what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?

On Feb 1, 1:53 pm, Marcel <mar....DeleteThis@marcel.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:59:10 GMT, deathsab....DeleteThis@yahoo.com.au (Ashen
>
>
>
> Shugar) wrote:
> >I think it was Marcel <mar....DeleteThis@marcel.invalid> that wrote something
> >like...
>
> >>On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:22:43 GMT, deathsab....DeleteThis@yahoo.com.au (Ashen
> >>Shugar) wrote:
>
> >>>Heheh, yup, threat meter's only take the fun out of the game if you
> >>>let em! Trash fights, it shouldn't matter if you steal agro. The
> >>>tank should be able to taunt the mob back soon enough, and it'll give
> >>>the tanks threat a boost too, so the other dps can let lose a bit
> >>>more. The only time you really want to pay *serious* attention to a
> >>>threat meter is if the mob can't be taunted. Or if you're in a
> >>>totally anal guild that's going to freak if you pull agro no matter
> >>>what the situation. ; )
>
> >>Taunt gives the tank just enough threat to pull the mob of the person
> >>who stole aggro.
> >>Besides that it doesn't really boost and/or create threat.
> >>It's more like getting attention back from a mob for three seconds in
> >>which you need to build up aggro asap again.
>
> >Not exactly. You get *complete* attention back from the mob after
> >which you only need to keep in front of everyone else.
>
> Only ?
> Depending on the people/classes in the party/raid staying in front
> might not be that easy as it sounds here.
>
> >Now if a mage
> >got right to the limit of pulling agro them PoM Pyro-critted the mob,
> >then the tank would get the threat of 5K or whatever damage for the
> >low low cost of 0 rage if you're a warrior (and taunt wasn't resisted,
> >but who in their right mind isn't stacking +hit and making that rather
> >unlikely? And unless we're talking bosses, where the dps is likely to
> >be more careful, there are still thing's like concussion blow,
> >hamstring and mocking blow if you're up for stance dancing to keep the
> >mobs busy while you're waiting for another chance to taunt)
>
> Who in their right mind IS stacking +hit as a tank ?
> Unless your above T4 level a tank will be focussing on defense and
> stamina.
>
> >Anyway, while yeah, the mage will still only need another 30% threat
> >to pull agro again (though that 30% is going to be more real threat
> >than it was before) all the other dps are going to need a LOT more
> >real threat to pull agro that they did just seconds ago.
>
> Dots anyone ?
>
> >>Biggest downside of loosing aggro to someone in a raid/party is the
> >>time between loosing the mob and getting it back.
> >>In that little bit of time especially the ranged people will most
> >>likely continue to attack increasing their threat as well.
>
> >But once you do successfully taunt, it doesn't matter how much threat
> >you missed out on generating by yourself, as you've stolen all the
> >threat that the person that pulled agro had generated, which was
> >obviously more than you were generating. ; )
>
> Dots anyone ?
> You're just talking about that one person but in a party/raid there's
> more people involved.
> Depending on how lucky/unlucky you are and what you're facing that bit
> of time might be enough for eg a warlock to come real close.
> Put in some crits and you have another one pulling more aggro just
> after the taunt.
>
> >>And last but not least, mobs can resist taunt as well and it has at
> >>least 8 sec cooldown (depending on the spec)
>
> >Answered that above. Any situation where it's going to be a big deal,
> >boss fights, heroics, raids, then the dps are likely to be paying more
> >attention. But in my experience, (that being most stuff up to Kara),
> >it's not likely to be a serious problem.
>
> Most stuff up to kara and you're talking stacking +hit a bit earlier ?
> Makes me wonder what gear we're talking about since there isn't much
> making it easy to stack +hit at that moment in the game.

The great thing about dots is their threat generation is very slow.
Its the DD spells which push the threat to a point where the dots
might pull aggro. If aggro is pulled and the only spells I have on
the target are dots, I'm still doing damage, but at such a slow rate
that the tank has an easier time pulling aggro back off me.

The exception to this are dots that don't spread their damage out
evenly. Curse of Agony starts out doing little damage, and each tick
becomes progressively stronger. The last tick of CoA is almost like
hitting with a small nuke. Likewise with Curse of Doom, it doesn't do
any damage until 60 seconds later, at which point it can hit for a lot
depending on the current debuffs on a target (Curse of Shadows, Imp
Shadow Bolt procs, and shadow priest debuffs ftw). If during that
time shadow bolts are being spammed, keeping threat near the tanks,
that one spell can upset the whole balance. If I pull aggro right
before CoD procs, forget about getting aggro back.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

I think it was Barry Freeman <bazz RemoveThis @nospam.co.uk> that wrote something
like...

>On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:33:08 +0100, Marcel <marcel RemoveThis @marcel.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>Taunt gives the tank just enough threat to pull the mob of the person
>>who stole aggro.
>
>No, it give the tank the SAME threat as the current top of the threat
>list.

Yup.

>The tank must do something to increase his threat to pull the mob off
>it's current target.

Actually, that how it used to be. The taunt debuff would keep the
mobs focused on the taunter until it wore off, then unless they had
managed to get 10% more threat, the mob would go back to who they were
attacking. Not all that long ago it was changed though, so while the
taunt debuff would still force the mob to focus on the taunter for the
duration of the debuff, when the debuff wore off, the taunter would
still be the mobs main focus, and the other people would have reach
the 110% and the 130% thresholds to pull agro off them. Though for a
warrior, it's only taunt that works that way. Mocking blow as I
recall, doesn't actually change your level of threat, just forces the
mob to focus on your for the duration.

Ashen Shugar
--
The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule!
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Zil wrote:
> PV <pv+usenet@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Healers need threatmeters MORE than many classes, because it's very easy
>> for them to overtake the tank early in the pull, and have to know when it's
>> safe to lay down big heals.
>
> I'm afraid I agree with Catriona here. It's obviously easier to pull healing
> aggro earlier in the fight, which is why Prayer Of Mending is so handy (giving
> the tank the healing aggro). And once you're 2 or 3 seconds into the pull,
> assuming you have a reasonably competant tank, it'd be hard for the healer
> to out-threat the tank, even if they wanted to.

yep, nice for a priest. Just not for the other 3 healing classes. Who
actually also don't have fade.
Yes, I play a shaman, no earthshield isn't enough on many fights and I
may have to start with big heals right away (robots in Mecha, anyone?).

What about multi mob pulls? It's pretty easy to get healing aggro there.
Especially if you have to stand close to a tank (i.e. 10% aggro range).

Threatmeters allow me to live in about 5-10% more encounters, because
sometimes you can adjust your healing a bit.

Yes, healers don't mostly need threat meters for themselves. But you
need it so the whole group gets a complete overview. You don't want
them, just don't show them.

>> A lot of what you're saying seems to come from a lack of understanding how
>> the tool works.
>
> Completely the opposite. Because I understad the game mechanics and how a
> threat meter works I'd feel perfectly safe as a priest without a threat meter
> (not as a dps class though!). As it is, I *do* have Omen, but I can't recall
> the last time I needed to check the display.

the display isn't important as a healer in general. But I'm pretty happy
about getting messages like "you just crossed 90% of $tanks threat" and
some drums added to it.


Also, on fights we're pretty much outgearing I dps a bit, so I'll
certainly can use it there.

Urs

--
Mano - Orc Shaman 70 - Mining & Jewelcrafter
Myno - Tauren Bear 70 - Skinning & Herbalism
Ratoma- Troll Rogue 28 - (Dis)Enchantress
Melony - Human Mage 16
and various others
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Barry Freeman <bazz.DeleteThis@nospam.co.uk> wrote:

> The tank must do something to increase his threat to pull the mob off
> it's current target.

And against dots this could be a pain in the ass...
--
Candido
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

gerryq wrote:
> On Jan 31, 6:20 pm, chocolatemalt <myothern....RemoveThis@dim.com.removethis>
> wrote:
>> In article <dM1aPICnsdoHF....RemoveThis@dont.spam.me>,
>
>> You can get away without threat meters in 5-mans, heroics, and even
>> Karazhan for the most part. But you won't get any further than that.
>> Maybe that's fine for your guild, but for those who are more ambitious
>> about seeing game content there really isn't a choice about it.
>>
>> From Gruul (and Maul'gar even) onwards you can no longer tolerate DPS
>> classes doing 400 DPS or less, because your tanks and healers won't make
>> it or the boss will hit that 10-minute enrage counter with 30% health
>> left and you've hit your brick wall. It's not hard for the DPS'ers to
>> get their gear, skills, and raiding talents together to ensure they're
>> in the 600-1200 DPS range but now you most definitely need a threat
>> meter.
>
> Well, our guild have just got past Maulgar, and to be frank I don't
> think threat was ever that much of an issue on him or his adds.. On
> Gruul, as I understand it (we haven't killed him yet), there are two
> or more tanks, and then threat has to be considered. So far though, I
> think we mostly have to learn how to survive.
>
> There are too many variables -- a rogue might have a certain DPS
>> most times, but now he's fully raid-buffed with Kings, Might, GotW, etc,
>> the boss might have high or low armor, there might be a melee-enhanced
>> Hunter's Mark, improved warrior Bleeds, he may be sharing a group with a
>> Battle Shouting warrior, 5% crit feral druid, and totem-happy shaman,
>> and now that rogue has INSANE DPS. Which is great, but the threat meter
>> is absolutely mandatory now.
>
> But the rogue knows what buffs he's got in advance.

really? He knows when Windfury will proc? And crits? and UR from the
shaman? And he just used his trinket. And the other one procs?

all in the same 2sec?

Urs

--
Mano - Orc Shaman 70 - Mining & Jewelcrafter
Myno - Tauren Bear 70 - Skinning & Herbalism
Ratoma- Troll Rogue 28 - (Dis)Enchantress
Melony - Human Mage 16
and various others
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Hi lcpltom <lcpltom.DeleteThis@gmail.com>, you wrote
>On Jan 31, 7:27 pm, Dale <ab....DeleteThis@webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi lcpltom, you wrote :
>>
>> >On Jan 31, 3:21 pm, Dale <ab....DeleteThis@webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> *snipped for brevity - no point repeating my point*
>>
>> >If you don't want to use threat meters, thats your decision. Your
>> >guild might not be too happy if you constantly pull aggro and wipe the
>> >raid, but thats an issue between you and them. Just don't come in
>> >here and try to BS us with claims that since you know your class so
>> >well you can play just as good without a threat meter.
>>
>> I didn't say I know my class so well that I don't need one, I've said
>> that they aren't as necessary as made out. I'm sure that when we enter
>> Gruul's Lair in the next few days we'll all make mistakes, whether we
>> have a threat meter or not, and no matter the experience we have,
>> because it's a completely new experience. I wouldn't be so arrogant to
>> think that I could step in there and not have an issue, but the same
>> goes for the rest of the guild and we like discovering the best way to
>> do something.
>> --
>> Dale
>>
>> Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.
>
>Written by Dale at 4:01 pm on Jan 30:
>
>"While I do use some add-ons (more the cosmetic ones, such as
>Bartender3,
>Elkbuffbars, X-Perl, just so my screen looks better), I don't have a
>damage meter (I'd rather not be more hassle to the healer), threat
>meter
>(learn to cast correctly, not when a little program says you can) or
>sheep monitor (they don't always work and if you grow too used to it,
>you'll not be a decent CCer if it doesn't work or a patch buggers it
>up
>- just check your sheep now and again).
>
>I do believe a little bit more time learning to play a class correctly
>would be far more beneficial than growing reliant on add-ons and
>wanting
>to be the highest DPS in the party - and this goes for all classes,
>there are far too many out there that really don't know their class.
>It
>doesn't make you less of a Mage just because you're 2nd on a damage
>meter."
>
>Sure looks like that is what you are claiming right there.

The second paragraph you've quoted doesn't say anything about me - it's
an opinion that could be used for anything. I could say "I do believe a
little bit more time learning to drive correctly would be far more
beneficial than the current driving tests used" - doesn't mean I'm an
excellent driver, it means I have the opinion that learning how to do
something is beneficial.

The first paragraph you've quoted says I use cosmetic add-ons and the
reasons why I don't use certain ones, with some factual information,
i.e. those who aim to be the top of the damage meters generally are more
hassle for healers, because they generally pull aggro; sheep monitors
don't always work and add-ons can be effected by patches; and it also
includes my opinion that I believe a threat meter tells you when you can
cast and doesn't give you the opportunity to understand why and when to
cast.

However, as I've already stated, I have comfortably admitted that when
we go into a new instance, we will wipe because the guild hasn't got the
experience of the new area (and that includes me). Selective quoting
won't change that fact.
--
Dale

Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Hi lcpltom, you wrote :

>On Jan 31, 1:32 pm, Dale <ab... DeleteThis @webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

*snipped for brevity*

>> You lose the bet then - I'm certainly not one of the "when I was a
>> lad..." sort of person. Yes, I have a 70, but that doesn't mean I've
>> been to all the areas, I was still discovering places when this was
>> added.
>>
>> I'd certainly hold off from making any more assumptions like that until
>> you see more opinion from me - would save you losing the bets.
>
>Given your responses, its the most logical conclusion as to why
>something that has no impact on how you play the game would be of any
>importance to you. Just because the ! and ? are on your minimap
>doesn't mean you have to look at it, and having them there has no
>impact on exploring the world.

They are a bit difficult to miss when they are on your minimap. I enjoy
finding lesser known quests (such as the delivery one from Thandol Span
to Southshore). That's part of the enjoyment I get from the game and is
my opinion. How you enjoy the game is up to you.

>If the problem was just the quest text, and they put in the patch
>notes that they were changing quest text on many quests to make the
>quest objective easier to find, you would probably be here with the
>same argument.

More assumptions - and incorrect again. If the quest text is incorrect
or misleading, then they should be changed. That makes sense and I've
said nothing to contradict that.
--
Dale

Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Hi lcpltom, you wrote :

>On Feb 1, 8:20 am, Dale <ab... RemoveThis @webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi lcpltom <lcpl... RemoveThis @gmail.com>, you wrote
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jan 31, 7:27 pm, Dale <ab... RemoveThis @webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> Hi lcpltom, you wrote :
>>
>> >> >On Jan 31, 3:21 pm, Dale <ab... RemoveThis @webeye.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >> *snipped for brevity - no point repeating my point*
>>
>> >> >If you don't want to use threat meters, thats your decision. Your
>> >> >guild might not be too happy if you constantly pull aggro and wipe the
>> >> >raid, but thats an issue between you and them. Just don't come in
>> >> >here and try to BS us with claims that since you know your class so
>> >> >well you can play just as good without a threat meter.
>>
>> >> I didn't say I know my class so well that I don't need one, I've said
>> >> that they aren't as necessary as made out. I'm sure that when we enter
>> >> Gruul's Lair in the next few days we'll all make mistakes, whether we
>> >> have a threat meter or not, and no matter the experience we have,
>> >> because it's a completely new experience. I wouldn't be so arrogant to
>> >> think that I could step in there and not have an issue, but the same
>> >> goes for the rest of the guild and we like discovering the best way to
>> >> do something.
>> >> --
>> >> Dale
>>
>> >> Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.
>>
>> >Written by Dale at 4:01 pm on Jan 30:
>>
>> >"While I do use some add-ons (more the cosmetic ones, such as
>> >Bartender3,
>> >Elkbuffbars, X-Perl, just so my screen looks better), I don't have a
>> >damage meter (I'd rather not be more hassle to the healer), threat
>> >meter
>> >(learn to cast correctly, not when a little program says you can) or
>> >sheep monitor (they don't always work and if you grow too used to it,
>> >you'll not be a decent CCer if it doesn't work or a patch buggers it
>> >up
>> >- just check your sheep now and again).
>>
>> >I do believe a little bit more time learning to play a class correctly
>> >would be far more beneficial than growing reliant on add-ons and
>> >wanting
>> >to be the highest DPS in the party - and this goes for all classes,
>> >there are far too many out there that really don't know their class.
>> >It
>> >doesn't make you less of a Mage just because you're 2nd on a damage
>> >meter."
>>
>> >Sure looks like that is what you are claiming right there.
>>
>> The second paragraph you've quoted doesn't say anything about me - it's
>> an opinion that could be used for anything. I could say "I do believe a
>> little bit more time learning to drive correctly would be far more
>> beneficial than the current driving tests used" - doesn't mean I'm an
>> excellent driver, it means I have the opinion that learning how to do
>> something is beneficial.
>>
>> The first paragraph you've quoted says I use cosmetic add-ons and the
>> reasons why I don't use certain ones, with some factual information,
>> i.e. those who aim to be the top of the damage meters generally are more
>> hassle for healers, because they generally pull aggro; sheep monitors
>> don't always work and add-ons can be effected by patches; and it also
>> includes my opinion that I believe a threat meter tells you when you can
>> cast and doesn't give you the opportunity to understand why and when to
>> cast.
>>
>> However, as I've already stated, I have comfortably admitted that when
>> we go into a new instance, we will wipe because the guild hasn't got the
>> experience of the new area (and that includes me). Selective quoting
>> won't change that fact.
>> --
>> Dale
>>
>> Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.
>
>Its not selective quoting, as I included more than just the one
>sentence indicating you think a threat meter plays the game for you.
>If it was selective quoting, I would have included nothing but that
>one sentence.

I won't deny that I think a threat meter plays the game for you.
However, that wasn't what you were aiming to do with your selective
quoting.

You said : "Just don't come in here and try to BS us with claims that
since you know your class so well you can play just as good without a
threat meter."

Your selective quoting was aiming to make it look like that I believed
that I knew my class so well that I didn't need a threat meter. I
refuted that claim. I had already stated that when we (the guild) moved
to a new instance (i.e. the plans we have to enter Gruul's Lair) we are
going to wipe because we don't have the experience (and that includes
me). At no state whatsoever, did I state that I know my class so well
that I don't need a threat meter nor would I because I certainly don't
believe it.

*snipped*
--
Dale

Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

pv+usenet@pobox.com (PV) wrote:

>The reason threatmeters exist is because blizzard forgot to include some
>in-game method to determine how pissed mobs are at you.

I don't think they 'forgot', I think they chose not to. They
deliberately kept the threat mechanics under a cloak of secrecy
until determined players reverse-engineered what they must be. The
whole 'threat list' thing is just a way to make monsters choose who
they attack in a more intelligent way, if you know exactly how it
works, you can exploit that knowledge to increase your
effectiveness. It's no coincedence that the hardest fights tend to
be ones with non-standard threat mechanics - e.g. some scripted
action that wipes the threat list.

The fact that they are considering adding a built-in threatmeter now
is probably just a grudging acknowledgement of the fact that
everyone is using them anyway, to the point where they now assume
you have them when they design the raid encounters. I'm speculating
of course, but I imagine they'd prefer to get rid of threat-meters,
but it just can't be done without removing the combat log.

>This is sort of
>obvious if you think about it - why does it make more sense to have no idea
>that a monster has you on his list o' hate and is considering ripping your
>head off, until the literal last moment?

You do know the monster has you on his hate list, you can tell
because it puts you in combat. Why does it make more sense to know
that one more fireball will be exactly the right number to make the
monster angry enough to come eat you, taking into account what
everyone else in the raid has done for the duration of the battle so
far?

Monsters should be more like people, IMO - have varying threat
charactistics that vary each time they are spawned and may change in
the course of a fight. Perhaps some might gauge threat based on
damage rate, rather than damage done. Some might weigh healing
heavier than others. Some might hate a particular class more, or a
particular type of damage, that kind of thing.

It would make large fights more interesting, rather than just
following a known static recipe as perfectly as you can.

>The obvious thing for blizzard to do would be to have a bar like health
>next to each monster that illustrates your threat level to them. Hopefully
>they'll do this someday and you won't have to insist that people install an
>addon for it. *

Soon we'll have add-ons that stop your attacks/heals if they think
you'll gain aggro by carrying them out, just to make life even
easier.

Dan
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Hi gerryq, you wrote :

>On Jan 31, 5:43 pm, pv+use...@pobox.com (PV) wrote:
>>
>> If you've never been in there before, regardless of experience elsewhere,
>> you're going to wipe repeatedly and violently just getting the pull down,
>> so no, threatmeters won't matter. I don't mean that in an insulting
>> manner - the setup for Maulgar is just insanely stupid until it becomes
>> easy.
>
>I don't believe a threat meter is needed at all for the Maulgar
>encounter. The only mob that might realistically be aggroed by over-
>dpsing is the priest, and that's probably not the end of the world.
>By the time you get to the other adds and Maulgar himself, threat will
>be well established.
>
>> Pull aggro even for a second on one of the brute ogres, and you'll see why
>> knowing threat level is a good thing. *
>
>Yes, but there are only three adds before Maulgar, and it's not a wipe
>if some dps die, so long as the tank gets the mob back.
>
>For Gruul himself, a threat meter might be important. We are still
>having trouble with Maulgar, and wiping very early when we try Gruul,
>so we aren't at the point where I can give an opinion on the matter...

This does sound like an exciting instance - I'm looking forward to
getting first hand experience of what you're talking about.
--
Dale

Don't mail me with "abuse" - use my name instead.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:31:42 GMT, deathsabyss RemoveThis @yahoo.com.au (Ashen
Shugar) wrote:

>
>Actually, that how it used to be. The taunt debuff would keep the
>mobs focused on the taunter until it wore off, then unless they had
>managed to get 10% more threat, the mob would go back to who they were
>attacking. Not all that long ago it was changed though, so while the
>taunt debuff would still force the mob to focus on the taunter for the
>duration of the debuff, when the debuff wore off, the taunter would
>still be the mobs main focus, and the other people would have reach
>the 110% and the 130% thresholds to pull agro off them. Though for a
>warrior, it's only taunt that works that way. Mocking blow as I
>recall, doesn't actually change your level of threat, just forces the
>mob to focus on your for the duration.

Ah I sit corrected.. it's a while since I did anything with my
warrior..
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

usenet5 DeleteThis @stormbringer.clara.co.uk writes:
>effectiveness. It's no coincedence that the hardest fights tend to
>be ones with non-standard threat mechanics - e.g. some scripted
>action that wipes the threat list.

Actually, that's not true at all. Also note that Omen has no problem at all
with wipes to the threat list, provided it knows about the event.

>The fact that they are considering adding a built-in threatmeter now
>is probably just a grudging acknowledgement of the fact that
>everyone is using them anyway, to the point where they now assume

That is 100% the opposite of what the blue post said. Having threat level
exposed lets them make more interesting encounters, such as DPS races,
where going all out would have been an instant wipe. DPS races in the days
before meters were a guild-breaking mess - part of the reason raiding
didn't progress much pre-BC was Vael, who killed raids dead if even one
player grabbed aggro for a second.

>You do know the monster has you on his hate list, you can tell
>because it puts you in combat. Why does it make more sense to know
>that one more fireball will be exactly the right number to make the
>monster angry enough to come eat you, taking into account what

It doesn't work that way, since you don't know how much damage "one more
fireball" would add, and there are other complicating factors.

>It would make large fights more interesting, rather than just
>following a known static recipe as perfectly as you can.

Except that's not how raids work.

>Soon we'll have add-ons that stop your attacks/heals if they think
>you'll gain aggro by carrying them out, just to make life even
>easier.

Now you see, that's a strawman argument, because such action HAVE been
specifically disallowed for addons to perform. You can't do it. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

gerryq <gerryq DeleteThis @indigo.ie> writes:
>It can, because threat is calculated on the server. If an attack
>generated a random amount of threat from 50% to 150% of normal, for
>example, threatmeters could only give approximate values for threat.
>(Although they would stil be useful.) The more randomness was added,
>the less useful they would become.

And the more difficult it would be for a player to gauge their safety
without the meter too! This would be a total disaster.

Changing the threat model is certainly possible, but it would be some other
game and not WoW. D&D online tried this by making monsters subject to
collision so that a tank can actually stand in front of the squishies, for
example. You can see how well that idea worked out. Threat is a more
effective model than many give it credit for. Imagine if you could cast all
day and have no chance ever of being attacked if some dork with a shield
was standing in a doorway - talk about trivializing all encounters! *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?