How powerful are Summoners?

On Jan 19, 1:12 pm, pfjames2....TakeThisOut@googlemail.com (Peter James) wrote:
> Flank Groinpull <shr....TakeThisOut@t-online.de> wrote:
> > With some of the discussions lately about different builds, and giving
> > advice to a struggling summoner, I thought I'd give one more example
> > of how powerful summoners are.
>
> > I'm playing one now (he's in Act V Normal), and using only what I
> > find, buy, or gamble.  In Act I Normal, I luckily found the following
> > two items:
> > 1)  A wand with +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Corpse Explosion, +1 Teeth, 1 OS
> > 2)  A "handbag" w/+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Amp Damage, +1 Teeth.
>
> > Playing him untweaked, these could very well still be in use when I
> > finish the game.
>
> > Not too many builds leave Act 1 Normal with end-game weapons and
> > shields.
>
> Reading some of the builds available for this game that are free to read
> at various sites, I am always amazed at some of the equipment that the
> writers of these guides deem to be essential.  Amulets, rings armour and
> weapons I never see as a SP MF player.
> Reading some of these guides, makes it seem they are talking about a
> totally different game.
> But then, I use a Mac, and it's not possible to mule with a Mac.  Alas,

Peter,

I played SP on a Mac for a long time - it is a MUCH different game
that way - far fewer options, and there's nothing quite like finding
set items that you have to throw away for lack of stash space, only to
find more of the same set not long after.

I play on the realms now, and would not go back. It's too hard to
sustain interest after seeing the possibilities on line. Not to
mention mules (I'm running close to fifty mules this ladder, and
others have much more). As far as I know, there's no ATMA equivalent
available on the Mac (I think there was some effort made a while back
to port it, but sounds like that petered out - if you'll pardon the
expression

If you're not interested in partying with others, you can still play
alone on the realms and have the possibilities for muling. But it is a
lot of fun to interact with agd folks, and they're a pretty generous
lot (on all the realms, but I think the largest agd community is on US
West these days).

I still use a Mac, but supplement with a PC laptop so that I can rush
mules for forge drops and mule easier without risking temporary realm
bans. That also allows you to build your own enchantress and Battle
Orders barb to buff new characters to get them up in level faster (if
you find yourself bored with playing the early characters 'legit').

Regards,
Bruce
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

"Flank Groinpull" <shrike.TakeThisOut@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:fc065583-7c2e-4316-954e-119d9ddb112c@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> With some of the discussions lately about different builds, and giving
> advice to a struggling summoner, I thought I'd give one more example
> of how powerful summoners are.
>
> I'm playing one now (he's in Act V Normal), and using only what I
> find, buy, or gamble. In Act I Normal, I luckily found the following
> two items:
> 1) A wand with +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Corpse Explosion, +1 Teeth, 1 OS
> 2) A "handbag" w/+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Amp Damage, +1 Teeth.
>
> Playing him untweaked, these could very well still be in use when I
> finish the game.
>
> Not too many builds leave Act 1 Normal with end-game weapons and
> shields.

A summoner taking down the ubers.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bNQ2fCngwtM
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

Flank Groinpull wrote:
> With some of the discussions lately about different builds, and giving
> advice to a struggling summoner, I thought I'd give one more example
> of how powerful summoners are.
>
> I'm playing one now (he's in Act V Normal), and using only what I
> find, buy, or gamble. In Act I Normal, I luckily found the following
> two items:
> 1) A wand with +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Corpse Explosion, +1 Teeth, 1 OS
> 2) A "handbag" w/+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Amp Damage, +1 Teeth.
>
> Playing him untweaked, these could very well still be in use when I
> finish the game.
>
> Not too many builds leave Act 1 Normal with end-game weapons and
> shields.

I think my summoner still has the same wand and "handbag" that he got
in Act I as well. It's nice not having to worry about gear, especially
on my first character.

One thing I can't help but wonder, though, is how in the world can a
truly solo player (no summoned creatures) get through some of the parts
of this game? Sure, you have a hireling, but good lord, there are times
when I am swamped by creatures, yet they almost never touch me because
all my skeletons are taking care of them for me. I can only imagine how
difficult parts of this game must be for any other class.
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

"John Salerno" <johnjsal.RemoveThis@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:4792611d$0$6414$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> One thing I can't help but wonder, though, is how in the world can a truly
> solo player (no summoned creatures) get through some of the parts of this
> game?

A solo Necromancer, or a solo player in general?

> Sure, you have a hireling, but good lord, there are times when I am
> swamped by creatures, yet they almost never touch me because all my
> skeletons are taking care of them for me. I can only imagine how difficult
> parts of this game must be for any other class.

You also have to remember each class has their own strengths, as well. A
barb usually has BO and Shout, giving him immense life and defense, and will
most likely have life leech items so they get back health with every attack.
Pallies will have Holy Shield, giving them very high defense and high block,
plus Zeal gives them a ridiculously fast attack speed that hits multiple
foes, and will likewise be using life leech items. Sorceresses can just
teleport away from groups, and lay waste to enemies with AoE spells. Druids
have summons too, and very high life thanks to Oak Sage. Etc etc etc.
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:09:54 -0800 (PST), Flank Groinpull
<shrike DeleteThis @t-online.de> wrote:

>With some of the discussions lately about different builds, and giving
>advice to a struggling summoner, I thought I'd give one more example
>of how powerful summoners are.
>
>I'm playing one now (he's in Act V Normal), and using only what I
>find, buy, or gamble. In Act I Normal, I luckily found the following
>two items:
>1) A wand with +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Corpse Explosion, +1 Teeth, 1 OS
>2) A "handbag" w/+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Amp Damage, +1 Teeth.
>
>Playing him untweaked, these could very well still be in use when I
>finish the game.
>
>Not too many builds leave Act 1 Normal with end-game weapons and
>shields.

When you get to Hell you can buy a plus three to summoning skills wand
from a vendor.
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

Shiflet wrote:
> "John Salerno" <johnjsal.DeleteThis@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4792611d$0$6414$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>> One thing I can't help but wonder, though, is how in the world can a truly
>> solo player (no summoned creatures) get through some of the parts of this
>> game?
>
> A solo Necromancer, or a solo player in general?

I mean any class that has to fight through the game by itself, with
maybe just the hireling to help.
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

"John Salerno" <johnjsal DeleteThis @NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:4792819b$0$6370$607ed4bc@cv.net...

> I mean any class that has to fight through the game by itself, with maybe
> just the hireling to help.

Well, then what I was saying applies, other classes have their own strenghts
that let them do it. Barbs have higher life, more defense, and usually life
leech items as well. Melee pallies, generally speaking, have higher life,
higher def, and higher block than necros, plus very fast attack, and again,
life leech items let them take hits more readily than a necro can. And hdins
just do ridiculous amounts of unblockable, resistance ignoring damage and
can just use Redemption when they run low on life and mana. Sorcs can
teleport out of harms way, or use energy shield to reduce damage taken, and
have high AoE spells to clear groups quickly. Druids usually have very high
life plus their own summons(not as strong as a necromancers, but they can
still tank and serve as distractions) as well. Zons have decoy and valk to
distract monsters, and dodge/avoid/evade to avoid getting hit. Sins have
cloak of shadows, mindblast, and a shadow, all of which can serve to protect
them and reduce the number of incoming attacks. While summoner necros might
have the easiest time of it, every class has it's own ways of dealing with
things, it's just a matter of using what they have available.
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

Flank Groinpull <shrike RemoveThis @t-online.de> wrote:

> With some of the discussions lately about different builds, and giving
> advice to a struggling summoner, I thought I'd give one more example
> of how powerful summoners are.
>
> I'm playing one now (he's in Act V Normal), and using only what I
> find, buy, or gamble. In Act I Normal, I luckily found the following
> two items:
> 1) A wand with +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Corpse Explosion, +1 Teeth, 1 OS
> 2) A "handbag" w/+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Amp Damage, +1 Teeth.
>
> Playing him untweaked, these could very well still be in use when I
> finish the game.
>
> Not too many builds leave Act 1 Normal with end-game weapons and
> shields.
Reading some of the builds available for this game that are free to read
at various sites, I am always amazed at some of the equipment that the
writers of these guides deem to be essential. Amulets, rings armour and
weapons I never see as a SP MF player.
Reading some of these guides, makes it seem they are talking about a
totally different game.
But then, I use a Mac, and it's not possible to mule with a Mac. Alas,
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

Shiflet wrote:

> Well, then what I was saying applies, other classes have their own strenghts
> that let them do it.

Good point. But I would think it might take longer to clear an area of a
larger group of monsters than it does with the necromancer. CE in
addition to all the extra minions you've summoned really goes fast.

But I'm close to beating the game, so I can start over with another
class and see for myself.

Btw, if I beat the game in SP offline mode, do I still get to start an
online game in NM mode?
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

In article <47929a7c$0$11554$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
John Salerno <johnjsal.RemoveThis@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

> Shiflet wrote:
>
> > Well, then what I was saying applies, other classes have their own
> > strenghts
> > that let them do it.
>
> Good point. But I would think it might take longer to clear an area of a
> larger group of monsters than it does with the necromancer. CE in
> addition to all the extra minions you've summoned really goes fast.
>
> But I'm close to beating the game, so I can start over with another
> class and see for myself.
>
> Btw, if I beat the game in SP offline mode, do I still get to start an
> online game in NM mode?

No. How many times and ways does it need to be said? SP is SP. Online is
Online. They're two completely different universes that do not
communicate in any way, for any reason, under any circumstances.

--
Don Bruder - dakidd.RemoveThis@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

Flank Groinpull wrote:
> On Jan 19, 8:12 pm, pfjames2... DeleteThis @googlemail.com (Peter James) wrote:
>> Flank Groinpull <shr... DeleteThis @t-online.de> wrote:
>>> With some of the discussions lately about different builds, and giving
>>> advice to a struggling summoner, I thought I'd give one more example
>>> of how powerful summoners are.
>>> I'm playing one now (he's in Act V Normal), and using only what I
>>> find, buy, or gamble. In Act I Normal, I luckily found the following
>>> two items:
>>> 1) A wand with +3 Raise Skeleton, +3 Corpse Explosion, +1 Teeth, 1 OS
>>> 2) A "handbag" w/+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Amp Damage, +1 Teeth.
>>> Playing him untweaked, these could very well still be in use when I
>>> finish the game.
>>> Not too many builds leave Act 1 Normal with end-game weapons and
>>> shields.
>> Reading some of the builds available for this game that are free to read
>> at various sites, I am always amazed at some of the equipment that the
>> writers of these guides deem to be essential. Amulets, rings armour and
>> weapons I never see as a SP MF player.
>> Reading some of these guides, makes it seem they are talking about a
>> totally different game.
>> But then, I use a Mac, and it's not possible to mule with a Mac. Alas,- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I play exclusively SP, so I know what you mean, especially when it
> comes to runewords. I love these guides that say "wear an Enigma and
> have a Last Wish". My current summoner is in Act I Nightmare, and the
> highest rune I've found so far is an Amn. I'm level 50, and I haven't
> even been able to make a Lore helm yet, for Pete's sake!
Don't count on the valued items dropping. It won't happen. That's what
I hate most about this game. If you're just SP then try ATMA or Hero
Editor. With each you can create any item in the game. It's cheating
but fun too.
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

Don Bruder wrote:

> No. How many times and ways does it need to be said? SP is SP. Online is
> Online. They're two completely different universes that do not
> communicate in any way, for any reason, under any circumstances.

I'm not asking if I can transfer my character from offline to online.
I'm not an idiot and I understand this can't be done. What I was asking
was if, after beating the game in Normal difficulty offline, you could
start a NM game online -- not with the same character, just with any new
character.

I was thinking of the difficulties as something that gets unlocked as
you beat the game in the lesser difficulty, but I didn't realize it was
linked to the particular character as well.
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners? 

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:46:58 -0500, John Salerno
<johnjsal DeleteThis @NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>Shiflet wrote:
>
>> Well, then what I was saying applies, other classes have their own strenghts
>> that let them do it.
>
>Good point. But I would think it might take longer to clear an area of a
>larger group of monsters than it does with the necromancer. CE in
>addition to all the extra minions you've summoned really goes fast.
>
>But I'm close to beating the game, so I can start over with another
>class and see for myself.

Close to finishing Hell diff in SP? That's not easy for a beginner.

>Btw, if I beat the game in SP offline mode, do I still get to start an
>online game in NM mode?

No, because you can't use the same char.

-- Roy L
 >> Stay informed about: How powerful are Summoners?