raiding: heal over time

crazyfalnger a écrit :

> Heal over time's are in no way mana-effecient...if you are in an end
> game raid and need to conserve your mana its best to use the longer
> heals...your tank is going to be taking enough damage anyways, a HoT
> isn't going to be worth much, other then topping someone off after
> combat.

I haven't been in need of conserving my mana in high end raids since
patch 1.10 to be honest...

I just wondered, I have my local optimum now, using heal rank 1/2 as
mainstay heal spell, how much I could downrank renew as well, and it
seems to be a trick question because of course, it can't heal back to
full on its own (currently my top rank renew heals for like 1800 health
though), but it sure as hell does stop the bleeding...

so, to dps classes, when you take damage from AOE (cleave, etc), how
much is it? 1200? 500? 3000?

and to healers, when you heal random people in raid (rogues, etc), do
you cast a spell of a power depending on the missing life, or do you
always use the same little magic button?
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

Moif Murphy a écrit :

> I use Clickheal, it calculates the amount of missing HP's and downgrades
> the heal spell accordingly. Great bit of kit.

okay,

what kind of speed are you? Whack-a-Mole-Champ, or Medic under enemy
fire?
I mean, does your bro have to wait for 2.5s, 5s, or 10 seconds before
having his life back?
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

Babe Bridou wrote:
> crazyfalnger a écrit :
>
>> Heal over time's are in no way mana-effecient...if you are in an end
>> game raid and need to conserve your mana its best to use the longer
>> heals...your tank is going to be taking enough damage anyways, a HoT
>> isn't going to be worth much, other then topping someone off after
>> combat.
>
> I haven't been in need of conserving my mana in high end raids since
> patch 1.10 to be honest...
>
> I just wondered, I have my local optimum now, using heal rank 1/2 as
> mainstay heal spell, how much I could downrank renew as well, and it
> seems to be a trick question because of course, it can't heal back to
> full on its own (currently my top rank renew heals for like 1800 health
> though), but it sure as hell does stop the bleeding...
>
> so, to dps classes, when you take damage from AOE (cleave, etc), how
> much is it? 1200? 500? 3000?
>
> and to healers, when you heal random people in raid (rogues, etc), do
> you cast a spell of a power depending on the missing life, or do you
> always use the same little magic button?
>

I use Clickheal, it calculates the amount of missing HP's and downgrades
the heal spell accordingly. Great bit of kit.

--
Broke [X Shadow Priest] - [Guild Leader of Titan] <EU-Kilrogg>
Skint [60 Holy Disc Priest - [Inactive] <EU-Wildhammer>
Moif [60 BM Hunter] - [Inactive] <EU-Wildhammer>
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155718861.482136.57990@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Question: What could be seen as the optimum heal over time tick in a
> raid?
>
> Answer #1: on the tanks, I'd say as high as possible
> Answer #2: what about the rest of the raid?
>
> I'm trying to figure out some downranking on my Renew spell, and I was
> wondering if I should go all the way down and let +heal gear do the
> job, or if I should hunt some kind of an optimum depending on the
> behaviour of the other healers in the raid.
>
> So - what could be that optimum?
>

The priests in my guild have decided not to downrank our renews. If
someone takes a single hit and is not going to take further damage they can
bandage themselves and we don't need to worry about them. In cases where
there is AOE damage, cleaves, dots, or random damage to whoever is standing
around, max-rank renew is our best choice.
With good gear 300/tick is not hard to achieve and lets you get right
back to healing the tank (or whatever your target is) with little downtime.
Also, in fights like Vael or Firemaw people are taking constant damage and
the higher your dot is the better.
I would use rank 2 Heal for general healing if you have +300 or better
healing gear, and use that for most situations. Flash heal for when people
are in serious trouble (and fights like Broodlord), and renew on anybody who
needs some help but is not in danger or taking a beating at that moment.
Also throw max rank renews on your warlocks whenever they are hurt or out of
mana, they love it. I always keep a renew on the main tank, even if we have
a bunch of people on him. Sometimes that renew tick at the right moment can
make the difference between life and death.
Rank 2 heal, max rank renew, and flash heal really depends on your
style, control, and how much +healing gear you have. Remember that, when
calculating, your HP : Mana ratio determines how efficient you are, and
renew gets the full benefit of your +healing gear. You can end up getting a
very good HP : Mana ratio on renew with good gear, even though it is an
instant.
I prefer the "fire and forget" approach to renews than throwing them
*some* healing and hoping that it is enough, or that they don't get hit a
second time.
-Zabandazar (Frostwolf server)
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> writes:
>so, to dps classes, when you take damage from AOE (cleave, etc), how
>much is it? 1200? 500? 3000?

Keep going - last night we had a minor tank miscue on flamegor for the
first time (normally he spends the whole fight harmlessly pointing at the
wall while we pound him to bits), and I took a shadow flame in the face,
while NOT wearing my Onyxia scale cloak (Doh! and I had just taught a
bunch of guildies how to make a antishadow flame overlay in itemrack!).
Initial damage wasn't too bad, about 800. Then the DoT ticked - 5 digits!
It's a nice animation too - kind of a fizzy fountain of blood over your
head. And then hello floor.

In NORMAL situations, it varies on the mob - those redcap dragons in
UBRS and onward have a flame AOE that will crisp you for at least 1200 a
shot if you're not in FR gear. Firemaw has a rather nasty stacking fire
vulnerability AOE that if you let go too far will easily one or two shot
you. I don't think there's a single answer on this one. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

Jonathan a écrit :

> The priests in my guild have decided not to downrank our renews. If
> someone takes a single hit and is not going to take further damage they can
> bandage themselves and we don't need to worry about them. In cases where
> there is AOE damage, cleaves, dots, or random damage to whoever is standing
> around, max-rank renew is our best choice.
> With good gear 300/tick is not hard to achieve and lets you get right
> back to healing the tank (or whatever your target is) with little downtime.
> Also, in fights like Vael or Firemaw people are taking constant damage and
> the higher your dot is the better.

Okay, good advice, thanks!

I'm at +400 heal in stamina/resistance gear, so yeah I'll keep using
max rank - but in AQ20 I'm walking around with roughly +700 heal,
gimping my resists a bit. Now do you think at +700 heal you would
change your approach for renews?

I'm at about 800 non-crit heal with heal rank 1, and my max rank renew
ticks for about 400 for me now - would you keep max rank or downgrade a
bit, for AQ20?

Why I ask all this is because I'd like our hybrids to switch to dps
gear to be able to clear trash faster with so few people, so I'd like
to be able to fill as much raid healing as I can... and to be honest
the temptation to downgrade to renew rank 3 is very strong (80 mana for
about 900 heal, instead of about 350 mana for about 1800 heal with my
rank 10). Question is, would you give it a try? Maybe just spam that
renew and fill the holes with a few flash heal rank 1 (roughly 400 heal
over 1.5s for a bit more than 100 mana) and rank 1 prayer of healing?

Oh by the way: as far as 40men raids go, the guild is stuck in Molten
Core, due to holidays and lots of people leaving. We have troubles
getting more than 25 people online, we are rather selective in our
recruiting process, and we raid maybe 3 nights per week for a maximum
of 3 hours, so I guess we probably won't have any attempt on Razorgore
or Skeram any time soon.
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155798879.539821.98740@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

"I'm at +400 heal in stamina/resistance gear, so yeah I'll keep using
max rank - but in AQ20 I'm walking around with roughly +700 heal,
gimping my resists a bit. Now do you think at +700 heal you would
change your approach for renews?

I'm at about 800 non-crit heal with heal rank 1, and my max rank renew
ticks for about 400 for me now - would you keep max rank or downgrade a
bit, for AQ20?"

I think you should find what you do and what fits your style, and focus
on that. If downranked super-efficient heals are what you are best at then
ranking down could be the way to go. Personally I am only between +400 and
+500 healing, but my thing is mana regen so I can afford to throw around
more expensive spells, because my spirit is quite high.
With HOT's though your investment of mana is not just for healing now
but healing over the next 15 seconds; how often will the people you are
healing take additional damage in the next 10 to 15 seconds after your Renew
them? If it's a one-shot deal and that is the only damage then a ranked
down Renew might be best. However if you find that they will be taking
another hit sometime before your renew runs out, then having higher ticks
can be more beneficial. It also depends on their max health; if your mages
are running around with 3,000 HP then it's not worth throwing a max rank
renew on them, but if everyone has 6,000 HP then those 1,800 point renews
might be more effective, relative to the damage they are taking and their
max HP.
You have to look at your own style, gear, and group to find the right
answer. I've pretty much stopped playing my priest except for some BWL runs
(we haven't downed Nef yet). After a point it just feels like, even with
super nice healing gear, I'm still running into a dead end as a priest.
-Zabandazar (Frostwolf Server)
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

Moif Murphy a écrit :

> Babe Bridou wrote:
> > Moif Murphy a écrit :
> >
> >> I use Clickheal, it calculates the amount of missing HP's and downgrades
> >> the heal spell accordingly. Great bit of kit.
> >
> > okay,
> >
> > what kind of speed are you? Whack-a-Mole-Champ, or Medic under enemy
> > fire?
> > I mean, does your bro have to wait for 2.5s, 5s, or 10 seconds before
> > having his life back?
> >
>
> I am a 6 million dollar bionic healing machine with Clickheal. All I
> have to do is click on the Emergency Monitor bars and Clickheal does the
> rest. It integrates itself with CTRaid you see

I hate the emergency monitor, it doesn't help me heal, it just takes
useless space on my screen.

I wouldn't trust any add-on that would select for me a rank of healing,
for the simple fact that in most cases I have a healing strategy in
mind when I raid, and this strategy goes beyond the mere replenishing
of whoever needs it. I'm a boosted cyberpunk with enhanced
neurotransmitters that give me the ability to play chess while driving
a car at 150mph.

Seriously. I swear it's true!

Nah I'm just talking about mana regeneration, mana conservation and
mana usage of me and of my raid. I'll never rely on an add-on to select
the correct spell because there are so much variety and so much
difference in healing speed (both hps and timetoconnect), that I prefer
very much to be watching the action and select the people by clicking
on them instead of keeping my mouse on that kind of add-on. Not that it
performs bad, it's just that it's not fun to me, and on top of that it
cannot beat strategic healing.

That said and back to the topic, with that kind of healers in raid I
can expect one tick of healing on the first dude, two on the second and
three ticks of healing on the third ranked in your emergency monitor.

So for a cost of 3 renews, I get 6 ticks in, making Renew rank 4 still
more mana efficient than a flash heal.

> By the time the Healers in our Group / Raid have selected which target
> to heal and the spell to do the job I've already healed their target and
> am ready to heal the next. All this without over healing.

no over heal (except for the part when you do, ie: my spell connects
before yours, because I'm proactive and cast spell before the target
takes damage, and you're reactive and cast spell right after the target
takes damage), but no mana efficience either.

one priest casting a GH4 is much less mana efficient than three priests
casting heal rank 2, by far. And that's just an example.

oneclickpriestbutton looks so dull to me that I wouldn't even bother
about it.

"So for a cost of 3 renews, I get 6 ticks in, making Renew rank 4 still
more mana efficient than a flash heal."
will be my conclusion.

I need to cast at least 4 renews rank 4 in quick succession on likely
targets to get my money back on them. Below that Flash heal rank 1 does
a better job. That's what I wanted to know.
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

Christian Stauffer a écrit :

> "Babe Bridou" <babebridou RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh by the way: as far as 40men raids go, the guild is stuck in Molten
> > Core, due to holidays and lots of people leaving. We have troubles
> > getting more than 25 people online, we are rather selective in our
> > recruiting process, and we raid maybe 3 nights per week for a maximum
> > of 3 hours
>
> Are you in GG now? Did Fatal33ty die?

Eh, follow the story, Chris!

I've left Fatality in the beginning of march, after 3 months of
hardcore raiding there, I couldn't take it anymore, so I quit the game.

I then went back to wow in may, first as a paladin of the Pirates who
say yarr (hint hint: we two-manned Van Cleef together, I was level 12
or so, you were 28 or 30 I don't remember), and then back in Sunstrider
Horde, where I applied to the Grim Guzzlers.

During my absence, Fatality disbanded due to AQ40 drama, and reformed
with pretty much the same people, as <Nazgrels Henchmen> (the original
name of the guild).

But still I found the pace was too high so I'm now lending my healing
services and forum spamming to the Grim Guzzlers (whose board is now
almost entirely from TLXS, btw).

I'm unhappy with our raid times (3 hours raiding isn't long enough to
allow progress), but apart from that I'm happy with the people there,
extremely friendly.

Then a massive exodus started with the World Cup in Germany (no use
trying to raid then), continued with various people on holiday, etc..
We had to start a MC raid with 24 at some point and had to give up on
Garr (only one warlock). But we're doing very nice and slick and smooth
and fun in Zul'Gurub and AQ20, which we're still exploring.

And stop saying that druids are healbots, Komdorron (resto druid and
guildmaster) is levelling a chicken alt to replace him in raids, Seena
and Gimlix are both pure feral and make perfect off-tanks/main
tanks/melee dps. Sadly our only oomkin decided to respec to
restoration... But Witherhorn had a good call yesterday night, the
druid managed to grab a talisman of ephemereal power
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

Babe Bridou wrote:
> Moif Murphy a écrit :
>
>> I use Clickheal, it calculates the amount of missing HP's and downgrades
>> the heal spell accordingly. Great bit of kit.
>
> okay,
>
> what kind of speed are you? Whack-a-Mole-Champ, or Medic under enemy
> fire?
> I mean, does your bro have to wait for 2.5s, 5s, or 10 seconds before
> having his life back?
>

I am a 6 million dollar bionic healing machine with Clickheal. All I
have to do is click on the Emergency Monitor bars and Clickheal does the
rest. It integrates itself with CTRaid you see

By the time the Healers in our Group / Raid have selected which target
to heal and the spell to do the job I've already healed their target and
am ready to heal the next. All this without over healing.

--
Broke [X Shadow Priest] - [Guild Leader of Titan] <EU-Kilrogg>
Skint [60 Holy Disc Priest - [Inactive] <EU-Wildhammer>
Moif [60 BM Hunter] - [Inactive] <EU-Wildhammer>
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

Babe Bridou wrote:
> Moif Murphy a écrit :
>
>> I use Clickheal, it calculates the amount of missing HP's and downgrades
>> the heal spell accordingly. Great bit of kit.
>
> okay,
>
> what kind of speed are you? Whack-a-Mole-Champ, or Medic under enemy
> fire?
> I mean, does your bro have to wait for 2.5s, 5s, or 10 seconds before
> having his life back?
>

....and it's a very small amount of time before they're up to full
health, at the most it's the time it takes to throw our a Greater Heal.

This addon gives me the extra room to think about the situation and who
will be needing my attention the most. It's great.

--
Broke [X Shadow Priest] - [Guild Leader of Titan] <EU-Kilrogg>
Skint [60 Holy Disc Priest - [Inactive] <EU-Wildhammer>
Moif [60 BM Hunter] - [Inactive] <EU-Wildhammer>
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

> Oh by the way: as far as 40men raids go, the guild is stuck in Molten
> Core, due to holidays and lots of people leaving. We have troubles
> getting more than 25 people online, we are rather selective in our
> recruiting process, and we raid maybe 3 nights per week for a maximum
> of 3 hours

Are you in GG now? Did Fatal33ty die?

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Maethor - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time 

"Babe Bridou" <babebridou DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

> Eh, follow the story, Chris!

Bah, story.

> I've left Fatality in the beginning of march, after 3 months of
> hardcore raiding there, I couldn't take it anymore, so I quit the game.

Oops, didn't know that *blushes*.

> I then went back to wow in may, first as a paladin of the Pirates who
> say yarr (hint hint: we two-manned Van Cleef together, I was level 12
> or so, you were 28 or 30 I don't remember), and then back in Sunstrider
> Horde, where I applied to the Grim Guzzlers.

Ye I remember the VC thing But I didn't know that you suspended
WoW before starting an alt on SSL.

> During my absence, Fatality disbanded due to AQ40 drama, and reformed
> with pretty much the same people, as <Nazgrels Henchmen> (the original
> name of the guild).

Ah I see.

> But still I found the pace was too high so I'm now lending my healing
> services and forum spamming to the Grim Guzzlers (whose board is now
> almost entirely from TLXS, btw).

Good, GG is a great guild. (I guess their forum is unusable now,
though

> I'm unhappy with our raid times (3 hours raiding isn't long enough to
> allow progress), but apart from that I'm happy with the people there,
> extremely friendly.

Yep.

> Then a massive exodus started with the World Cup in Germany (no use
> trying to raid then), continued with various people on holiday, etc..
> We had to start a MC raid with 24 at some point and had to give up on
> Garr (only one warlock).

I talked to Walt/Komdorron at that time and he seemed pretty frustrated
due to that many people leaving.

> And stop saying that druids are healbots, Komdorron (resto druid and
> guildmaster)

Who do you think I am? I perfectly know who Kom is, I /ginvited
him :-p

> is levelling a chicken alt to replace him in raids, Seena
> and Gimlix are both pure feral and make perfect off-tanks/main
> tanks/melee dps.

Good to hear. It's a bit said that my drood can't join them,
but I don't want to give Wildcard half my game time.
(Especially not with fixed dates/times)

> Sadly our only oomkin decided to respec to restoration...

Good decision, because balance is gimped to the bones :-p

> But Witherhorn had a good call yesterday night, the
> druid managed to grab a talisman of ephemereal power

Ow, a talisman of emphe.. efpme... a powerful talisman!

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Maethor - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
 >> Stay informed about: raiding: heal over time