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First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real

 
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Author Message
Sammy

External


Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 708



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:56 pm
Post subject: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real
Archived from groups: alt>games>microsoft>flight-sim (more info?)

Hi all,

Yesterday I had the privelege and good fortune of experiencing a real
life trial instructional flight. This was an early birthday present
from my fiancee and her parents, and I'm not thinking of doing my PPL.

My instructor was a lovely older lady that had been flying since the
1950s. We took off from Hoxton Park in Sydney's west (YHOX), flew NW
then W almost to Warragamba Dam, turned S, and returned East to YHOX,
entered the circuit and landed. I got to do maybe a total of half a
minute of taxing (and did have trouble staying on the line), and flew
for about half the flight once my instructor had gotten us to altitude
(2000ft), set the throttle and trimmed. I probably flew half the total
flight and I did have a little trouble getting us down to 1400ft
because I kept drifting up.

It was gorgeous up there but for me at least it was very bumpy. I came
down with beads of sweat rolling down my forehead and it wasn't because
I was hot or scared. I got very motion sick (but fortunately not to the
point of throwing up or allowing myself to hand control back of the
aircraft, though I was glad it was coming to an end when we were
landing).

Naturally before going up and to make the most of my experience I had
practiced on FS2004. I my practice with Vista Australis and the clear
weather theme, and started from runway 34 which is the preferred
runway. I'd looked up the VFR guide for the Sydney basin, made sure I
was familiar with the 172 (not that I wasn't to start with) and made
sure the flight school was reputable. I also sim quite a bit so I know
what the instruments are and how they work (without which the entire
experience would have been no more than a joy flight)

On the day we had clear skies but a variable moderate wind, which meant
runway 16 was in use instead.

There many differences between the real thing and the simulator but
here are the ones that counted:

1) Even with turbulence to severe and variable winds, I'm not having to
spend time in flight sim making sure the plane continues to fly in a
straight line. There was no way on earth that the real Cessna 172 would
have flown in a straight line. My instructor certainly didn't seem to
think this was unusual. I really have nothing to gauge this by other
than hearing pilots say a properly trimmed plane will want to go back
to being wings level. Did I mention motion sickness? Next time (if
there is one) I won't forget to take a motion sickness pill.

2) Noise. I never have my computer up loud enough to make it difficult
to speak to someone in the same room. The headset cut out quite a bit
and it was definitely difficult to hear my instructor. Fortunately she
would point at the instruments quite a bit.

3) Cramped conditions. I'm not a small guy (average height but soft
drink belly). It was awkward keeping my feet off the rudder pedals. and
not having my legs hit the yoke.

4) Controls. I use a joystick and racing wheel pedals. Joystick to yoke
actually wasn't too different, but the rudder pedals with differential
brakes etc certainly were. All the controls were "heavier" than the
sim, but particularly the pedals. I'd like to get a better look at a
set of real Cessna pedals some time and actually have a fiddle to get a
feel for their "sensitivity" to use the flight sim term. I'd need a lot
more practice to learn to taxi.

5) Scenery - Vista Australis is not very like the real thing for this
suburban airport. The strip is right. The houses and roads are all
wrong (Western Sydney is a lot more populated with houses and a lot
less bush like, and there's a new motorway near this airport, which
incidentally is scheduled to close in 2008 unfortunately).

Okay so given that I've already said I don't want to persue a PPL but
do want to make my simming more realistic, here's my question:

To get more realistic, 2 and 3 are really easy to fix if I really want
to - turn up the computer volume, put stuff around me to make it more
cramped (not that I'm likely to want to do either of these). 4 is also
easy if I throw money at it (CH pro pedals and yoke, though I don't
fancy the AUD530 price tag). 5 I can live with (or I can pick areas
where there is better scenery to fly in YSSY is much better for
example).

The problem for me is 1 - flight dynamics in turbulence. I don't want
the actual motion since I find nothing fun about the motion sickness so
I don't have any want of a motion platform, but how do I make FS2004
fly more like the real thing with regards to turbulence?

For example would it be worth buying Weather Maker Professional or some
other weather product? (Anyone use WMP here?)

Needless to say I had an absolute blast despite the motion sickness and
would recommend a trial flight to any simmer with the means. It cost me
less than the average flight sim addon. Naturually do pick someone
experienced and safe though.

 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
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Sammy

External


Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 708



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:10 am
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Oh one thing I forgot to add. I mis-identified the pair of Beechcraft
Skippers at the airport. I thought they were Piper Tomahawks. When I
went back and looked it up on the web it turns out there isn't an
FS2004 Skipper available (that I could find) but there were FS2000 and
FS2002 versions.

I was both amused that I could only identify aircraft I'd seen in the
sim, and embarassed that I could think anything without an all glass
cockpit was a Tomahawk.

 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
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Canuck

External


Since: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 119



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Interesting read and somewhat similar to my experience.
1. elderly lady instructor
2. Some taxiing and surprised as to how difficult it was
3. 50% flight one at altitude
4. Constant corrections to direction
I was surprised that you say the contols were heavy though, I found them
unbelievably light. I was only in a Cessna 152 and it came as a shock that
there was not the same sense of feedback you get when turning as that which
you get in a car on a road.
The other thing which stunned me was the not being able to see the ground
very well due to pollution. It was a sunny day with littel to no cloud. I
flew out of Stapleford, London and headed east towards Southend which wasn't
too bad but when we returned West towards London, the filth in the air was
so apparant. In fact we could not even see Stapleford until we were almost
on top of it.
The other thing which sticks in my mind was the need for vigilence, there
are so many other a/c up there at the same time I felt I needed eyes in the
back of my head. On two occasions on the return leg light twins buzzed us
and they seemed to appear out of nowhere.


"Sammy" <syousef.DeleteThis@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1144650431.812600.287140@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday I had the privelege and good fortune of experiencing a real
> life trial instructional flight. This was an early birthday present
> from my fiancee and her parents, and I'm not thinking of doing my PPL.
>
> My instructor was a lovely older lady that had been flying since the
> 1950s. We took off from Hoxton Park in Sydney's west (YHOX), flew NW
> then W almost to Warragamba Dam, turned S, and returned East to YHOX,
> entered the circuit and landed. I got to do maybe a total of half a
> minute of taxing (and did have trouble staying on the line), and flew
> for about half the flight once my instructor had gotten us to altitude
> (2000ft), set the throttle and trimmed. I probably flew half the total
> flight and I did have a little trouble getting us down to 1400ft
> because I kept drifting up.
>
> It was gorgeous up there but for me at least it was very bumpy. I came
> down with beads of sweat rolling down my forehead and it wasn't because
> I was hot or scared. I got very motion sick (but fortunately not to the
> point of throwing up or allowing myself to hand control back of the
> aircraft, though I was glad it was coming to an end when we were
> landing).
>
> Naturally before going up and to make the most of my experience I had
> practiced on FS2004. I my practice with Vista Australis and the clear
> weather theme, and started from runway 34 which is the preferred
> runway. I'd looked up the VFR guide for the Sydney basin, made sure I
> was familiar with the 172 (not that I wasn't to start with) and made
> sure the flight school was reputable. I also sim quite a bit so I know
> what the instruments are and how they work (without which the entire
> experience would have been no more than a joy flight)
>
> On the day we had clear skies but a variable moderate wind, which meant
> runway 16 was in use instead.
>
> There many differences between the real thing and the simulator but
> here are the ones that counted:
>
> 1) Even with turbulence to severe and variable winds, I'm not having to
> spend time in flight sim making sure the plane continues to fly in a
> straight line. There was no way on earth that the real Cessna 172 would
> have flown in a straight line. My instructor certainly didn't seem to
> think this was unusual. I really have nothing to gauge this by other
> than hearing pilots say a properly trimmed plane will want to go back
> to being wings level. Did I mention motion sickness? Next time (if
> there is one) I won't forget to take a motion sickness pill.
>
> 2) Noise. I never have my computer up loud enough to make it difficult
> to speak to someone in the same room. The headset cut out quite a bit
> and it was definitely difficult to hear my instructor. Fortunately she
> would point at the instruments quite a bit.
>
> 3) Cramped conditions. I'm not a small guy (average height but soft
> drink belly). It was awkward keeping my feet off the rudder pedals. and
> not having my legs hit the yoke.
>
> 4) Controls. I use a joystick and racing wheel pedals. Joystick to yoke
> actually wasn't too different, but the rudder pedals with differential
> brakes etc certainly were. All the controls were "heavier" than the
> sim, but particularly the pedals. I'd like to get a better look at a
> set of real Cessna pedals some time and actually have a fiddle to get a
> feel for their "sensitivity" to use the flight sim term. I'd need a lot
> more practice to learn to taxi.
>
> 5) Scenery - Vista Australis is not very like the real thing for this
> suburban airport. The strip is right. The houses and roads are all
> wrong (Western Sydney is a lot more populated with houses and a lot
> less bush like, and there's a new motorway near this airport, which
> incidentally is scheduled to close in 2008 unfortunately).
>
> Okay so given that I've already said I don't want to persue a PPL but
> do want to make my simming more realistic, here's my question:
>
> To get more realistic, 2 and 3 are really easy to fix if I really want
> to - turn up the computer volume, put stuff around me to make it more
> cramped (not that I'm likely to want to do either of these). 4 is also
> easy if I throw money at it (CH pro pedals and yoke, though I don't
> fancy the AUD530 price tag). 5 I can live with (or I can pick areas
> where there is better scenery to fly in YSSY is much better for
> example).
>
> The problem for me is 1 - flight dynamics in turbulence. I don't want
> the actual motion since I find nothing fun about the motion sickness so
> I don't have any want of a motion platform, but how do I make FS2004
> fly more like the real thing with regards to turbulence?
>
> For example would it be worth buying Weather Maker Professional or some
> other weather product? (Anyone use WMP here?)
>
> Needless to say I had an absolute blast despite the motion sickness and
> would recommend a trial flight to any simmer with the means. It cost me
> less than the average flight sim addon. Naturually do pick someone
> experienced and safe though.
>
 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
Back to top
Login to vote
Sammy

External


Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 708



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:38 am
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Thanks for the reply Canuck.

To me, the controls felt lighter than a car without power stearing but
heavier than a car with power steering. But then I was constantly
fighting gusts to stay still. No problem seeing the ground though. We
spent most of the flight between 1400 and 2000ft and it was a bright
cloudless sunny day. Pollution was nowhere to be seen. Sydney still has
days like that though they're getting to be rarer. I think the time of
year makes a huge difference to pollution. We're in mid autumn here and
the air's cooling. Also according to my instructor the time of day
makes a big difference to turbulence. She told me to expect that much
turbulence in the afternoon and that therefore the best time of day for
students learning to fly was the morning.

I'd love to spend some time in a real plane learning to taxi. I suspect
it wouldnt' take too long to get use to it - perhaps a few hours.
However it's very different to how it feels in the sim so the sim
probably is a little detrimental to getting a feel for it. In fact I'd
still like to get FS2004 feeling more real in the way the aircraft
handles. I can't see MS doing that with FSX unfortunately.

Totally agree with you about other traffic. I was also suprised how
crowded it was up there. I guess we shouldn't be too shocked given the
default AI traffic in FS2004 though.
 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
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Tim

External


Since: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 17



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:55 am
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Sammy" <syousef.RemoveThis@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1144672702.663733.63320@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the reply Canuck.
>
> To me, the controls felt lighter than a car without power stearing but
> heavier than a car with power steering. But then I was constantly
> fighting gusts to stay still. No problem seeing the ground though. We
> spent most of the flight between 1400 and 2000ft and it was a bright
> cloudless sunny day. Pollution was nowhere to be seen. Sydney still has
> days like that though they're getting to be rarer. I think the time of
> year makes a huge difference to pollution. We're in mid autumn here and
> the air's cooling. Also according to my instructor the time of day
> makes a big difference to turbulence. She told me to expect that much
> turbulence in the afternoon and that therefore the best time of day for
> students learning to fly was the morning.
>
> I'd love to spend some time in a real plane learning to taxi. I suspect
> it wouldnt' take too long to get use to it - perhaps a few hours.
> However it's very different to how it feels in the sim so the sim
> probably is a little detrimental to getting a feel for it. In fact I'd
> still like to get FS2004 feeling more real in the way the aircraft
> handles. I can't see MS doing that with FSX unfortunately.
>
> Totally agree with you about other traffic. I was also suprised how
> crowded it was up there. I guess we shouldn't be too shocked given the
> default AI traffic in FS2004 though.
>

When I was learning to fly IRL (at the tender age of 17), I was also
learning to drive a car. Made for some hilarious moments on the taxiway when
I turned the yoke to try and turn the A/C and couldn't for the life of me
understand why it didn't respond! Fortunately I never tried to steer a car
using the pedals....

Tim
 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
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Barney Rubble

External


Since: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 25



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:51 am
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

If you do go up again, check to make sure the motion sickness meds are
approved. Most cause some drowsyness, which is why all the ones I can think
of are not approved for PIC. Also it is a good idea to keep you feet on the
rudder pedals with a firm, but light pressure, even in level flight as this
will lessen the tail swinging in the turb. Make sure you feet are off the
brakes when you flare. I can tell you that landing with even light brake
pressure will get your attention real fast!

- Barney
"Sammy" <syousef DeleteThis @bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:1144650431.812600.287140@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Yesterday I had the privelege and good fortune of experiencing a real
> life trial instructional flight. This was an early birthday present
> from my fiancee and her parents, and I'm not thinking of doing my PPL.
>
> My instructor was a lovely older lady that had been flying since the
> 1950s. We took off from Hoxton Park in Sydney's west (YHOX), flew NW
> then W almost to Warragamba Dam, turned S, and returned East to YHOX,
> entered the circuit and landed. I got to do maybe a total of half a
> minute of taxing (and did have trouble staying on the line), and flew
> for about half the flight once my instructor had gotten us to altitude
> (2000ft), set the throttle and trimmed. I probably flew half the total
> flight and I did have a little trouble getting us down to 1400ft
> because I kept drifting up.
>
> It was gorgeous up there but for me at least it was very bumpy. I came
> down with beads of sweat rolling down my forehead and it wasn't because
> I was hot or scared. I got very motion sick (but fortunately not to the
> point of throwing up or allowing myself to hand control back of the
> aircraft, though I was glad it was coming to an end when we were
> landing).
>
> Naturally before going up and to make the most of my experience I had
> practiced on FS2004. I my practice with Vista Australis and the clear
> weather theme, and started from runway 34 which is the preferred
> runway. I'd looked up the VFR guide for the Sydney basin, made sure I
> was familiar with the 172 (not that I wasn't to start with) and made
> sure the flight school was reputable. I also sim quite a bit so I know
> what the instruments are and how they work (without which the entire
> experience would have been no more than a joy flight)
>
> On the day we had clear skies but a variable moderate wind, which meant
> runway 16 was in use instead.
>
> There many differences between the real thing and the simulator but
> here are the ones that counted:
>
> 1) Even with turbulence to severe and variable winds, I'm not having to
> spend time in flight sim making sure the plane continues to fly in a
> straight line. There was no way on earth that the real Cessna 172 would
> have flown in a straight line. My instructor certainly didn't seem to
> think this was unusual. I really have nothing to gauge this by other
> than hearing pilots say a properly trimmed plane will want to go back
> to being wings level. Did I mention motion sickness? Next time (if
> there is one) I won't forget to take a motion sickness pill.
>
> 2) Noise. I never have my computer up loud enough to make it difficult
> to speak to someone in the same room. The headset cut out quite a bit
> and it was definitely difficult to hear my instructor. Fortunately she
> would point at the instruments quite a bit.
>
> 3) Cramped conditions. I'm not a small guy (average height but soft
> drink belly). It was awkward keeping my feet off the rudder pedals. and
> not having my legs hit the yoke.
>
> 4) Controls. I use a joystick and racing wheel pedals. Joystick to yoke
> actually wasn't too different, but the rudder pedals with differential
> brakes etc certainly were. All the controls were "heavier" than the
> sim, but particularly the pedals. I'd like to get a better look at a
> set of real Cessna pedals some time and actually have a fiddle to get a
> feel for their "sensitivity" to use the flight sim term. I'd need a lot
> more practice to learn to taxi.
>
> 5) Scenery - Vista Australis is not very like the real thing for this
> suburban airport. The strip is right. The houses and roads are all
> wrong (Western Sydney is a lot more populated with houses and a lot
> less bush like, and there's a new motorway near this airport, which
> incidentally is scheduled to close in 2008 unfortunately).
>
> Okay so given that I've already said I don't want to persue a PPL but
> do want to make my simming more realistic, here's my question:
>
> To get more realistic, 2 and 3 are really easy to fix if I really want
> to - turn up the computer volume, put stuff around me to make it more
> cramped (not that I'm likely to want to do either of these). 4 is also
> easy if I throw money at it (CH pro pedals and yoke, though I don't
> fancy the AUD530 price tag). 5 I can live with (or I can pick areas
> where there is better scenery to fly in YSSY is much better for
> example).
>
> The problem for me is 1 - flight dynamics in turbulence. I don't want
> the actual motion since I find nothing fun about the motion sickness so
> I don't have any want of a motion platform, but how do I make FS2004
> fly more like the real thing with regards to turbulence?
>
> For example would it be worth buying Weather Maker Professional or some
> other weather product? (Anyone use WMP here?)
>
> Needless to say I had an absolute blast despite the motion sickness and
> would recommend a trial flight to any simmer with the means. It cost me
> less than the average flight sim addon. Naturually do pick someone
> experienced and safe though.
>
 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
Back to top
Login to vote
Simon Robbins

External


Since: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 512



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Tim wrote:
> When I was learning to fly IRL (at the tender age of 17), I was also
> learning to drive a car. Made for some hilarious moments on the taxiway when
> I turned the yoke to try and turn the A/C and couldn't for the life of me
> understand why it didn't respond! Fortunately I never tried to steer a car
> using the pedals....

Since starting a helicopter PPL I have developed a disturbing tendency
to drive with one hand on the hand brake...

Si
 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
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Steve

External


Since: May 10, 2005
Posts: 100



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Canuck" <anonymous RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zOn_f.11718$nf7.1904@pd7tw1no...
> Interesting read and somewhat similar to my experience.
> 1. elderly lady instructor
> 2. Some taxiing and surprised as to how difficult it was
> 3. 50% flight one at altitude
> 4. Constant corrections to direction
> I was surprised that you say the contols were heavy though, I found them
> unbelievably light. I was only in a Cessna 152 and it came as a shock
that
> there was not the same sense of feedback you get when turning as that
which
> you get in a car on a road.
> The other thing which stunned me was the not being able to see the ground
> very well due to pollution. It was a sunny day with littel to no cloud.
I
> flew out of Stapleford, London and headed east towards Southend which
wasn't
> too bad but when we returned West towards London, the filth in the air was
> so apparant. In fact we could not even see Stapleford until we were
almost
> on top of it.

You might have been mistaking a strong inversion layer for pollution - they
look rather similar and are a popular ploy used by tree-huggers when they're
looking for ammunition to support their particular anti-something of the
week. Of course, inversions do indeed trap pollutants below the inversion
layer as the air is unable to mix freely and disperse them, but you can also
find what looks like a heavily polluted sky out in the middle of an ocean
when conditions are right. The ploy (misrepresentation, if you like) works
every time on the great unwashed masses and journalists though.
 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
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Roberts Family

External


Since: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

It mentions NOT whether or not you are now a member of the mile-high club.
Well?????????????
"Barney Rubble" <barney.rubble.TakeThisOut@boulder.com> wrote in message
news:443a8da7$0$4154$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> If you do go up again, check to make sure the motion sickness meds are
> approved. Most cause some drowsyness, which is why all the ones I can
> think of are not approved for PIC. Also it is a good idea to keep you feet
> on the rudder pedals with a firm, but light pressure, even in level flight
> as this will lessen the tail swinging in the turb. Make sure you feet are
> off the brakes when you flare. I can tell you that landing with even light
> brake pressure will get your attention real fast!
>
> - Barney
> "Sammy" <syousef.TakeThisOut@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:1144650431.812600.287140@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Yesterday I had the privelege and good fortune of experiencing a real
>> life trial instructional flight. This was an early birthday present
>> from my fiancee and her parents, and I'm not thinking of doing my PPL.
>>
>> My instructor was a lovely older lady that had been flying since the
>> 1950s. We took off from Hoxton Park in Sydney's west (YHOX), flew NW
>> then W almost to Warragamba Dam, turned S, and returned East to YHOX,
>> entered the circuit and landed. I got to do maybe a total of half a
>> minute of taxing (and did have trouble staying on the line), and flew
>> for about half the flight once my instructor had gotten us to altitude
>> (2000ft), set the throttle and trimmed. I probably flew half the total
>> flight and I did have a little trouble getting us down to 1400ft
>> because I kept drifting up.
>>
>> It was gorgeous up there but for me at least it was very bumpy. I came
>> down with beads of sweat rolling down my forehead and it wasn't because
>> I was hot or scared. I got very motion sick (but fortunately not to the
>> point of throwing up or allowing myself to hand control back of the
>> aircraft, though I was glad it was coming to an end when we were
>> landing).
>>
>> Naturally before going up and to make the most of my experience I had
>> practiced on FS2004. I my practice with Vista Australis and the clear
>> weather theme, and started from runway 34 which is the preferred
>> runway. I'd looked up the VFR guide for the Sydney basin, made sure I
>> was familiar with the 172 (not that I wasn't to start with) and made
>> sure the flight school was reputable. I also sim quite a bit so I know
>> what the instruments are and how they work (without which the entire
>> experience would have been no more than a joy flight)
>>
>> On the day we had clear skies but a variable moderate wind, which meant
>> runway 16 was in use instead.
>>
>> There many differences between the real thing and the simulator but
>> here are the ones that counted:
>>
>> 1) Even with turbulence to severe and variable winds, I'm not having to
>> spend time in flight sim making sure the plane continues to fly in a
>> straight line. There was no way on earth that the real Cessna 172 would
>> have flown in a straight line. My instructor certainly didn't seem to
>> think this was unusual. I really have nothing to gauge this by other
>> than hearing pilots say a properly trimmed plane will want to go back
>> to being wings level. Did I mention motion sickness? Next time (if
>> there is one) I won't forget to take a motion sickness pill.
>>
>> 2) Noise. I never have my computer up loud enough to make it difficult
>> to speak to someone in the same room. The headset cut out quite a bit
>> and it was definitely difficult to hear my instructor. Fortunately she
>> would point at the instruments quite a bit.
>>
>> 3) Cramped conditions. I'm not a small guy (average height but soft
>> drink belly). It was awkward keeping my feet off the rudder pedals. and
>> not having my legs hit the yoke.
>>
>> 4) Controls. I use a joystick and racing wheel pedals. Joystick to yoke
>> actually wasn't too different, but the rudder pedals with differential
>> brakes etc certainly were. All the controls were "heavier" than the
>> sim, but particularly the pedals. I'd like to get a better look at a
>> set of real Cessna pedals some time and actually have a fiddle to get a
>> feel for their "sensitivity" to use the flight sim term. I'd need a lot
>> more practice to learn to taxi.
>>
>> 5) Scenery - Vista Australis is not very like the real thing for this
>> suburban airport. The strip is right. The houses and roads are all
>> wrong (Western Sydney is a lot more populated with houses and a lot
>> less bush like, and there's a new motorway near this airport, which
>> incidentally is scheduled to close in 2008 unfortunately).
>>
>> Okay so given that I've already said I don't want to persue a PPL but
>> do want to make my simming more realistic, here's my question:
>>
>> To get more realistic, 2 and 3 are really easy to fix if I really want
>> to - turn up the computer volume, put stuff around me to make it more
>> cramped (not that I'm likely to want to do either of these). 4 is also
>> easy if I throw money at it (CH pro pedals and yoke, though I don't
>> fancy the AUD530 price tag). 5 I can live with (or I can pick areas
>> where there is better scenery to fly in YSSY is much better for
>> example).
>>
>> The problem for me is 1 - flight dynamics in turbulence. I don't want
>> the actual motion since I find nothing fun about the motion sickness so
>> I don't have any want of a motion platform, but how do I make FS2004
>> fly more like the real thing with regards to turbulence?
>>
>> For example would it be worth buying Weather Maker Professional or some
>> other weather product? (Anyone use WMP here?)
>>
>> Needless to say I had an absolute blast despite the motion sickness and
>> would recommend a trial flight to any simmer with the means. It cost me
>> less than the average flight sim addon. Naturually do pick someone
>> experienced and safe though.
>>
>
>
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Jay Beckman

External


Since: Jul 28, 2005
Posts: 349



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:05 pm
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Sonicmix" <Sonicmix.DeleteThis@forums.simradar.com> wrote in message
news:1144862561.2715@forums.simradar.com...
<SNIP>

> In the sim I'm used to getting set up (Base Leg) well beyond the airport
> 5-10 miles, but I doubt there were two miles distance to the runway when
> we turned in for finals.

If you were in a light single (172, etc...) you probably were no more than
1/2 mile from the threshold when turning base to final.

A proper pattern (in a light single) is one where you can make the runway
from any point if the fan stops.

Jay B
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Sammy

External


Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 708



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

1. 2000ft is not a mile.
2. I was not about to do any such thing with the elderly married lady,
nor was she with me.
3. My fiancee was waiting back on the ground. I'd hate to get my wings
and lose another part of my anatomy Smile
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Sammy

External


Since: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 708



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Vaughn,

You're welcome regarding the posts. Sim pedals are great, and I've also
just ordered a yoke and rudder pedals. In the meantime I've been using
much cheaper steering wheel pedals. I can keep the C172 down the line
in the sim, but I still found the real world very different.

I definitely think the one thing the sim does give you an edge in is
knowledge of the concepts of flight. Most pilots would be learning it
all in one big hit, but a lot of the theory would already be known to a
simmer.It doesn't do nearly as much to help you get a feel for the
aircraft though, which is a pity because I think the sim could be a lot
closer. Perhaps in a few versions...
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Sinbad

External


Since: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 38



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Funny, I had nearly the same experience too: my first and, so far,
only flight was also a birthday present (from my son). Flew in a
Cessna 152 from Rochester to Southend and back. I found the plane not
only cramped but also difficult to get into (I'm not particularily
thin either). The instructor tried politely to soothe my feelings by
stating that "there is no graceful way to get into this plane". That
said it all. Instruments and checklist all looked very familiar,
pedals - especially the toebrakes - a bit less, as I fly with a
joystick, but easy to get used to. I was spared most of the taxiing
but was allowed to take off on my own. No big problem there as the
plane rotates gently by itself at 60 knts. Got to 2000 ft and stayed
there: not too difficult to maintain altitude. Weather was nice (for
november): practically no turbulence and very little polution, clear
view on the Thames estuary and the Southend pier. In flight, the
biggest difference with flightsim, as remarked by Canuck and as was
also pointed out by my instructor, was that I had to pay much less
attention to my instruments and much more to the environement, as the
skies were indeed very crowded! The instructor gave me a lot of visual
tricks by which to judge the plane's attitude without having to look
down at the pannel. Had a spot of trouble finding the Southend landing
strip as the "scenery" is also much more crowded than in FS but the
instructor helpfully pointed it out to me and let me do the approach
(with oral directions from him, of course) and most of the landing,
taking over the controls when we were approx. at 500 ft. During the
descent, he managed the throttle and left the "steering" to me.
Actually, I found that alignment on the runway and landing in RL was
much easier than in FS. The flight model seemed very much like the one
of the Flight1 152 but, of course, we didn't "push the envelope". One
difference I noticed, however, is that it's much easier to climb
faster and higher in the FS 152 than in the RL one. The RL plane also
"floats" more in the air, even with little turbulence, than the FS
one. All in all, a most pleasant experience!

Sinbad

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:28:31 GMT, "Canuck" <anonymous.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Interesting read and somewhat similar to my experience.
>1. elderly lady instructor
>2. Some taxiing and surprised as to how difficult it was
>3. 50% flight one at altitude
>4. Constant corrections to direction
>I was surprised that you say the contols were heavy though, I found them
>unbelievably light. I was only in a Cessna 152 and it came as a shock that
>there was not the same sense of feedback you get when turning as that which
>you get in a car on a road.
>The other thing which stunned me was the not being able to see the ground
>very well due to pollution. It was a sunny day with littel to no cloud. I
>flew out of Stapleford, London and headed east towards Southend which wasn't
>too bad but when we returned West towards London, the filth in the air was
>so apparant. In fact we could not even see Stapleford until we were almost
>on top of it.
>The other thing which sticks in my mind was the need for vigilence, there
>are so many other a/c up there at the same time I felt I needed eyes in the
>back of my head. On two occasions on the return leg light twins buzzed us
>and they seemed to appear out of nowhere.
>
>
>"Sammy" <syousef.TakeThisOut@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
>news:1144650431.812600.287140@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Yesterday I had the privelege and good fortune of experiencing a real
>> life trial instructional flight. This was an early birthday present
>> from my fiancee and her parents, and I'm not thinking of doing my PPL.
>>
>> My instructor was a lovely older lady that had been flying since the
>> 1950s. We took off from Hoxton Park in Sydney's west (YHOX), flew NW
>> then W almost to Warragamba Dam, turned S, and returned East to YHOX,
>> entered the circuit and landed. I got to do maybe a total of half a
>> minute of taxing (and did have trouble staying on the line), and flew
>> for about half the flight once my instructor had gotten us to altitude
>> (2000ft), set the throttle and trimmed. I probably flew half the total
>> flight and I did have a little trouble getting us down to 1400ft
>> because I kept drifting up.
>>
>> It was gorgeous up there but for me at least it was very bumpy. I came
>> down with beads of sweat rolling down my forehead and it wasn't because
>> I was hot or scared. I got very motion sick (but fortunately not to the
>> point of throwing up or allowing myself to hand control back of the
>> aircraft, though I was glad it was coming to an end when we were
>> landing).
>>
>> Naturally before going up and to make the most of my experience I had
>> practiced on FS2004. I my practice with Vista Australis and the clear
>> weather theme, and started from runway 34 which is the preferred
>> runway. I'd looked up the VFR guide for the Sydney basin, made sure I
>> was familiar with the 172 (not that I wasn't to start with) and made
>> sure the flight school was reputable. I also sim quite a bit so I know
>> what the instruments are and how they work (without which the entire
>> experience would have been no more than a joy flight)
>>
>> On the day we had clear skies but a variable moderate wind, which meant
>> runway 16 was in use instead.
>>
>> There many differences between the real thing and the simulator but
>> here are the ones that counted:
>>
>> 1) Even with turbulence to severe and variable winds, I'm not having to
>> spend time in flight sim making sure the plane continues to fly in a
>> straight line. There was no way on earth that the real Cessna 172 would
>> have flown in a straight line. My instructor certainly didn't seem to
>> think this was unusual. I really have nothing to gauge this by other
>> than hearing pilots say a properly trimmed plane will want to go back
>> to being wings level. Did I mention motion sickness? Next time (if
>> there is one) I won't forget to take a motion sickness pill.
>>
>> 2) Noise. I never have my computer up loud enough to make it difficult
>> to speak to someone in the same room. The headset cut out quite a bit
>> and it was definitely difficult to hear my instructor. Fortunately she
>> would point at the instruments quite a bit.
>>
>> 3) Cramped conditions. I'm not a small guy (average height but soft
>> drink belly). It was awkward keeping my feet off the rudder pedals. and
>> not having my legs hit the yoke.
>>
>> 4) Controls. I use a joystick and racing wheel pedals. Joystick to yoke
>> actually wasn't too different, but the rudder pedals with differential
>> brakes etc certainly were. All the controls were "heavier" than the
>> sim, but particularly the pedals. I'd like to get a better look at a
>> set of real Cessna pedals some time and actually have a fiddle to get a
>> feel for their "sensitivity" to use the flight sim term. I'd need a lot
>> more practice to learn to taxi.
>>
>> 5) Scenery - Vista Australis is not very like the real thing for this
>> suburban airport. The strip is right. The houses and roads are all
>> wrong (Western Sydney is a lot more populated with houses and a lot
>> less bush like, and there's a new motorway near this airport, which
>> incidentally is scheduled to close in 2008 unfortunately).
>>
>> Okay so given that I've already said I don't want to persue a PPL but
>> do want to make my simming more realistic, here's my question:
>>
>> To get more realistic, 2 and 3 are really easy to fix if I really want
>> to - turn up the computer volume, put stuff around me to make it more
>> cramped (not that I'm likely to want to do either of these). 4 is also
>> easy if I throw money at it (CH pro pedals and yoke, though I don't
>> fancy the AUD530 price tag). 5 I can live with (or I can pick areas
>> where there is better scenery to fly in YSSY is much better for
>> example).
>>
>> The problem for me is 1 - flight dynamics in turbulence. I don't want
>> the actual motion since I find nothing fun about the motion sickness so
>> I don't have any want of a motion platform, but how do I make FS2004
>> fly more like the real thing with regards to turbulence?
>>
>> For example would it be worth buying Weather Maker Professional or some
>> other weather product? (Anyone use WMP here?)
>>
>> Needless to say I had an absolute blast despite the motion sickness and
>> would recommend a trial flight to any simmer with the means. It cost me
>> less than the average flight sim addon. Naturually do pick someone
>> experienced and safe though.
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real 
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Dallas

External


Since: Feb 15, 2005
Posts: 2300



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:55 am
Post subject: Re: First real-life flight and making FS2004 more real [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Sammy"
> 1) Even with turbulence to severe and variable winds, I'm not having to
> spend time in flight sim making sure the plane continues to fly in a
> straight line. but how do I make FS2004 fly more like the real thing
> with regards to turbulence?

Your observations are right on. As far as turbulance, you can't make the
Flightsim act like the real thing. A really gusty day in real life will
slam you sideways then cockeyed and generally give you a work out the whole
time. Landing under those conditions can be very exciting.

I'm hoping FSX will model those conditions more accurately.

Dallas
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