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sporesower thallid vs faiths fetters, and terramorphic exp..

 
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rickh

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Since: Nov 10, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:22 pm
Post subject: sporesower thallid vs faiths fetters, and terramorphic expanse
Archived from groups: rec>games>trading-cards>magic>rules (more info?)

Does a Sporesower Thallid with Faiths Fetters on it still put spore
counters on fungii during it's owners upkeep? i.e. is it an activated
ability? I say it is activated because something (upkeep) triggers it.
My freinds sayit is not activated because there is no cost associated
with the ability.
Also Terramorphic expanse; can you sac it the turn you play it? I've
always thought lands can be used the turn you play them, but at a
recent tournament the consensus seemed to be you had to wait till next
turn to use them.


TIA Rick H

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David DeLaney

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Since: Jun 19, 2004
Posts: 996



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:12 pm
Post subject: Re: sporesower thallid vs faiths fetters, and terramorphic expanse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 15:22:11 -0800, rickh <harrison6723.RemoveThis@rogers.com> wrote:
>Does a Sporesower Thallid with Faiths Fetters on it still put spore
>counters on fungii during it's owners upkeep? i.e. is it an activated
>ability? I say it is activated because something (upkeep) triggers it.

Okay, we have here a misunderstanding.

Triggered abilities are never activated abilities, and vice versa; they
are two separate kinds of ability. The rulebook tells you how to tell whether
an ability is one or the other (and if it's not, it tells you that the rest
are static abilities [402.2]).

Sporesower Thallid's first ability is triggered; its second ability is
activated. There are no "triggered activated abilities"; anything that
something triggers is a triggered ability, not an activated one.

If you put a Faith's Fetters on a Sporesower Thallid, that stops you from
playing its second ability. Its first ability is unaffected, and you never
_play_ that ability anyway; triggered abilities aren't ever "played" [404.2].
So the Thallid will still accumulate spore counters on your upkeep, but you
will be unable to remove them to pay the cost of the second ability, because
you can't play that second ability.

>My freinds sayit is not activated because there is no cost associated
>with the ability.

Right answer but wrong reason. It's not activated because it's triggered.
It's true that triggered abilities have no costs paid on triggering, but
that isn't their defining characteristic; the triggering part is.

> Also Terramorphic expanse; can you sac it the turn you play it?

Sure. Unless something turns it into a creature that turn, in which case
it finds it's affected by summoning sickness and can't use its Tap-cost
activated ability.

>I've always thought lands can be used the turn you play them, but at a
>recent tournament the consensus seemed to be you had to wait till next
>turn to use them.

That 'consensus' is missing some facts. Only creatures have the restriction
that they can't use tap-cost activated abilities, or attack, unless they've
started their controller's turn under his control. Noncreatures have no such
restriction. And it's only activated abilities with the Tap symbol in their
costs that they can't use; other activated abilities, like Dragon Engine's
"2: Dragon Engine gets +1/+0 until end of turn.", are fine to use, and
triggered and static abilities are unaffected.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd.RemoveThis@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

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Zoe Stephenson

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Since: Mar 30, 2006
Posts: 124



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:03 am
Post subject: Re: sporesower thallid vs faiths fetters, and terramorphic expanse [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

rickh <harrison6723 RemoveThis @rogers.com> sent:
> Does a Sporesower Thallid with Faiths Fetters on it still put spore
> counters on fungii during it's owners upkeep? i.e. is it an activated
> ability? I say it is activated because something (upkeep) triggers it.
> My freinds sayit is not activated because there is no cost associated
> with the ability.

Sporesower Thallid {2}{G}{G} Creature - Fungus 4/4
/ At the beginning of your upkeep, put a spore counter on each Fungus
you control.
/ Remove three spore counters from Sporesower Thallid: Put a 1/1 green
Saproling creature token into play.

Faith's Fetters {3}{W} Enchantment - Aura
/ Enchant permanent
/ When Faith's Fetters comes into play, you gain 4 life.
/ Enchanted permanent's activated abilities can't be played unless
they're mana abilities. If enchanted permanent is a creature, it
can't attack or block.

The Sporesower Thallid has two abilities. The first one is a triggered
ability that puts a spore counter on each Fungus you control, including
itself. This ability is triggered by the start of your upkeep step.
This is indicated by the wording "At the beginning of your upkeep", as
defined in rule 404.1 of the Comprehensive Rules. Since it is not an
activated ability, it does not get noticed in any way by Faith's
Fetters. It continues to work just fine.

The second ability on the Sporesower Thallid is an activated ability.
If the Sporesower Thallid is enchanted by Faith's Fetters, you cannot
remove three spore counters from the Sporesower Thallid to put a 1/1
green Saproling creature token into play.

In general, an ability like "When..." or "Whenever..." or "At..." is a
triggered ability, an ability like "{3}: ..." or "Remove three spore
counters from this permanent: ..." or anything else with that colon in
it is an activated ability, and everything else is a static ability.

> Also Terramorphic expanse; can you sac it the turn you play it? I've
> always thought lands can be used the turn you play them, but at a
> recent tournament the consensus seemed to be you had to wait till next
> turn to use them.

Terramorphic Expanse Land
/ {T}, Sacrifice Terramorphic Expanse: Search your library for a basic
land card and put it into play tapped. Then shuffle your library.

You can play the activated ability on Terramorphic Expanse as soon as
it comes into play, as long as something else isn't causing it to also
be a creature (otherwise it would be affected by summoning sickness and
have to wait until the beginning of your next turn) and as long as
something didn't cause it to come into play tapped (otherwise you
couldn't pay all of its cost.)

It's only creatures that are prevented from having their activated
abilities with {T} in the cost from being played unless they're in play
continuously under their controller's control since the beginning of
that player's most recent turn, and similarly for declaring the
creatures as attackers. Everything else can be done pretty much
immediately.

It's good practice to use the Terramorphic Expanse ability at the end
of the previous player's turn, rather than straight away on your own
turn, just in case there's something that the opponent does that might
influence which type of land you go and fetch - all assuming that
there's more than one type of basic land in the deck.

--
-- Zoe Stephenson, NetRep rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Group FAQ: http://www.daeghnao.com/magic/faq/ --
--
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