what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?

"Mark (newsgroups)" wrote:
>
> Of course you aren't. There isn't much you're pleased about in WoW.

Thanks SO much for THAT contribution.

--
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

In article <479A3C0C.6CCE85AF.DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca>,
RogerM <roger.mckay.DeleteThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

> "Mark (newsgroups)" wrote:
> >
> > Of course you aren't. There isn't much you're pleased about in WoW.
>
> Thanks SO much for THAT contribution.

If all you can do is be Mr. Negative, people will tend to give up on
you. You'll get negative replies in response if at all.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

chocolatemalt wrote:
>
> In article <479A3C0C.6CCE85AF.RemoveThis@ns.sympatico.ca>,
> RogerM <roger.mckay.RemoveThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > "Mark (newsgroups)" wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course you aren't. There isn't much you're pleased about in WoW.
> >
> > Thanks SO much for THAT contribution.
>
> If all you can do is be Mr. Negative, people will tend to give up on
> you. You'll get negative replies in response if at all.

If that is the quality of reply, then none would be just fine.

--
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:44:29 -0800 (PST), lcpltom <lcpltom RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:

>The one attempt I made on heroic SH ended in failure that was blamed
>on me even though the real failure was with the tank. It was a guild
>group who pugged out the last open spot, to me. The tank was arms/
>fury specced and couldn't hold aggro through even minimal damage from
>me or the priests healing. Eventually the guild decided it wasn't
>going to work because we didn't have enough CC, i.e. my CC wasn't
>enough. Easy to blame the 1 person who wasn't in their guild I
>suppose.

Try it with a paladin tank, it's easy then, only done it once and it was
almost like on normal, the group was so good. We only had one CC, as the
group iirc was 2 paladins, a shaman, a mage and my priest, but the only
wipe was on the last boss.

>Heroic BM I have successfully done twice. I find it to be easy so
>long as people know and are capable of doing their jobs. 2 DPS need
>to provide enough DPS to make up for the person on adds. Player on
>adds needs to make sure to stay close enough to the healer to receive
>heals when they need it. Healer needs to position himself such that
>the player on adds can pick them up and not have to kite them so he
>can be within range of the healer. Combine that with a tank that can
>hold aggro on the rift lords and heroic BM comes not much harder than
>normal BM.

As a healer heroic BM is the hardest one I have done. Simply because
everyone takes enormous damage, it's very very hard to keep up with it.
Tacticswise it's easy, sure, but outhealing the damagewise it's a total and
utter pain. And I did it in a good group with the best tank I know, so
can't even blame anyone else for it being so tough!
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On 2008-01-25 17:18:24 +0100, gerryq <gerryq RemoveThis @indigo.ie> said:

> Shattered Halls heroic is not very hard if your team is well-geared
> and knows what to expect.
>
> I suspect the hardest heroic is *meant* to be Arcatraz, but I have not
> tried it on heroic yet. The trash in normal Arca is pretty tough,
> although the bosses are not except for the last one. I seem to recall
> reading on Wowwiki or somewhere that the last boss in Arca Heroic is
> L73, which would be some indication that it is intended as the
> hardest. Also, it seems to be the last quest on the "Trials of the
> Naaru" series.

At level 70, *all* bosses are level 73. A boss-tagged mob always
behaves like a mob 3 levels above you when it comes down to chance to
hit and resistances.

> That doesn't necessarily mean it's the hardest in practice, though.

I wouldn't know the hardest heroic end-boss, but in an attempt to
answer the OP's question: The current end-game boss is Illidan,
end-boss of the BT, the hardest raid instances out there atm.
--
-=- http://www.dagon-roots.com/ -=-
Nerghal - Undead Warlock L70 - Bloodscalp EU
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

In article <fnd5h0$8cq$1@aioe.org>, Jack D <jack_221NOSP.RemoveThis@Mhotmail.com>
wrote:

> On 2008-01-25 17:18:24 +0100, gerryq <gerryq.RemoveThis@indigo.ie> said:
>
> > Shattered Halls heroic is not very hard if your team is well-geared
> > and knows what to expect.
> >
> > I suspect the hardest heroic is *meant* to be Arcatraz, but I have not
> > tried it on heroic yet. The trash in normal Arca is pretty tough,
> > although the bosses are not except for the last one. I seem to recall
> > reading on Wowwiki or somewhere that the last boss in Arca Heroic is
> > L73, which would be some indication that it is intended as the
> > hardest. Also, it seems to be the last quest on the "Trials of the
> > Naaru" series.
>
> At level 70, *all* bosses are level 73. A boss-tagged mob always
> behaves like a mob 3 levels above you when it comes down to chance to
> hit and resistances.

No, the heroic bosses behave as level 72. If Skyriss is 73 that would
be an exception.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On 2008-01-23 21:37:00 +0100, pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) said:

> kerri.RemoveThis@spamsucks.com writes:
>> we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
>> enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
>> no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)
>
> In most ways, this is true. The absolute WORST part of the old world raids
> was that loot dropped that was usable by only one class, so you could
> easily go every week for most of a year and not get your whole set. Molten
> core took me only 12 weeks because I was the only warlock in the guild that
> didn't have felheart already.

That, and the fact that the encounters in Molten Bore were so
unimaginative (compared to what they design now), it becomes quite
repetitive and boring fast.

> BWL took much longer - I got my last piece
> two weeks before BC went live, after going to BWL since June. BWL is a
> great raid though - easily the best designed of all the old world ones.

I tend to disagree, I prefered it over AQ40 (by far), but it was
nowhere near the quality of Naxx. Many still consider it to be the best
designed instance ever in the game. I never cleared the entire
instance, but I am definitely looking forward to getting back in there
in WoTLK and finish the stuff we never got round to...

In TBC my favorite encounter so far is Kael'thas. We wiped for weeks on
it, and it never ever got tedious to attempt him again. Afaik he is on
the same level as most stuff in Naxx.
--
-=- http://www.dagon-roots.com/ -=-
Nerghal - Undead Warlock L70 - Bloodscalp EU
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

In article <fnd5qq$9c5$1@aioe.org>, Jack D <jack_221NOSP.RemoveThis@Mhotmail.com>
wrote:

> On 2008-01-23 21:37:00 +0100, pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) said:
>
> > kerri.RemoveThis@spamsucks.com writes:
> >> we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is
> >> more
> >> enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I
> >> have
> >> no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)
> >
> > In most ways, this is true. The absolute WORST part of the old world raids
> > was that loot dropped that was usable by only one class, so you could
> > easily go every week for most of a year and not get your whole set. Molten
> > core took me only 12 weeks because I was the only warlock in the guild that
> > didn't have felheart already.
>
> That, and the fact that the encounters in Molten Bore were so
> unimaginative (compared to what they design now), it becomes quite
> repetitive and boring fast.

Lol! Molten Bore! I must be weird but I loved that place, never really
got enough of it. But then I never quite got to Exalted (just a few
thousand short) with Hydraxian Waterlords so maybe I didn't grind it as
much as some people here.

> > BWL took much longer - I got my last piece
> > two weeks before BC went live, after going to BWL since June. BWL is a
> > great raid though - easily the best designed of all the old world ones.
>
> I tend to disagree, I prefered it over AQ40 (by far), but it was
> nowhere near the quality of Naxx. Many still consider it to be the best
> designed instance ever in the game. I never cleared the entire
> instance, but I am definitely looking forward to getting back in there
> in WoTLK and finish the stuff we never got round to...

I never got past the first two bosses in AQ40 or a few trash pulls in
Naxx. /cry

I agree with PV that BWL was nicely done. It was not only fun to fight
but a nice culmination to a long story line involving so many quests in
the Burning Steppes, BRD, LBRS, UBRS, MC... Onyxia! Great stuff. And
how better to top off that story than a high tower full of massive
dragons? Great design, and I definitely miss those raids.

> In TBC my favorite encounter so far is Kael'thas. We wiped for weeks on
> it, and it never ever got tedious to attempt him again. Afaik he is on
> the same level as most stuff in Naxx.

My guild is only one boss away from meeting Kael, maybe we'll one-shot
him! Uh... yeah! We did manage to two-shot a lot of other stuff like
Void Reaver and Hydross. For a guild of greenies (maybe three of us had
experience on other characters) to wipe once then succeed on a new boss
seems pretty good. We've been warned about Kael though.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:42:00 -0800 (PST), lcpltom <lcpltom.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Paladins, at least on my realm, seem to resist speccing prot. Most of
>them are around a 40/21 holy/prot spec, for healing instances or doing
>battlegrounds and arenas. Then there is the ret paladins as the next
>most common, but prot paladins are really rare. Its really sad too
>because the easiest 5-mans I have ever done were with a prot paladin
>and just AoEing groups down.

That's a shame, I love a prot pally tank, they make instance with large
groups really fun. Luckily there's a lot of them around on the horde side
of my server, and a couple in my guild on alliance who I've worked with a
lot, so I've probably done more groups with pally tanks than anything else
- love them

>My first SH run, on normal, was with a prot pally. I didn't realize
>how hard that instance actually was till I tried it with a druid
>tank. Now if I could find a prot pally geared for heroics, that would
>be great.

Hehe yeah, my first experience of healing SH was with a pug druid that
couldn't hold aggro... I hated the place until I went with a prot pally and
found how fun it was, we even survived when he messed up an avengers shield
and pulled about 9 mobs instead of his intended 3-4
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 4:58 pm, lcpltom <lcpl... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 11:18 am, gerryq <ger... RemoveThis @indigo.ie> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 25, 11:48 am, "steve.kaye" <nos... RemoveThis @giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On 25 Jan, 11:01, RogerM <roger.mc... RemoveThis @ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > > Aboo wrote:
>
> > > > > There is, it's called Heroics.  And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
> > > > > is better that what you can get out ofKara, at least the first half
> > > > > ofKara.
>
> > > > Then it's not end-game.Karagear is far from the best in the game.
>
> > > End-game is what you make of it.  If you choose to limit yourself (for
> > > whatever reason) to 5 man PvE content then heroics are your end-game.
> > > If you want to PvP then I guess your end-game is in the arena.  If you
> > > want to raid then that is your end-game.
>
> > > > What is the end-game final boss?
>
> > > I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> > > the hardest heroic instance.  (I don't know what that is as I've only
> > > done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)
>
> > Shattered Halls heroic is not very hard if your team is well-geared
> > and knows what to expect.
>
> > I suspect the hardest heroic is *meant* to be Arcatraz, but I have not
> > tried it on heroic yet.  The trash in normal Arca is pretty tough,
> > although the bosses are not except for the last one.  I seem to recall
> > reading on Wowwiki or somewhere that the last boss in Arca Heroic is
> > L73, which would be some indication that it is intended as the
> > hardest.  Also, it seems to be the last quest on the "Trials of the
> > Naaru" series.
>
> > That doesn't necessarily mean it's the hardest in practice, though.
>
> > - Gerry Quinn
>
> I thought the last quest for the Trials of the Naaru chain was to down
> Mag

It is. But of the four heroics he sends you too first, it is the last
on his list, though he gives you the quests at the same time.

The four heroics are SH, SL, SV and Arca. Certainly these are all
among the hardest, though DK and BM are pretty tough too.

- Gerry Quinn
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On 28 Jan, 09:26, Barry Freeman <b... RemoveThis @nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:42:00 -0800 (PST), lcpltom <lcpl... RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Paladins, at least on my realm, seem to resist speccing prot.  Most of
> >them are around a 40/21 holy/prot spec, for healing instances or doing
> >battlegrounds and arenas.  Then there is the ret paladins as the next
> >most common, but prot paladins are really rare.  Its really sad too
> >because the easiest 5-mans I have ever done were with a prot paladin
> >and just AoEing groups down.
>
> Thats one reason I decided to spec prot for the start... expecting a
> hard slog, much like the prot warrors.
>
> Happily, prot pallies are really easy to level..so I'm a happy bunny,
> and I enjoy the tanking experience now I have suitable gear, at least
> for 5 mans.
>
> The hard bit is accepting that if you don't get aggro from the start,
> it's a hell of a job to get it back.
>
> Once you have it, you can pretty much keep it, but I dread the "sheep
> pull" because if I miss one of the consequent group with a consecrate
> then the mage will have company.

I was in group with a pally tank at the weekend. He wasn't the most
experienced tank and he had never been in the instance before (The
Mechanar - it was my first time too). Two of the group members really
weren't helping him though as they were hitting too soon. They often
had aggro before the tank got hit even once. I explained to them that
it is very important for a pally to get initial aggro as they generate
threat by being hit (the pally wasn't confident enough to stick up
for himself in this regard). It went a bit better after that but the
run was hindered by the two of us not knowing the instance and the
main leader of the group only explaining what we should have done
after it went wrong.

I'd group with him again but I doubt the other two would have as they
were probably under the impression that it was his fault more than
theirs.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 12:34 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS....RemoveThis@totalise.co.uk>
wrote:

> As a healer heroic BM is the hardest one I have done. Simply because
> everyone takes enormous damage, it's very very hard to keep up with it.

I finally got around to getting my Paladin Kara-attuned last week, and
found healing BM on normal hard enough.

Never once been to OHB or BM before. I found the Thrall escort fairly
easy, actually, but that Dark Portal quest in BM was something else
entirely. We had a Pally tank, who didn't keep aggro very well, 2 Arms
Warriors, a Hunter and my Paladin.

I didn't know the quest at all, and when I asked for clarification, I
was told, "Just heal". Next thing I know, folks are running all over
the place, everyone is taking damage, and since half my gear is still
S1 PvP stuff that has no MP5, I ran OOM a lot. I have +1,460 healing,
which I understand is pretty good for never having gone to Kara, and I
still found it HARD. AoE effects, periodic stuns on that last boss. I
have no HoTs, no group heals, no (decent) instant heals. I really felt
the weaknesses of my class during this battle.

At one point I nearly lost the Pally tank - could not figure out why
my heals weren't doing anything. Later I researched the fight and
learned about the debuff that one boss casts that reduces healing by
as much as 100%. Doh.

Fortunately not only did we not wipe once, but not one person died.
But I can only imagine what a nightmare that pace must be in Heroic.
Yikes!

--
Jill
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 10:42:00 -0800 (PST), lcpltom <lcpltom.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Paladins, at least on my realm, seem to resist speccing prot. Most of
>them are around a 40/21 holy/prot spec, for healing instances or doing
>battlegrounds and arenas. Then there is the ret paladins as the next
>most common, but prot paladins are really rare. Its really sad too
>because the easiest 5-mans I have ever done were with a prot paladin
>and just AoEing groups down.

Thats one reason I decided to spec prot for the start... expecting a
hard slog, much like the prot warrors.

Happily, prot pallies are really easy to level..so I'm a happy bunny,
and I enjoy the tanking experience now I have suitable gear, at least
for 5 mans.

The hard bit is accepting that if you don't get aggro from the start,
it's a hell of a job to get it back.

Once you have it, you can pretty much keep it, but I dread the "sheep
pull" because if I miss one of the consequent group with a consecrate
then the mage will have company.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?