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How program FMC between STAR and rwy

 
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Sjaak

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Since: May 29, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 3:55 am
Post subject: How program FMC between STAR and rwy
Archived from groups: alt>games>microsoft>flight-sim (more info?)

Hello all,

I fly the PMDG 737 using the FMC, fllying from the KLF holding point to EDDB
rwy 07R (this all from EHAM, but that's not important here). The STAR ends
at the KLF holding point and then after a 68 degree left turn, 19.7 nm
straight, 114 degree right turn, the ILS beam of rwy 07R starts. I don't
know how and what to program in between KLF and the runway. There are no
waypoints with a name there which I could enter in the FMC, only "D19.7 KLF"
etc...

Could anyone help me here? How should I program the FMC here?

Many thanks!

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Marcel Kuijper

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Since: Apr 08, 2005
Posts: 175



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:57 pm
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Sjaak" wrote:

> I fly the PMDG 737 using the FMC, fllying from the KLF holding point to
EDDB
> rwy 07R (this all from EHAM, but that's not important here). The STAR ends
> at the KLF holding point and then after a 68 degree left turn, 19.7 nm
> straight, 114 degree right turn, the ILS beam of rwy 07R starts. I don't
> know how and what to program in between KLF and the runway. There are no
> waypoints with a name there which I could enter in the FMC, only "D19.7
KLF"
> etc...
>
> Could anyone help me here? How should I program the FMC here?


It sounds to me like you want to program a "fix".
I've never used them myself. Either I fly the whole STAR and go for an
autoland,
which is tricky to set up and takes lots of practice, or follow ATC
instructions
and fly in manually.

You're following the R314 to KLF at 4000ft, begin descent to 3000ft, turn
right to 068 and follow the glideslope down to 07R.
There's no need for that 114 degree right turn...only if you overfly.
Then you would climb to a safe altitude (between 1500 and 3000ft) and turn
right to 100 and set up a go-around.

The only 114 I see on the chart is 114.4, which is the SDD VOR.

There's no need for extra programming either. You could if you wanted to,
but there's very little time to set it all up because you're almost there.

Press FIX and enter the following into the scratchpad.

KLF314/SDD248

Upselect to point right after KLF on your leg.

Press EXEC


Now you've connected KLF to SDD, but watch your altitude!


Good luck!
Marcel

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Marcel Kuijper

External


Since: Apr 08, 2005
Posts: 175



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Sjaak" wrote:

> I fly the PMDG 737 using the FMC, fllying from the KLF holding point to
EDDB
> rwy 07R (this all from EHAM, but that's not important here). The STAR ends
> at the KLF holding point and then after a 68 degree left turn, 19.7 nm
> straight, 114 degree right turn, the ILS beam of rwy 07R starts. I don't
> know how and what to program in between KLF and the runway. There are no
> waypoints with a name there which I could enter in the FMC, only "D19.7
KLF"
> etc...

It just occured to me that if you can't get from KLF to 07R, then there
must be a gap in the last leg of your route.
Aren't you getting a DISCO on your FMC/CDU?

The simplest step is to get rid of the DISCO and connect 07R to KLF.
After KLF the FMC should see 07R as the last point and begin turning the
aircraft.

It's obviously been a while since I've last flown either of my PMDG birds.
Smile


Marcel
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Mxsmanic

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Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 1872



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:56 am
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Crash Lander writes:

> Many STARs don't go all the way to the ground.

No STAR goes all the way to the ground. The end of the STAR is the start of
the runway approach. In the FMC you select an approach to go with your STAR.

The approach, in turn, doesn't lead to an automated landing unless it is Cat
III autoland. If it's autoland, you set up the autoland on your approach. If
it's not autoland, you turn off the autopilot at the appropriate point during
the approach and hand-fly the aircraft to a landing.
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Crash Lander

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Since: Oct 10, 2005
Posts: 1366



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:31 am
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Many STARs don't go all the way to the ground. Some end some distance from
the airfield, with ATC vectoring you in t\for the final part.
Crash Lander
--
http://straightandlevel1973.spaces.live.com/
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong!
"Sjaak" <sjaak RemoveThis @gfbfgbv.com> wrote in message
news:465bcc3a$0$327$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> Hello all,
>
> I fly the PMDG 737 using the FMC, fllying from the KLF holding point to
> EDDB rwy 07R (this all from EHAM, but that's not important here). The STAR
> ends at the KLF holding point and then after a 68 degree left turn, 19.7
> nm straight, 114 degree right turn, the ILS beam of rwy 07R starts. I
> don't know how and what to program in between KLF and the runway. There
> are no waypoints with a name there which I could enter in the FMC, only
> "D19.7 KLF" etc...
>
> Could anyone help me here? How should I program the FMC here?
>
> Many thanks!
>
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Sjaak

External


Since: May 29, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic.DeleteThis@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:vngs53dgcjkaou7gr0emtad8clij1j2nlm@4ax.com...
> Crash Lander writes:
>
> No STAR goes all the way to the ground. The end of the STAR is the start
> of
> the runway approach. In the FMC you select an approach to go with your
> STAR.

I guess that's true and that the appropriate approach from STAR to runway is
called a "transistion", as what I found out this morning. It took me quite a
while before I found out that I had to update the SID/STAR textfiles for
EHAM and EDDB within the PMDG-directory in order te be able to select an
appropriate transition. Using a transition, I believe, enables the aircraft
to do an automated landing, but I'll have to study on that some more;-)

Thanks!
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Sjaak

External


Since: May 29, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:465df4ba$0$69886$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>

> It just occured to me that if you can't get from KLF to 07R, then there
> must be a gap in the last leg of your route.
> Aren't you getting a DISCO on your FMC/CDU?

No I didn't get a DISCO, because I connected KLF directly to 07R. But this
was in fact of no use because the ILS beam was not found by the plane. The
plane ended up somewhere I didn't want, so I had to change to manual in
order to land. But the use of "transisions" should solve my problems (read
my other post).

Marcel bedankt!
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Sjaak

External


Since: May 29, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:465de282$0$329$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> You're following the R314 to KLF at 4000ft, begin descent to 3000ft, turn
> right to 068 and follow the glideslope down to 07R.
> There's no need for that 114 degree right turn...only if you overfly.
> Then you would climb to a safe altitude (between 1500 and 3000ft) and turn
> right to 100 and set up a go-around.
>
> The only 114 I see on the chart is 114.4, which is the SDD VOR.

I went from heading 313 to 068 = 114 degrees Smile) Sorry I didn't mean to
create a puzzle here:-)
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Mxsmanic

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Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 1872



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: How program FMC between STAR and rwy [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Sjaak writes:

> I guess that's true and that the appropriate approach from STAR to runway is
> called a "transistion", as what I found out this morning.

Yup. A transition is an entry or exit point for a procedure. A STAR, for
example, has one or more transition fixes via which the STAR procedure is
entered from en-route flight, and runway approaches have transitions (although
they are not called as such, they are called IAFs) through which they are
entered from STARs, and so on.

The approaches are the most rigid procedures; they are supposed to be followed
exactly. STARs are more likely guidelines: in theory you follow them
precisely, but ATC will often make minor modifications as you come in. The
same is true for instrument departures (SIDs), which you may follow exactly,
or which you may follow with ATC modifications.

> It took me quite a
> while before I found out that I had to update the SID/STAR textfiles for
> EHAM and EDDB within the PMDG-directory in order te be able to select an
> appropriate transition. Using a transition, I believe, enables the aircraft
> to do an automated landing, but I'll have to study on that some more;-)

STARs and SIDs change fairly frequently, every few months in some cases.
Approaches may also change, albeit not as often. SIDs can change with similar
frequency.

In contrast, actual navaids and waypoints change much more rarely.

You don't need a transition or any published procedure to do an autoland. All
you need is an aircraft capable of doing an autoland, and an ILS with glide
slope. In reality, the ILS approach must be certified for autoland; in
simulation, all ILS approaches are suitable for autoland. (The real life
certification is required to make sure that real-world equipment is within
acceptable tolerances, but since everything always works perfectly in
simulation, any ILS will do in the sim.)
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