How to start making own Roguelike game?

O/H kalle.olli.TakeThisOut@saunalahti.fi ??????:
> Played ADOM ~100 hours and my dream is to make working RL game, i have
> little to nothing codeing knowledge / skills so what is best program to
> start with? 2D and ASCII is both fine to me.
>

This weekend I was teaching programming for the very first time to a
friend - of course he wanted to learn "how to make games".

DarkBASIC is supposed to be ideal for novice programmers (as it is
BASIC) but it really felt heavy, all those special commands, it needs
some time and we all know how much people are fascinated with quick
results. So, after a small shoot-em-up demo in it I abandoned it for a
more mature+simple platform (Blender Game Engine + Python).
Unfortunately, the environment was also a bit too heavy for a first
program, so I just thought "what the heck use QBasic and create just a
simple RL". In 2 hours, he was able to create a predefined map and move
a "@" in it.

So, you could just get a copy of a really simple language, together with
some tutorials (or even better, a printed book). The language doesn't
have to be a good one, just good enough to get you started (ouch, don't
want this to sound as a flame...). Programming the basics of a roguelike
is very easy (that's why there are 7DRLs but no 7DMMORPGs) and it makes
you feel very confident

code on
--
Giorgos
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

kalle.olli.DeleteThis@saunalahti.fi wrote:
> Played ADOM ~100 hours and my dream is to make working RL game, i have
> little to nothing codeing knowledge / skills so what is best program to
> start with? 2D and ASCII is both fine to me.

I think the first thing to do is decide on a programming language you
wish to use. Popular choices that would serve you well would be C,
C++, and Python. Second, find a good tutorial on these languages and
learn as much as you can before you even start thinking about what
features you want to put in your game. Third, once you become familiar
with the basic constructs of the language (loops, procedures, etc...)
give yourself some small projects to work on: get a board displaying on
the screen. Put a character on it and get it so you can move him
around. Build up incrementally, one small piece at a time. Add new
features as you go along. If you get stuck on something, look online,
or ask here for help.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

I've seen many posts about how the engine is 10% of the work, the
content is 90% of the work. I so wish there was some kind of RL engine
that non-programmers could actually use to create cool RL's. I _love_
making content, coming up with rulesets, spells, names, places,
objects, themes, even graphics, but will never be able to code... it's
just not my cup o tea.

Tarindel wrote:
> kalle.olli.RemoveThis@saunalahti.fi wrote:
> > Played ADOM ~100 hours and my dream is to make working RL game, i have
> > little to nothing codeing knowledge / skills so what is best program to
> > start with? 2D and ASCII is both fine to me.
>
> I think the first thing to do is decide on a programming language you
> wish to use. Popular choices that would serve you well would be C,
> C++, and Python. Second, find a good tutorial on these languages and
> learn as much as you can before you even start thinking about what
> features you want to put in your game. Third, once you become familiar
> with the basic constructs of the language (loops, procedures, etc...)
> give yourself some small projects to work on: get a board displaying on
> the screen. Put a character on it and get it so you can move him
> around. Build up incrementally, one small piece at a time. Add new
> features as you go along. If you get stuck on something, look online,
> or ask here for help.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

kalle.olli DeleteThis @saunalahti.fi schrieb:
> Played ADOM ~100 hours and my dream is to make working RL game, i have
> little to nothing codeing knowledge / skills so what is best program to
> start with? 2D and ASCII is both fine to me.

Please, NOT AGAIN!
Now everyone will jump out of the woodwork just to recommend his
favorite programming language! We have such threads every other month here!

We really need an FAQ/Guide for this kind of question IMO. It should
contain pointers to tutorials, solutions to common problems, example
source code etc.. I can write a basic roguelikish program in BASIC that
fits on a single page. In fact I will do this right now as a first
contribution to the guide, which I will start at roguebasin soon after.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

plague wrote:
> I so wish there was some kind of RL engine
> that non-programmers could actually use to create cool RL's.

In 2 weeks, plague will write:
> Hi all, i have decided to solve a problem many of us are facing and write a generic
> RL engine that everyone, even non-programmers, can use to create every kind of
> Roguelike they want. I have thought about names, but I'm still not sure- I am down to 2
> options: GenRogue and ShockFrost.
>
> plague.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

plague kirjoitti:
> I've seen many posts about how the engine is 10% of the work, the
> content is 90% of the work.

Not entirely true, because in roguelikes the engine will be creating
random game content. I would say in roguelikes the engine is 90%
of the work. At least it seems to be in my project...
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

Martin Read wrote:
> "Generic engines" don't, as a rule, produce cool games.

"Generic engines" don't, as a rule, produce _any_ game.

Well, at least not in the RL scene AFAIK.

Ido.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

plague wrote:
> I've seen many posts about how the engine is 10% of the work, the
> content is 90% of the work. I so wish there was some kind of RL engine
> that non-programmers could actually use to create cool RL's.

Isn't the Tome engine supposed to be good for this sort of thing?

Or *bands through editing the data files, if you're willing to settle
for that...

A.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

"copx" <this_is_not_a_real_address.RemoveThis@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:ee2g75$hsf$01$1@news.t-online.com...
> kalle.olli.RemoveThis@saunalahti.fi schrieb:
>> Played ADOM ~100 hours and my dream is to make working RL game, i have
>> little to nothing codeing knowledge / skills so what is best program to
>> start with? 2D and ASCII is both fine to me.

<snip>

> We really need an FAQ/Guide for this kind of question IMO. It should
> contain pointers to tutorials, solutions to common problems, example
> source code etc..

R.G.R.D FAQ. Sounds like a great idea.

> I can write a basic roguelikish program in BASIC that fits on a single
> page. In fact I will do this right now as a first contribution to the
> guide, which I will start at roguebasin soon after.

Reminds me of the 1kb Roguelike http://www.spheredev.org/wiki/1kb_Rogue
--
Elsairon
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

Crypt wrote:
> >"Generic engines" don't, as a rule, produce _any_ game.
<snip>
> I see no rational reason to say that a G.E cannot produce a game.

I didn't mean they _cannot_ produce a game, just that they more often
then not don't.

How many times did we hear about somwone developing a new and exciting
generic rl engine?
How many roguelikes have we seen made with such an engine?

Ido.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

Antoine wrote:
> Or *bands through editing the data files, if you're willing to settle
> for that...

The large number of Angband-variants shows us why engine (of
any kind, not just "general" ones) is so important part of a roguelike.
I guess there are some people with ideas about content of the
gameplay, but without engine they can't make it happen or they
are in the same situation like most of us, in the middle of
development:)
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

copx schrieb:
> kalle.olli DeleteThis @saunalahti.fi schrieb:
>> Played ADOM ~100 hours and my dream is to make working RL game, i have
>> little to nothing codeing knowledge / skills so what is best program to
>> start with? 2D and ASCII is both fine to me.
>
> Please, NOT AGAIN!
> Now everyone will jump out of the woodwork just to recommend his
> favorite programming language! We have such threads every other month here!
>
> We really need an FAQ/Guide for this kind of question IMO. It should
> contain pointers to tutorials, solutions to common problems, example
> source code etc.. I can write a basic roguelikish program in BASIC that
> fits on a single page. In fact I will do this right now as a first
> contribution to the guide, which I will start at roguebasin soon after.

So here it is! This is were I started about three years ago.
The game is written in yabasic because I think the language is perfect
for a total newbie. You can download yabasic here: http://yabasic.de/
Run my program and be impressed
After you have overcome your awe you can follow the links on the
yabasic site to one of the tutorials, and sooner than you might think
you will understand what the following stuff means (this is the
program code, just and copy and past it into notepad/your text editor
and save it as "rogue.yab" - you can execute yab files once yabasic
is installed)


#
# Norwegian Forest 1.0 by copx
#
# This is a simple roguelike demo program that allows
# the player the move an '@' around in a randomly
# generated forest
#
# To move use the number pad i.e. '4','6','8','2'
# If you want to terminate the program press 'x'
#


#
# setting up some variables (i.e. program data)
#

# the map
map_height = 20
map_width = 42
dim map(map_height, map_width)
number_of_tiles = 2
tree = 0
floor = 1

# the player position
player_x = 10
player_y = 10


#
# program initialization
# i.e. clearing the screen and generating a random map
#
clear screen
generate_random_map()


#
# the main game loop
# this loop repeats until the player terminates the program
#
do

render_screen()

player_command()

loop


#
# generate_random_map() sub program
#
# generates a random map - a nice snowy forest!
#
sub generate_random_map()

for y = 0 to map_height step 1
for x = 0 to map_width step 1

random_number = int(ran() * number_of_tiles)

if (random_number = 1) then
map(y, x) = tree
elsif (random_number = 0) then
map(y, x) = floor
endif

next x
next y

end sub


#
# render_screen() sub program
#
# renders the map and the player character
#
sub render_screen()

for y = 0 to map_height step 1
for x = 0 to map_width step 1

if (map(y, x) = tree) then
print color("green") at(x, y) "T";
elsif (map(y, x) = floor) then
print color("white") at(x, y) ".";
endif

next x
next y

print color("cyan") at(player_x, player_y) "@"

end sub


#
# player_command() sub program
#
# lets the player enter a command by pressing a key
# and executes the command
#
sub player_command()

pressed_key$ = inkey$

if (pressed_key$ = "2") then
player_y = player_y + 1
elsif (pressed_key$ = "8") then
player_y = player_y - 1
elsif (pressed_key$ = "6") then
player_x = player_x + 1
elseif (pressed_key$ = "4") then
player_x = player_x - 1
elseif (pressed_key$ = "x") then
exit
end if

end sub
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game? 

>"Generic engines" don't, as a rule, produce _any_ game.


This pseudo rule is non-sense.
Generic engines take more time because they need a lot of flexibility. So they
are harder to make.

I see no rational reason to say that a G.E cannot produce a game.

The same is true for generic roleplaying rule sets (pen & paper) => they are
harder to create than specific rules (flexibility=> new traps) but they exist.
 >> Stay informed about: How to start making own Roguelike game?