what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?

Psalm Nuclei wrote:
>
> I've yet to reach level 60, I've never done any of the "old world"
> raids.
>
> So I'm curious about all the "Kara" talk. You have to be attuned for
> it appartently, everyone is always running it..... it seems like there
> is more talk about this instance than many others.
>
> Is it the final raid of the game?

No, there are a few higher in the game. It IS a big jump from the
highest old word raid, though.

--
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

> Is it the final raid of the game?

Karazhan is the first TBC raid that level 70's will do. It's a 10-man. Many
people (myself included) who leveled their characters after TBC came out skip
the old-world raids entirely, so for lots of us Kara is the very first raid
we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)

Kara is located in deadwind pass, in Azeroth, rather than Outland.

It has bosses that range from fairly simple but tuff (Huntsman, Moroes,
Nightbane) to bosses that are very complicated (Shade of Aran, Netherspite).

There is an attunement process, but it is not all that difficult. I believe
it has you running a total of 4 regular TBC/Outland instances. Some of them
you can get your key fragment part way through, so you don't even have to run
the whole instance.

The attunement process serves as both a gear and a skill check. I'm glad they
have it, otherwise we'd have people who've never run an instance trying to
get into kara raids. Many guilds can power-run you through the keying process
very quickly if needed as the instances just don't take that long to run.

I'm on my fourth kara run now, and I'm still enjoying the content. Finally
got my "Ruby Slippers" from the Opera Event last night (damn you Blizzard!
sharing the cooldown with the hearthstone is a disappointment).

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 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Psalm Nuclei <meatnub RemoveThis @gmail.com> writes:
>So I'm curious about all the "Kara" talk. You have to be attuned for
>it appartently, everyone is always running it..... it seems like there
>is more talk about this instance than many others.
>
>Is it the final raid of the game?

Hardly! Karazhan is the lowest-level raid for 70s to do - think of it as a
10 man heroic in terms of difficulty. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Psalm Nuclei <meatnub DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> Is it the final raid of the game?

No, is the first one of TBC, that's why.
--
Candido
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Psalm Nuclei wrote:
> I've yet to reach level 60, I've never done any of the "old world"
> raids.
>
> So I'm curious about all the "Kara" talk. You have to be attuned for
> it appartently, everyone is always running it..... it seems like there
> is more talk about this instance than many others.
>
> Is it the final raid of the game?

Kara is, IMO, one of the best developments that came with TBC. It is
entry-level raiding in terms of difficulty, but only 10 man. What this
means is that it is accessible to guilds that don't/will never have
enough people in them for 25 man stuff (let alone the 40 man stuff of
the old world). I played up to 60, and had a level 60 for about a year
before TBC came out, and while a guild I was in managed a couple of ZG
attempts, we could never get the people together for raiding. With
kara, we have enough players for a full raid, and we are finally getting
epics, and seeing epic bosses. Most of us are too "casual" (ie can't
play that much) for raiding guilds, and without this, most of us would
never have seen such content.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

kerri.DeleteThis@spamsucks.com writes:
>we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
>enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
>no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)

In most ways, this is true. The absolute WORST part of the old world raids
was that loot dropped that was usable by only one class, so you could
easily go every week for most of a year and not get your whole set. Molten
core took me only 12 weeks because I was the only warlock in the guild that
didn't have felheart already. BWL took much longer - I got my last piece
two weeks before BC went live, after going to BWL since June. BWL is a
great raid though - easily the best designed of all the old world ones.

>It has bosses that range from fairly simple but tuff (Huntsman, Moroes,
>Nightbane) to bosses that are very complicated (Shade of Aran, Netherspite).

Aran is not complicated. Netherspite is really the only boss that has
significant organizational challenge, because of the beam rotations.

>I'm on my fourth kara run now, and I'm still enjoying the content. Finally
>got my "Ruby Slippers" from the Opera Event last night (damn you Blizzard!
>sharing the cooldown with the hearthstone is a disappointment).

Well, at least it's one less item to carry (not that I have mine anymore -
they got pitched when I made my frozen shadoweave boots). Early on they
were *instant*, but that was quickly changed. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

> Aran is not complicated. Netherspite is really the only boss that has
> significant organizational challenge, because of the beam rotations.

I think the reason why I consider Aran complicated is because he his
abilities require strategies that are complete opposites. The blizzard and
pull/explosion both require the player to move (in the case of the pull, to
move immediately). The flame wreath requires people to stop moving
immediately.

Thus, you have your brain telling you to both run like hell and to stand
still. Get it backwards just once, then in the best case you are dead and in
the worst case the whole raid gets blown up by a flame wreath.

Add to this summoned elementals and shade's spells and you have a lot going
on at once.

My guild seems to have pretty good luck with it as long as we follow the rule
of "nobody moves during flame wreath". If anyone is moving, even those
unaffected, then it seems to temp the people who are affected to move,
leading to the inevitable wipe.

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 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Jan 24, 4:12 pm, RogerM <roger.mc....RemoveThis@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Catriona R wrote:
>
> > Depends on what you enjoy, I like 10-man groups much better than 40 because
> > you feel like a closeknit team, rather than a huge crowd. with 40 I knew if
> > I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
> > have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice... with 10 you're very
> > much a team who all has to do their thing right. But then I'm a person who
> > likes smaller groups better than bigger ones in any situation.
>
> Same, and it's too bad there is no end-game for 5-man groups.
>
> --

There is, it's called Heroics. And some (not all) of the Heroic gear
is better that what you can get out of Kara, at least the first half
of Kara.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Marcel wrote:
>
> I have to disagree on that one.
> Running Karazhan just feels like going to UBRS or LBRS with a 10 men
> 'party'.
> Going through an instance with 40 people is imho much more impressive
> then doing it with only 10.
> Running around with 40 just felt so much better/nicer.

For me, doing MC at L60 was a major drag. I felt like a tiny cog in a
machine. Frankly, I'm not that pleased with the 10-man instances.

--
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

Catriona R wrote:
>
> Depends on what you enjoy, I like 10-man groups much better than 40 because
> you feel like a closeknit team, rather than a huge crowd. with 40 I knew if
> I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
> have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice... with 10 you're very
> much a team who all has to do their thing right. But then I'm a person who
> likes smaller groups better than bigger ones in any situation.

Same, and it's too bad there is no end-game for 5-man groups.

--
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

"Psalm Nuclei" <meatnub RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:937c991f-98fa-476c-be3c-d23e19ad4ff9@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> I've yet to reach level 60, I've never done any of the "old world"
> raids.
>
> So I'm curious about all the "Kara" talk. You have to be attuned for
> it appartently, everyone is always running it..... it seems like there
> is more talk about this instance than many others.
>
> Is it the final raid of the game?

Not even close to the final raid of the game.

What it is, though, is the single gateway to all of the OTHER
end-game raids. You need to run Kara to get both the gear
and the tactical know-how to run other, later raids. It's that
simple, really.

If you can't get PAST Kara, it IS the end-game for you.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On 23 Jan 2008 18:21:18 GMT, kerri.DeleteThis@spamsucks.com wrote:

>> Is it the final raid of the game?
>
>Karazhan is the first TBC raid that level 70's will do. It's a 10-man. Many
>people (myself included) who leveled their characters after TBC came out skip
>the old-world raids entirely, so for lots of us Kara is the very first raid
>we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
>enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
>no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)
>
I have to disagree on that one.
Running Karazhan just feels like going to UBRS or LBRS with a 10 men
'party'.
Going through an instance with 40 people is imho much more impressive
then doing it with only 10.
Running around with 40 just felt so much better/nicer.
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ? 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:27:29 +0100, Marcel <marcel.DeleteThis@marcel.invalid> wrote:

>On 23 Jan 2008 18:21:18 GMT, kerri.DeleteThis@spamsucks.com wrote:
>
>>> Is it the final raid of the game?
>>
>>Karazhan is the first TBC raid that level 70's will do. It's a 10-man. Many
>>people (myself included) who leveled their characters after TBC came out skip
>>the old-world raids entirely, so for lots of us Kara is the very first raid
>>we will ever do. I've heard from some guildies that the Kara content is more
>>enjoyable, better designed, etc, than the old-world raids were (but as I have
>>no first-hand experience with old-world raids I can't say for sure)
>>
>I have to disagree on that one.
>Running Karazhan just feels like going to UBRS or LBRS with a 10 men
>'party'.
>Going through an instance with 40 people is imho much more impressive
>then doing it with only 10.
>Running around with 40 just felt so much better/nicer.

Depends on what you enjoy, I like 10-man groups much better than 40 because
you feel like a closeknit team, rather than a huge crowd. with 40 I knew if
I wasn't pulling my weight it didn't matter, there were 39 others and I'd
have to screw up a lot for anyone to even notice... with 10 you're very
much a team who all has to do their thing right. But then I'm a person who
likes smaller groups better than bigger ones in any situation.
--
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Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
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Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 60)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
Sgoildubh - Human Mage (lvl 53)
Cathach - Gnome Warrior (lvl 30)
 >> Stay informed about: what's with all the talk about "Kara" ?