Can't take skilled talent?

> I've been trying to make a gray elf bard.
> I wanted to take skilled talent (+2 to all initial skilled value).
> Unfortunately every time I do that, I get an adom.err file saying sth
> about illegal skill values.

It is a well know bug, sorry.

 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

On Dec 3, 12:40 am, Darren Grey <darrenjohng... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 2, 10:29 pm, "newbie" <luka... RemoveThis @poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I've been trying to make a gray elf bard.
> > I wanted to take skilled talent (+2 to all initial skilled value).
> > Unfortunately every time I do that, I get an adom.err file saying sth about
> > illegal skill values.
>
> Unfortunately an unavoidable bug in the game - you'll have to choose
> different talents.
>
> --
> Darren Grey

Well..one could use ToGu's unofficial patch for Adom 1.1.1 Winbeta4:

"The following changes were made:
* Monsters no longer reach as high experience levels.
* Monsters no longer fight in a blind rage.
* Artifacts available in a game are now random like they're supposed
to be.
* The 'skilled' talents no longer crash the game
(Their effects are twice what's listed in the manual though,
this hasn't been changed.)"

http://folk.ntnu.no/houeland/adom/
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

On Dec 3, 7:45 pm, Sardaukar <sardauka....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 3, 12:40 am, Darren Grey <darrenjohng....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 2, 10:29 pm, "newbie" <luka....DeleteThis@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
>
> > > Hi,
> > > I've been trying to make a gray elf bard.
> > > I wanted to take skilled talent (+2 to all initial skilled value).
> > > Unfortunately every time I do that, I get an adom.err file saying sth about
> > > illegal skill values.
>
> > Unfortunately an unavoidable bug in the game - you'll have to choose
> > different talents.
>
> Well..one could use ToGu's unofficial patch for Adom 1.1.1 Winbeta4:
>
> "The following changes were made:
> * Monsters no longer reach as high experience levels.
> * Monsters no longer fight in a blind rage.
> * Artifacts available in a game are now random like they're supposed
> to be.
> * The 'skilled' talents no longer crash the game
> (Their effects are twice what's listed in the manual though,
> this hasn't been changed.)"
>
> http://folk.ntnu.no/houeland/adom/

Except using the patch can be considered cheating, or at the very
least playing an easier version of the game than everyone else has.
And TB has personally disapproved of it and other similar patches.
Whilst I certainly understand why people would use it, it shouldn't be
suggested to someone new without letting them know the full
implications.

Anyway, the patch applies to the WinBeta, and everyone should be using
ADOM Sage instead More secure with lots of nice features (without
affecting game mechanics in any way).

--
Darren Grey
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

newbie wrote:

> Hi,
> I've been trying to make a gray elf bard.
> I wanted to take skilled talent (+2 to all initial skilled value).
> Unfortunately every time I do that, I get an adom.err file saying sth
> about illegal skill values.

There are also some other bugs you might want to know about (though it is a
bit spoily):
rgra bug list: http://www.geocities.com/adombugs
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

Darren Grey wrote:
> On Dec 3, 7:45 pm, Sardaukar <sardauka... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 3, 12:40 am, Darren Grey <darrenjohng... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Dec 2, 10:29 pm, "newbie" <luka... DeleteThis @poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I've been trying to make a gray elf bard.
>>>> I wanted to take skilled talent (+2 to all initial skilled value).
>>>> Unfortunately every time I do that, I get an adom.err file saying sth about
>>>> illegal skill values.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately an unavoidable bug in the game - you'll have to choose
>>> different talents.
>>
>> Well..one could use ToGu's unofficial patch for Adom 1.1.1 Winbeta4:
>>
>> http://folk.ntnu.no/houeland/adom/

The new site is http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~houeland/adom/ which will continue to
work when I'm no longer a student. However, there are still no updates as I
haven't touched ADOM in a long time

> Except using the patch can be considered cheating, or at the very
> least playing an easier version of the game than everyone else has.
> And TB has personally disapproved of it and other similar patches.
> Whilst I certainly understand why people would use it, it shouldn't be
> suggested to someone new without letting them know the full
> implications.

Yes, this has been discussed to death. The patch is available, and it changes
the game to be a bit more like I think it was meant to be, based on gameplay in
previous versions and obvious bugs found in the code.

The game is perfectly playable without it (Don't take the skilled talent. Run
away from jackals, they are more dangerous than dragons.), and I wouldn't mind
changing or removing the patch if TB emailed me about it.

(Simply disabling berserking is obviously wrong and not a change I'm
particularly happy with, but berserking needs to be recoded. I didn't find an
easy way to fix it that removed the internal game-state problems.)

> Anyway, the patch applies to the WinBeta, and everyone should be using
> ADOM Sage instead More secure with lots of nice features (without
> affecting game mechanics in any way).

It applies to both winbeta4 and the Linux ELF version (which is used by ADOM Sage).

- ToGu
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

On Dec 5, 4:59 pm, ToGu <no....TakeThisOut@nowhere.net> wrote:
> Darren Grey wrote:
> > On Dec 3, 7:45 pm, Sardaukar <sardauka....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 3, 12:40 am, Darren Grey <darrenjohng....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Dec 2, 10:29 pm, "newbie" <luka....TakeThisOut@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> I've been trying to make a gray elf bard.
> >>>> I wanted to take skilled talent (+2 to all initial skilled value).
> >>>> Unfortunately every time I do that, I get an adom.err file saying sth about
> >>>> illegal skill values.
>
> >>> Unfortunately an unavoidable bug in the game - you'll have to choose
> >>> different talents.
>
> >> Well..one could use ToGu's unofficial patch for Adom 1.1.1 Winbeta4:
>
> >>http://folk.ntnu.no/houeland/adom/
>
> The new site ishttp://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~houeland/adom/which will continue to
> work when I'm no longer a student. However, there are still no updates as I
> haven't touched ADOM in a long time
>
> > Except using the patch can be considered cheating, or at the very
> > least playing an easier version of the game than everyone else has.
> > And TB has personally disapproved of it and other similar patches.
> > Whilst I certainly understand why people would use it, it shouldn't be
> > suggested to someone new without letting them know the full
> > implications.
>
> Yes, this has been discussed to death. The patch is available, and it changes
> the game to be a bit more like I think it was meant to be, based on gameplay in
> previous versions and obvious bugs found in the code.
>
> The game is perfectly playable without it (Don't take the skilled talent. Run
> away from jackals, they are more dangerous than dragons.), and I wouldn't mind
> changing or removing the patch if TB emailed me about it.
>
> (Simply disabling berserking is obviously wrong and not a change I'm
> particularly happy with, but berserking needs to be recoded. I didn't find an
> easy way to fix it that removed the internal game-state problems.)
>
> > Anyway, the patch applies to the WinBeta, and everyone should be using
> > ADOM Sage instead More secure with lots of nice features (without
> > affecting game mechanics in any way).
>
> It applies to both winbeta4 and the Linux ELF version (which is used by ADOM Sage).
>
> - ToGu

I agree with ToGu. I also understand the issues about modifying the
game..or even more infamous issues like using AdomBot.

I use this patch to control one of the worst aspects of ADOM, infamous
uberjackal effect. If I recall correctly, even Creator TB said it was
bug/unintended feature. If I ever post YAVP (never won the game, just
having casual game now and then), I'd of course say it's ToGu-patched.
But since I'm only casual ADOMer, furthest I have gotten is to Cat
Lord with Grey Elven Barbarian.

Artifact correction is also nice.

If TB ever gets back to ADOM (or Jade..), of course I'll use his
latest. But since support is non-existant right now, I have no issues
with using patch that helps me enjoy the game more.
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

On 2 Dec, 23:14, "Getix" <Ge... DeleteThis @tin.it.nonloso.it> wrote:
> > I've been trying to make a gray elf bard.
> > I wanted to take skilled talent (+2 to all initial skilled value).
> > Unfortunately every time I do that, I get an adom.err file saying sth
> > about illegal skill values.
>
> It is a well know bug, sorry.
>

This is one of the most compelling reasons, why TB should provide the
next version. I would be happy, if a new version came out fixing just
this single bug
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

>> >>> Unfortunately an unavoidable bug in the game - you'll have to choose
>> >>> different talents.
>>
>> >> Well..one could use ToGu's unofficial patch for Adom 1.1.1 Winbeta4:
>>
>> >>http://folk.ntnu.no/houeland/adom/
>>
>> The new site ishttp://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~houeland/adom/which will continue
>> to
>> work when I'm no longer a student. However, there are still no updates as
>> I
>> haven't touched ADOM in a long time
>>
>> > Except using the patch can be considered cheating, or at the very
>> > least playing an easier version of the game than everyone else has.
>> > And TB has personally disapproved of it and other similar patches.
>> > Whilst I certainly understand why people would use it, it shouldn't be
>> > suggested to someone new without letting them know the full
>> > implications.
>>
>> Yes, this has been discussed to death. The patch is available, and it
>> changes
>> the game to be a bit more like I think it was meant to be, based on
>> gameplay in
>> previous versions and obvious bugs found in the code.
>>
>> The game is perfectly playable without it (Don't take the skilled talent.
>> Run
>> away from jackals, they are more dangerous than dragons.), and I wouldn't
>> mind
>> changing or removing the patch if TB emailed me about it.
>>
>> (Simply disabling berserking is obviously wrong and not a change I'm
>> particularly happy with, but berserking needs to be recoded. I didn't
>> find an
>> easy way to fix it that removed the internal game-state problems.)
>>
>> > Anyway, the patch applies to the WinBeta, and everyone should be using
>> > ADOM Sage instead More secure with lots of nice features (without
>> > affecting game mechanics in any way).
>>
>> It applies to both winbeta4 and the Linux ELF version (which is used by
>> ADOM Sage).
>>
>> - ToGu
>
> I agree with ToGu. I also understand the issues about modifying the
> game..or even more infamous issues like using AdomBot.
>
> I use this patch to control one of the worst aspects of ADOM, infamous
> uberjackal effect. If I recall correctly, even Creator TB said it was
> bug/unintended feature. If I ever post YAVP (never won the game, just
> having casual game now and then), I'd of course say it's ToGu-patched.
> But since I'm only casual ADOMer, furthest I have gotten is to Cat
> Lord with Grey Elven Barbarian.
>
> Artifact correction is also nice.
>
> If TB ever gets back to ADOM (or Jade..), of course I'll use his
> latest. But since support is non-existant right now, I have no issues
> with using patch that helps me enjoy the game more.

Just my opinion
-fixing skilled bug is good
-fixing artifacts is nice
-disabling berserking is ok, since it is buggy
-"fixing" uberjackal effect is wrong, however. This is not a bug, but a
feature, and not a buggy one. IMO this feature brings a new dimension into
the game, which is always good
-what i would expect from the patch as well, is to provide the 180, 270, and
360 day limits how they are intended. Now that would make victory a bit
thougher, without affecting gameplay in the early and mid game stages.

Can you at least provide some sort of settings, so players can choose which
features of the patch they want to use, please.
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent? 

Pavel Mencik wrote:
>>>> Using the patch can be considered cheating, or at the very
>>>> least playing an easier version of the game than everyone else has.
>>>> And TB has personally disapproved of it and other similar patches.
>>>> Whilst I certainly understand why people would use it, it shouldn't be
>>>> suggested to someone new without letting them know the full
>>>> implications.
>>>
>>> Yes, this has been discussed to death. The patch is available, and it
>>> changes the game to be a bit more like I think it was meant to be, based on
>>> gameplay in previous versions and obvious bugs found in the code.
>>>
>>> The game is perfectly playable without it (Don't take the skilled talent.
>>> Run away from jackals, they are more dangerous than dragons.), and I wouldn't
>>> mind changing or removing the patch if TB emailed me about it.
>>>
>
> Just my opinion
> -fixing skilled bug is good
> -fixing artifacts is nice
> -disabling berserking is ok, since it is buggy
> -"fixing" uberjackal effect is wrong, however. This is not a bug, but a
> feature, and not a buggy one. IMO this feature brings a new dimension into
> the game, which is always good
> -what i would expect from the patch as well, is to provide the 180, 270, and
> 360 day limits how they are intended. Now that would make victory a bit
> thougher, without affecting gameplay in the early and mid game stages.

The skilled talent bug is a simple fix and should not be very controversial.
(The only part being that the code is bugged even after removing the crash,
adding the benefit at two separate places in the code. This doesn't exactly make
the talent game-breakingly good though )


Non-random artifact availability is an ancient bug, and fixing it alters
gameplay. However, it's unintentional and the bug was very obvious in the
randomization code.


Berserking should have been fixed, but requires significant work.


The uberjackal change was quite controversial, and I think some of it stems from
not knowing exactly what it does. If you play like you should do in the
unpatched version, killing less than about a thousand monsters of the same type,
there is absolutely no difference.

The patch simply stops the monsters from growing too powerful compared to the
original version. Monsters are capped at reaching around a hundred times more
hitpoints than the lvl 1 version first encountered. At the time it reaches this
patched-in cap, a jackal becomes much more tedious to kill than a dragon, while
the loot remains worthless in comparison. More to the point, repeatedly killing
the same kind of monster is not something you want to do on purpose even with
the patch.


I agree that fixing the 3-month corruption rate increases is something that
should have been done if it's a bug. I have not looked at that part of the code,
and I don't think I even knew that it was unintentional at the time. The patch
is almost 4 years old, and has not been changed since then.

> Can you at least provide some sort of settings, so players can choose which
> features of the patch they want to use, please.

This would have been easy to do, but it would make the problem with having
different variants much worse. The released patch contains the set of changes I
thought should be added. You may not agree, but I think it was an improvement.

However, having a player decide that he wants "randomized artifacts, stronger
wyrms, guaranteed aols in the pyramid, pink colored wererats" is not desirable.
Simply allowing my 4 changes to be toggled on/off independently would create 15
subtly different variants instead of one.

A pure bugfix patch might be beneficial, which changed the skilled crash, ingots
etc., but the bugs that can be easily fixed without making any decisions that
affect gameplay are pretty limited. It could still be valuable, but I didn't
make one.

- ToGu
 >> Stay informed about: Can't take skilled talent?