what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?

On 25 Jan, 12:45, "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknewsgro... RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
> steve.kaye wrote:
> > I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> > the hardest heroic instance.  (I don't know what that is as I've only
> > done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)
>
> Hardest heroic I've tried is Durnholde. We gave up before the first boss.

My opinion on heroics....

Durnholde Heroic is hard(ish) due to the guards calling for re-
inforcements, causes lots of wipes.

....but after that, the rest is straight forward.

Shattered Halls Heroic is imo the hardest, since you MUST kill the
groups of mobs in a single attempt to progress. I dont mean the first
attempt, what i mean is you can not kill 1 mob, wipe, come back, kill
another mob, wipe, come back and so on. You can not progress through
Shattered halls heroic unless all mobs in a group are dead b4 your
group is, or they respawn. (same for normal mode to come to think of
it).

Another tricky one I guess is Black Morass (Dark Portal) for the same
reason, if the shield goes down, start again. Tactics wise tho, Black
Morass has a lot less going on, so i consider it easier than SH
Heroic.

CG
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 23, 1:21 pm, ke....DeleteThis@spamsucks.com wrote:
> > Is it the final raid of the game?
>
> Karazhan is the first TBC raid that level 70's will do. It's a 10-man. Many
> people (myself included) who leveled their characters after TBC came out skip
> the old-world raids entirely, so for lots of us Kara is the very first raid
> we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
> enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
> no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)
>
> Kara is located in deadwind pass, in Azeroth, rather than Outland.
>
> It has bosses that range from fairly simple but tuff (Huntsman, Moroes,
> Nightbane) to bosses that are very complicated (Shade of Aran, Netherspite).
>
> There is an attunement process, but it is not all that difficult. I believe
> it has you running a total of 4 regular TBC/Outland instances. Some of them
> you can get your key fragment part way through, so you don't even have to run
> the whole instance.
>
> The attunement process serves as both a gear and a skill check. I'm glad they
> have it, otherwise we'd have people who've never run an instance trying to
> get into kara raids. Many guilds can power-run you through the keying process
> very quickly if needed as the instances just don't take that long to run.
>
> I'm on my fourth kara run now, and I'm still enjoying the content. Finally
> got my "Ruby Slippers" from the Opera Event last night (damn you Blizzard!
> sharing the cooldown with the hearthstone is a disappointment).
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Posted using Android Newsgroup Downloader:
> ....http://www.sb-software.com/android
> -----------------------------------------------------------

5 instances if you include the "attunement" to Black Morass. You have
to run Old Hillsbrad and complete the quest chain there before you can
run Black Morass.

I had to run OH 5 or 6 times before I finally got into a PUG good
enough to finish it, but just barely. In a group full of level 70's
however, its a trivial run. I helped someone else with OH with a
group of 70's and we didn't bother with CC or even marking targets,
just sloshed our way through in about half an hour.

I never did OH until I was working on the Kara key quest. So OH was a
requirement for my Kara Key.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 8:26 am, ImmortalCG <Immorta....RemoveThis@f2s.com> wrote:
> On 25 Jan, 12:45, "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknewsgro....RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > steve.kaye wrote:
> > > I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> > > the hardest heroic instance. (I don't know what that is as I've only
> > > done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)
>
> > Hardest heroic I've tried is Durnholde. We gave up before the first boss.
>
> My opinion on heroics....
>
> Durnholde Heroic is hard(ish) due to the guards calling for re-
> inforcements, causes lots of wipes.
>
> ....but after that, the rest is straight forward.
>
> Shattered Halls Heroic is imo the hardest, since you MUST kill the
> groups of mobs in a single attempt to progress. I dont mean the first
> attempt, what i mean is you can not kill 1 mob, wipe, come back, kill
> another mob, wipe, come back and so on. You can not progress through
> Shattered halls heroic unless all mobs in a group are dead b4 your
> group is, or they respawn. (same for normal mode to come to think of
> it).
>
> Another tricky one I guess is Black Morass (Dark Portal) for the same
> reason, if the shield goes down, start again. Tactics wise tho, Black
> Morass has a lot less going on, so i consider it easier than SH
> Heroic.
>
> CG

I've attempted heroic SH and BM. I fear heroic OH and refuse to go
there. One day, the daily heroic was for old Hillsbrad, and I dropped
the quest. I had enough trouble with level 66-68ish pugs, I can't
imagine doing that on heroic with a pug.

The one attempt I made on heroic SH ended in failure that was blamed
on me even though the real failure was with the tank. It was a guild
group who pugged out the last open spot, to me. The tank was arms/
fury specced and couldn't hold aggro through even minimal damage from
me or the priests healing. Eventually the guild decided it wasn't
going to work because we didn't have enough CC, i.e. my CC wasn't
enough. Easy to blame the 1 person who wasn't in their guild I
suppose.

Heroic BM I have successfully done twice. I find it to be easy so
long as people know and are capable of doing their jobs. 2 DPS need
to provide enough DPS to make up for the person on adds. Player on
adds needs to make sure to stay close enough to the healer to receive
heals when they need it. Healer needs to position himself such that
the player on adds can pick them up and not have to kite them so he
can be within range of the healer. Combine that with a tank that can
hold aggro on the rift lords and heroic BM comes not much harder than
normal BM.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Aboo wrote:
>
> There is, it's called Heroics. And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
> is better that what you can get out of Kara, at least the first half
> of Kara.

Then it's not end-game. Kara gear is far from the best in the game.

What is the end-game final boss?

--
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Catriona R wrote:
>
> True, but tbh the heroics really don't come across as worth the effort, it
> ends up as a lot of wiping and getting the same lvl 68 blues you could on
> normal, with one epic at the end, which in a lot of instances there is no
> drop that would even benefit you. It's a shame as it's a good idea, but...
> not really worth the hassle except the very easiest ones.

Uh-huh. Heroics are mainly for farming badges, and farming is no
substitute for a final boss.

--
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 11:48 am, "steve.kaye" <nos... DeleteThis @giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25 Jan, 11:01, RogerM <roger.mc... DeleteThis @ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > Aboo wrote:
>
> > > There is, it's called Heroics.  And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
> > > is better that what you can get out ofKara, at least the first half
> > > ofKara.
>
> > Then it's not end-game.Karagear is far from the best in the game.
>
> End-game is what you make of it.  If you choose to limit yourself (for
> whatever reason) to 5 man PvE content then heroics are your end-game.
> If you want to PvP then I guess your end-game is in the arena.  If you
> want to raid then that is your end-game.
>
> > What is the end-game final boss?
>
> I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> the hardest heroic instance.  (I don't know what that is as I've only
> done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)

Shattered Halls heroic is not very hard if your team is well-geared
and knows what to expect.

I suspect the hardest heroic is *meant* to be Arcatraz, but I have not
tried it on heroic yet. The trash in normal Arca is pretty tough,
although the bosses are not except for the last one. I seem to recall
reading on Wowwiki or somewhere that the last boss in Arca Heroic is
L73, which would be some indication that it is intended as the
hardest. Also, it seems to be the last quest on the "Trials of the
Naaru" series.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's the hardest in practice, though.

- Gerry Quinn
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 2:31 pm, lcpltom <lcpl....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I had to run OH 5 or 6 times before I finally got into a PUG good
> enough to finish it, but just barely.  In a group full of level 70's
> however, its a trivial run.  I helped someone else with OH with a
> group of 70's and we didn't bother with CC or even marking targets,
> just sloshed our way through in about half an hour.

Same here, though we did CC. I don't think anyone ever had <90%
health, with the possible exception of Thrall. It was quite a
contrast with my struggles at L68, though I think the PUGs I was with
then mostly succeeded in it. (Then in some cases went on to BM and
the inevitable humiliation at that level...)

- Gerry Quinn
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 12:45 pm, "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknewsgro... RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
wrote:
> steve.kaye wrote:
> > I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> > the hardest heroic instance.  (I don't know what that is as I've only
> > done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)
>
> Hardest heroic I've tried is Durnholde. We gave up before the first boss.

You were trying to kill the patrols. Don't do that - mark and avoid
them. It's scary but not too hard, as in contrast to normal there are
only two patrols inside the internment camp, and they both walk the
whole length of it.

- Gerry Quinn
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 11:18 am, gerryq <ger... RemoveThis @indigo.ie> wrote:
> On Jan 25, 11:48 am, "steve.kaye" <nos... RemoveThis @giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 25 Jan, 11:01, RogerM <roger.mc... RemoveThis @ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Aboo wrote:
>
> > > > There is, it's called Heroics. And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
> > > > is better that what you can get out ofKara, at least the first half
> > > > ofKara.
>
> > > Then it's not end-game.Karagear is far from the best in the game.
>
> > End-game is what you make of it. If you choose to limit yourself (for
> > whatever reason) to 5 man PvE content then heroics are your end-game.
> > If you want to PvP then I guess your end-game is in the arena. If you
> > want to raid then that is your end-game.
>
> > > What is the end-game final boss?
>
> > I guess that the end-game final boss for 5 man PvE is the last boss of
> > the hardest heroic instance. (I don't know what that is as I've only
> > done a few heroics - Shattered Halls perhaps?)
>
> Shattered Halls heroic is not very hard if your team is well-geared
> and knows what to expect.
>
> I suspect the hardest heroic is *meant* to be Arcatraz, but I have not
> tried it on heroic yet. The trash in normal Arca is pretty tough,
> although the bosses are not except for the last one. I seem to recall
> reading on Wowwiki or somewhere that the last boss in Arca Heroic is
> L73, which would be some indication that it is intended as the
> hardest. Also, it seems to be the last quest on the "Trials of the
> Naaru" series.
>
> That doesn't necessarily mean it's the hardest in practice, though.
>
> - Gerry Quinn

I thought the last quest for the Trials of the Naaru chain was to down
Mag.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 12:21 pm, Jack D <jack_221N....DeleteThis@Mhotmail.com> wrote:
> On 2008-01-23 21:37:00 +0100, pv+use...@pobox.com (PV) said:
>
> > ke....DeleteThis@spamsucks.com writes:
> >> we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
> >> enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
> >> no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)
>
> > In most ways, this is true. The absolute WORST part of the old world raids
> > was that loot dropped that was usable by only one class, so you could
> > easily go every week for most of a year and not get your whole set. Molten
> > core took me only 12 weeks because I was the only warlock in the guild that
> > didn't have felheart already.
>
> That, and the fact that the encounters in Molten Bore were so
> unimaginative (compared to what they design now), it becomes quite
> repetitive and boring fast.
>
> > BWL took much longer - I got my last piece
> > two weeks before BC went live, after going to BWL since June. BWL is a
> > great raid though - easily the best designed of all the old world ones.
>
> I tend to disagree, I prefered it over AQ40 (by far), but it was
> nowhere near the quality of Naxx. Many still consider it to be the best
> designed instance ever in the game. I never cleared the entire
> instance, but I am definitely looking forward to getting back in there
> in WoTLK and finish the stuff we never got round to...
>
> In TBC my favorite encounter so far is Kael'thas. We wiped for weeks on
> it, and it never ever got tedious to attempt him again. Afaik he is on
> the same level as most stuff in Naxx.
> --
> -=-http://www.dagon-roots.com/-=-
> Nerghal - Undead Warlock L70 - Bloodscalp EU

What disturbs me here is how they will translate a 25-man raid boss
into a 5-man dungeon boss in 2.4. Is he just severely weakened from
being beat up by raiders to the point that he is 5-mannable?
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 25, 12:34 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS....DeleteThis@totalise.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:44:29 -0800 (PST), lcpltom <lcpl....DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >The one attempt I made on heroic SH ended in failure that was blamed
> >on me even though the real failure was with the tank. It was a guild
> >group who pugged out the last open spot, to me. The tank was arms/
> >fury specced and couldn't hold aggro through even minimal damage from
> >me or the priests healing. Eventually the guild decided it wasn't
> >going to work because we didn't have enough CC, i.e. my CC wasn't
> >enough. Easy to blame the 1 person who wasn't in their guild I
> >suppose.
>
> Try it with a paladin tank, it's easy then, only done it once and it was
> almost like on normal, the group was so good. We only had one CC, as the
> group iirc was 2 paladins, a shaman, a mage and my priest, but the only
> wipe was on the last boss.
>
> >Heroic BM I have successfully done twice. I find it to be easy so
> >long as people know and are capable of doing their jobs. 2 DPS need
> >to provide enough DPS to make up for the person on adds. Player on
> >adds needs to make sure to stay close enough to the healer to receive
> >heals when they need it. Healer needs to position himself such that
> >the player on adds can pick them up and not have to kite them so he
> >can be within range of the healer. Combine that with a tank that can
> >hold aggro on the rift lords and heroic BM comes not much harder than
> >normal BM.
>
> As a healer heroic BM is the hardest one I have done. Simply because
> everyone takes enormous damage, it's very very hard to keep up with it.
> Tacticswise it's easy, sure, but outhealing the damagewise it's a total and
> utter pain. And I did it in a good group with the best tank I know, so
> can't even blame anyone else for it being so tough!
> --
> EU-Draenor:
> Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
> Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
> Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
> Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
> Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
> Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
> Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
> Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
> Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)

Paladins, at least on my realm, seem to resist speccing prot. Most of
them are around a 40/21 holy/prot spec, for healing instances or doing
battlegrounds and arenas. Then there is the ret paladins as the next
most common, but prot paladins are really rare. Its really sad too
because the easiest 5-mans I have ever done were with a prot paladin
and just AoEing groups down.

My first SH run, on normal, was with a prot pally. I didn't realize
how hard that instance actually was till I tried it with a druid
tank. Now if I could find a prot pally geared for heroics, that would
be great.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

In article
<4673c407-aa76-48f6-b09d-e1922c87772f RemoveThis @d70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
lcpltom <lcpltom RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> The one attempt I made on heroic SH ended in failure that was blamed
> on me even though the real failure was with the tank. It was a guild
> group who pugged out the last open spot, to me. The tank was arms/
> fury specced and couldn't hold aggro through even minimal damage from
> me or the priests healing. Eventually the guild decided it wasn't
> going to work because we didn't have enough CC, i.e. my CC wasn't
> enough. Easy to blame the 1 person who wasn't in their guild I
> suppose.

Ugh, that's the worst. As Arms/Fury spec I wouldn't *dream* of trying
to tank SH now. That guild you ran with must've been morons. A
non-Prot warrior will have a very hard time with any heroic, let alone
SH. You'll need extraordinary healing and dps'ers will need to read a
book or take a bio break while you build aggro at the start of every
pull.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

RogerM wrote:
> Marcel wrote:
>
>>I have to disagree on that one.
>>Running Karazhan just feels like going to UBRS or LBRS with a 10 men
>>'party'.
>>Going through an instance with 40 people is imho much more impressive
>>then doing it with only 10.
>>Running around with 40 just felt so much better/nicer.
>
>
> For me, doing MC at L60 was a major drag. I felt like a tiny cog in a
> machine. Frankly, I'm not that pleased with the 10-man instances.

Of course you aren't. There isn't much you're pleased about in WoW.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?