> Stay informed about: having trouble playing LotN starters 

> This was the seating order: Assamite (LotN) -> !Ven (SW)-> Giovanni
> (LotN) -> Guruhi

I'd say you really didn't pick the easiest starters for... starters !!!

Feel free to ask advice here ! Of course it's up to you to choose what you
play, but really the choice of some of the most difficult clans + strategies
and maybe not the best-built starters ever won't make your games easier.

There are sites with advice on what to do with Assamites (one of the most
difficult clans to play) and Giovanni but they are based on all cards
available, and I'm afraid that none of the two can be very competitive
without adding some essential, non-booster cards.

Good luck !
--
Orpheus
-----------
"Go on. (...) Destroy the fabric of space and time. See if I care. "

-- Terry Pratchett
 >> Stay informed about: having trouble playing LotN starters 

On Feb 1, 11:05 am, Teeka <teeka_dra... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> As you know, I only play with a small group of friends, on a very
> irregular basis. Because of this, none of us are any good, and it's
> safe to say we don't quite get all the tactical possibilities (yet).
>
> Yesterday we played a very very slow game, where lots of times we
> weren't really sure what to do. For this game, we just used a few
> precons (as a lot of the time, most of us lack the time to build a
> deck beforehand).
> As it turned out, we didn't have a clue on how to play the Assamite
> and Giovanni starters from LotN. The only one we did 'get' is the
> Guruhi one. We also know the !Ven one isn't really that good out of
> the box, but we already altered it a bit with some extra pool gain and
> weapons, so it can pack some more punch. The LotN ones were the
> problem.
>
> Of course it's possible that we all just had bad luck drawing, and
> perhaps you have to excuse us for missing the obvious. But still,
> could someone please give me a short how-to for these two decks, as
> in: which vampires should I try to get out first, what does a typical
> turn or combat for the deck look like (given a good draw, of course),
> what should I do in the first few turns and how do I actually 'win',
> what cards are meant to be played in a specific order, etc?
>
> This was the seating order: Assamite (LotN) -> !Ven (SW)-> Giovanni
> (LotN) -> Guruhi
>
> Thanks!
>
> Teeka
> -newbie4life

On www.thepathofblood.com,I track my experiences in limited league
play with the LotN Assamite starter.The thread is titled "Limited
League Play", I think.

After playing it for a while (slightly modified), I find it is a
classic toolbox - it has just enough of everything to not be very good
at anything. Even the combat is lacking, though it does have a nut-
punchy combo potential with Selective Silece/Taste of Death and WWS/
BBT.

The star vamp if you want to bleed is Thucimia. Dmitri Borodin is the
better bruiser. Kashan is playable every game. You really need QUI to
make the deck work, because both Loss and Blood Awakening are better
at superior.

My advice is to try to get 2 vamps up with QUI if you can. If you
have Thu, don't push the combat, look to combo up a Loss bleed with
some stealth, use her special, and do as much Pool damage as you can.

If you get Dmitri, his +stealth and prevent special make him a good
rusher, and he can play that lone Truth of Blood at superior. I find
my vampires end up in torpor just as often as the bad guys, so I don't
use the Dragonbound.
 >> Stay informed about: having trouble playing LotN starters 

Having taken a look at the LoTN starters as they were, I confirm that the
FoS are very playable, the Ravnos a little less so, the Giovanni and
Assamites not so much !! This being said, the last three could gain a lot by
removing useless cards in the first place ; then, if you're willing to buy a
second starter of each (that is, if you really don't want to get into
boosters) you'll be able to make much better decks !!

So please let us know it you're ready to make that extra expense, because if
you do I / we will be able to recommend some decklists for you.

--

Orpheus
-----------------------
I'm dead serious ! Well, mostly dead...
 >> Stay informed about: having trouble playing LotN starters 

On Feb 2, 11:12 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus....RemoveThis@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote:
> Having taken a look at the LoTN starters as they were, I confirm that the
> FoS are very playable, the Ravnos a little less so, the Giovanni and
> Assamites not so much !! This being said, the last three could gain a lot by
> removing useless cards in the first place ; then, if you're willing to buy a
> second starter of each (that is, if you really don't want to get into
> boosters) you'll be able to make much better decks !!
>
> So please let us know it you're ready to make that extra expense, because if
> you do I / we will be able to recommend some decklists for you.
>
> --
>
> Orpheus
> -----------------------
> I'm dead serious ! Well, mostly dead...

You really believe that the Ravnos deck is better than the Giovanni
and Assamite?

I find it unplayable. I also tried using it as a source for
constructed decks and ended up using few of the cards, especially the
vampires who have terrible synergy with each other and the library or
are just flat out bad.
 >> Stay informed about: having trouble playing LotN starters 

> You really believe that the Ravnos deck is better than the Giovanni
> and Assamite?
>
> I find it unplayable. I also tried using it as a source for
> constructed decks and ended up using few of the cards, especially the
> vampires who have terrible synergy with each other and the library or
> are just flat out bad.

Honestly, I have never played it as such, and haven't examined it
thoroughly.

The vampires in the starters are all sub-optimal, I think that's because of
the 6x2 repartition (which I'm happy about on a pure consumer viewpoint).
But the giovanni are worst than most, if only for Francis "No-Dom" Milliner
x 2. The fight part is pretty useless in both, in the Giovanni because to be
really efficient you'll need one of 2 Immortal Grapples to counter the
numerous S:CE in the FoS starter, + you have all those concealed + weapons,
all those strikes, and those 4 Shamblings, in other terms the fight is way
too toolboxy to be effective. The Ravnos too has a very big - if not-that
useful- combat section. And it's not like it will enter combat easily with
just those 3 Raven Spies to try to block and no rush, so maybe you're right
on that account.

I just felt that the multi-actions, the bleed possibilities (including some
permanent, the Week...) and the bothersome cards (Nightmare Curse, Edged
Illusion...) could have some synergy.

But really, I'd take out many cards before even attempting to play it.

The FoS is the only one were mostly everything is at least sorta playable as
it stands.

And yet, I seem to recall that in the pre-release (which I didn't do as I
was in another tournament that day) the Assamites were the big winners ? Or
am I mistaken ?

Anyway, for Teeka's sake, I think that the important part to remember is
"buy another set of starters, ditch half the cards and double the rest" !
--
Orpheus
-----------
"Go on. (...) Destroy the fabric of space and time. See if I care. "

-- Terry Pratchett
 >> Stay informed about: having trouble playing LotN starters