resupplying minelayers

> (Ship used ord at end of turn after normal ship transfer, so of course
> no transfer did happen afterwards, after all you do not transfer ord to
> and from the ship via CCs.)

Right, so ordnance will be transferred to the ship before the end of
the turn so that you will be able to lay a minefield as long as you
don't play with the ordnance settings. The client doesn't allow you to
change your ordnance settings if the current ordnance level is less
than what you want it at, but the setting remains in effect just in
case it does get enough ordnance during the turn. There are some
tricks to getting around this.

You may want to try fleet ordnance sharing as well. It works well and
at range. The ships don't need to be at the same point in space.
Ships that produce repair and/or ordnance with their ship devices are
great to hang back a little bit from a fleet or minelayers and have
sharing turned on.

Magik
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

Yes it makes so much sense that a ship A with a minelaying option
enabled from
last turn may be allowed to lay a new mf the next turn with everything
else being the same
as with ship B, which just does not have one enabled, which is not
allowed to do it, since if you do
not have ord on the ship at the beginning of a turn you cannot enable
any mf laying option.

Then again there are a whole lot of these things which do make as much
sense as the above - after all planets4 is very consistent concerning
these things.

Magik wrote:
> > (Ship used ord at end of turn after normal ship transfer, so of course
> > no transfer did happen afterwards, after all you do not transfer ord to
> > and from the ship via CCs.)
>
> Right, so ordnance will be transferred to the ship before the end of
> the turn so that you will be able to lay a minefield as long as you
> don't play with the ordnance settings. The client doesn't allow you to
> change your ordnance settings if the current ordnance level is less
> than what you want it at, but the setting remains in effect just in
> case it does get enough ordnance during the turn. There are some
> tricks to getting around this.
>
> You may want to try fleet ordnance sharing as well. It works well and
> at range. The ships don't need to be at the same point in space.
> Ships that produce repair and/or ordnance with their ship devices are
> great to hang back a little bit from a fleet or minelayers and have
> sharing turned on.
>
> Magik
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

lleerman.RemoveThis@yahoo.de wrote:
> Yes it makes so much sense that a ship A with a minelaying option
> enabled from
> last turn may be allowed to lay a new mf the next turn with everything
> else being the same
> as with ship B, which just does not have one enabled, which is not
> allowed to do it, since if you do
> not have ord on the ship at the beginning of a turn you cannot enable
> any mf laying option.
>
> Then again there are a whole lot of these things which do make as much
> sense as the above - after all planets4 is very consistent concerning
> these things.
>
> Magik wrote:
> > > (Ship used ord at end of turn after normal ship transfer, so of course
> > > no transfer did happen afterwards, after all you do not transfer ord to
> > > and from the ship via CCs.)
> >
> > Right, so ordnance will be transferred to the ship before the end of
> > the turn so that you will be able to lay a minefield as long as you
> > don't play with the ordnance settings. The client doesn't allow you to
> > change your ordnance settings if the current ordnance level is less
> > than what you want it at, but the setting remains in effect just in
> > case it does get enough ordnance during the turn. There are some
> > tricks to getting around this.
> >
> > You may want to try fleet ordnance sharing as well. It works well and
> > at range. The ships don't need to be at the same point in space.
> > Ships that produce repair and/or ordnance with their ship devices are
> > great to hang back a little bit from a fleet or minelayers and have
> > sharing turned on.
> >
> > Magik

Not yet tried but if in a group you may be able to use a ship already
laying a 1000 minefield and match to that so the empty ship can lay
that turn also.
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

> Not yet tried but if in a group you may be able to use a ship already
> laying a 1000 minefield and match to that so the empty ship can lay
> that turn also.

Which would then be just another example of the above mentioned
consistency and/or the lack of value/state checks when they would be
necessary.


ps. If anyone finds an 'in' please return it to the proper position.
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

Sebastian wrote:
> > case it does get enough ordnance during the turn. There are some
> > tricks to getting around this.
>
> Those are...? Mind share your knowledge?
>
> Greetings
> Sebastian

Well first of all we have to assume that Tims Client is used (well in
the moment not strictly necessary to assume that but in the event that
other clients are released we will have to) and then the ship which
shall lay a mf has the option to lay mfs enabled (from the last turn),
probably through the option which lets a ship continuesly lay mfs -
otherwise regardless what tricks he has in mind it won't work - aside
from maybe hacking the trn/rst file (and the two things mentioned in
the end).
These tricks, which are IMO no tricks, are:
- have a ship transfer Ord onto the ship.
- have a pod transfer ord to the ship.
- have another ship share ord with that ship
- Have another ship transfer ord to the ship.
All of the above at some time during the turn before minelaying
happens...
(I guess you got the general idea)

And last but not least there might be one way, aside from the one
mentioned by morningstar, to enable a ship to lay mfs eventhough
it has not the necessary options enabled at the beginning of a turn
(and no Ord).
And this goes this way:
- Have the ship transfer a sufficient amount of Ord to itself, so that
the client displays the Ord on the ship, but I do not remember if there
is a way to accombilish this.
- Enable the mf laying options
- Negate the transfer of Ord and the other things necessary so that the
ship had Ord and proceed with the above.
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

Limits are a good thing. However, there are times when limits can be a
pain.

For minelaying, the limit of current Ord in the hold should probably be
totally removed, perhaps adding a box that shows how much Ord is
currently held aboard.

For speed, on occasion, it would be nice to be able to set a higher
speed than the engine would allow (for those turns an Outfit Pod has an
upgrade scheduled). Possibly a switch similar to transfers, where you
can turn the limits on or off, could be added to the Nav screen.
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

Yes, you can use ship groups to set another ship's minelaying ordnance
level to the level that you want, but this means that you will need
another ship with full ordnance on board to be able to change your
setting or already be at a setting that you want. You can use the OPT
/ Make CSV Files to export Ship.csv and see what the levels are on all
of your ships (since you can't see it in the client). From there you
can put the ship that is at the level that you want in with a ship or
group of ships that you want to change the settings on and then have
them match.

Getting ordnance onto the ship has already been discussed and is not as
difficult as getting the setting that you want onto the ship.

Magik
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

> case it does get enough ordnance during the turn. There are some
> tricks to getting around this.

Those are...? Mind share your knowledge?

Greetings
Sebastian
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

My question is:

How to get a ship, that has not ord on board atm and no minefield laying
options enabled from the previous turn, order to lay a minefield.

That beaming up and down ord affects the current aviable ord stockpile on
the ship I do know.

Like morningstar told group commands might be a good choise (as they allow
more speed than current engine supports, too).

Greetings
Sebastian
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

I have just read down through all the so called tricks etc to allow
minefield laying for a ship that has no ord on board.

My idea requires a little fix from Tim but would kill all those tricks
above and allow new ships to lay mines at the end of the turn after
they are built.

It is a Client Change:
"Always display all the Minefield laying options on the Ship Screen. Do
not hide them with no ORD is on the ship." (Ord quantity could also be
displayed on this screen so user can see)

It is an order screen after all.
If you do not have enough ORD the HOST will not allow you to lay a
minefield.
If ORD is transfer to the ship later the minefield order shall be
completed.
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

> "Always display all the Minefield laying options on the Ship Screen. Do
> not hide them with no ORD is on the ship." (Ord quantity could also be
> displayed on this screen so user can see)

Right. I believe that was mentioned here and it is on the PlanetsWiki
feature requests or bugs (can't remember exactly).

Magik
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers 

Well I won't comment on the things below except for one or two
questions:
Do you think that there are more of these things (inconsistencies) in
the game?
And if yes were they already mentioned and have been just forgotten, or
is the community oblivous of these things?

(Don't expect any help from me concerning the answers - it was either
already given or won't be given)

Doc wrote:
> I have just read down through all the so called tricks etc to allow
> minefield laying for a ship that has no ord on board.
>
> My idea requires a little fix from Tim but would kill all those tricks
> above and allow new ships to lay mines at the end of the turn after
> they are built.
>
> It is a Client Change:
> "Always display all the Minefield laying options on the Ship Screen. Do
> not hide them with no ORD is on the ship." (Ord quantity could also be
> displayed on this screen so user can see)
>
> It is an order screen after all.
> If you do not have enough ORD the HOST will not allow you to lay a
> minefield.
> If ORD is transfer to the ship later the minefield order shall be
> completed.
 >> Stay informed about: resupplying minelayers