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John Hwang

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Since: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 702



(Msg. 31) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:52 am
Post subject: Re: Painting Challenge 2006 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>miniatures>warhammer (more info?)

FunkyD wrote:
> John Hwang wrote:
>> John Hwang wrote:
>>> RGMW 1st Annual Painting Challenge
>>> Categories
>>>
>>> 1. 40k "OOTB" - a bog-standard Tactical Space Marine of any Chapter. You
>>> may use a Space Marine of any vintage, from Rogue Trader RTB-01 up to
>>> the current BfM monoposes. Model must be armed with Bolter or else Bolt
>>> Pistol and Chainsword. Model must be based on standard 25mm round
>>> base. No "conversion" work of any type is allowed: NO bitz, NO
>>> cutting, NO bending, NO scupting, NO banners.
>> I've settled on a model:
>>
>> http://public.fotki.com/JHwang/wip/rgmw/
>>
>> This is a Veteran Sergeant model built from the 40k3 Tactical Squad
>> boxed set, armed with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword. This model was built
>> to maximize painting opportunities:
>> - chainsword for bare metal
>> - bare head for flesh
>> - pouches for leather
>> - purity seal for parchment/cloth
>> - scope with lens
>> - large skull for bone
>>
>> I'm still debating whether to add the Auspex and/or Grenades for little
>> extra texture and contrast color against the potential additional
>> "clutter" on the model.
>>
>> Tho seeing it blown up 4x, I see that there are still a couple more mold
>> lines I'll have to clean up.
>
> I'll cite ya for violations already. That doesn't look like a
> stock fig to me.

In that case, you would be mistaken. All of my Tacticals are built from
the 40k3 sprues.

> The scope on the bolter is clearly aftermarket,

Wrong. It's a standard bit that comes on the 40k3 Tactical sprues.

> as is the helmet on the back

Nope. That is a standard ("targeter") helmet that also comes on the
40k3 Tactical sprues. You get at *least* 6 heads for every 5 Tactical
Marines.

> (if I recall the 3rd edition properly).

You obviously don't. Razz

> Just the stuff that's on the sprue and is SUPPOSED to be
> attached to the model,

Are you aware that the standard 40k3 Tactical Marine sprues include 2
small and 2 large pouches, 2 frag & 2 krak grenades, 2 purity seals, 2
combat knives, Auspex, etc.

In addition, the 40k3 Tactical Marine squad includes an "upgrade" sprue
that makes a Sergeant with BP, CCW with a metal basket guard, and with
an integral gorget on the chestplate.

As far as I'm concerned all of these are legitmate bitz that can be
incorporated onto the model.

> and no fancy additions

Correct.

> (can't recall if that facial scar is stock,

Given that I only cleaned mold lines on this model, it's stock.

You should be able to duplicate the model *exactly* if you break the
shrinkwrap on any sealed 40k3 Tactical Marine Squad boxed set.

> or aftermarket).

I believe that the head is from the 40k3 Tactical "upgrade" sprue.

It is *remotely* possible that the head is from a 40k3 Assault set, as I
did tear down a bunch of minis and fold them into the bitz piles while
building my Marines. If that is the case, I apologize for any confusion.


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny

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John Hwang

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Since: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 702



(Msg. 32) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:05 am
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Spack wrote:
> FunkyD wrote on 13 Oct 2006 04:42:08 -0700:

>>>> 1. 40k "OOTB" - a bog-standard Tactical Space Marine

>>> http://public.fotki.com/JHwang/wip/rgmw/
>>>
>>> This is a Veteran Sergeant

>> I'll cite ya for violations already.

> Not sure about the head, but it might be on the upgrade sprue too
> (you do get a helmetless head on there).

Yup. Smile

> The helmet could just be a spare head glued on - if he didn't cut
> the neck off, then he hasn't violated his own rules for this.

The "No Cutting" prohibition is intended to block a fairly wide variety
of conversion techniques:
- cutting elbows and knees to repose arms and legs,
- cutting limbs to rotate them,
- sectioning to reproportion models, and
- joining of multiple models together.
As all of these techniques require cutting of limbs / torso above and
beyond the removal of the part(s) from sprue, I simply shorthanded it
down to "no cutting".

So, getting back to my model: All Tactical helmets attach to the sprue
at the top of the helmet and at the bottom of the neck. I simply
separated the helmet from the sprue at the bottom of the helmet, so
technically, it's just removing the helmet bit from the sprue. Wink


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny

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FunkyD

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Since: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 112



(Msg. 33) Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:12 am
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John Hwang wrote:
> So, getting back to my model: All Tactical helmets attach to the sprue
> at the top of the helmet and at the bottom of the neck. I simply
> separated the helmet from the sprue at the bottom of the helmet, so
> technically, it's just removing the helmet bit from the sprue. Wink

LoL!

Perhaps for Painting Challenge 2007, you'll invent some rules you can
stick to.

"See, I made this custom banner from the battle for macragge ship
wreckage. Actually, I just used my knife to cut the plastic away from
the sprue that I didn't need.... really... I'm not making this up...."

D
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Spack

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Since: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 75



(Msg. 34) Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:24 pm
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John wrote on Sat, 14 Oct 2006 04:05:02 GMT:

> Spack wrote:
>> FunkyD wrote on 13 Oct 2006 04:42:08 -0700:
>
>>>>> 1. 40k "OOTB" - a bog-standard Tactical Space Marine
>
>>>> http://public.fotki.com/JHwang/wip/rgmw/
>>>>
>>>> This is a Veteran Sergeant
>
>>> I'll cite ya for violations already.
>
>> Not sure about the head, but it might be on the upgrade sprue too
>> (you do get a helmetless head on there).
>
> Yup. Smile
>
>> The helmet could just be a spare head glued on - if he didn't cut the
>> neck off, then he hasn't violated his own rules for this.
>
> The "No Cutting" prohibition is intended to block a fairly wide variety of
> conversion techniques:
> - cutting elbows and knees to repose arms and legs,
> - cutting limbs to rotate them,
> - sectioning to reproportion models, and
> - joining of multiple models together.
> As all of these techniques require cutting of limbs / torso above and
> beyond the removal of the part(s) from sprue, I simply shorthanded it down
> to "no cutting".
>
> So, getting back to my model: All Tactical helmets attach to the sprue at
> the top of the helmet and at the bottom of the neck. I simply separated
> the helmet from the sprue at the bottom of the helmet, so technically,
> it's just removing the helmet bit from the sprue. Wink
>

The neck is not sprue, you just admitted it yourself "bottom of the neck".
Sigh.

--
Dan
http://www.ageofstrife.com
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John Hwang

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Since: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 702



(Msg. 35) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:55 am
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FunkyD wrote:
> John Hwang wrote:
>> So, getting back to my model: All Tactical helmets attach to the sprue
>> at the top of the helmet and at the bottom of the neck. I simply
>> separated the helmet from the sprue at the bottom of the helmet, so
>> technically, it's just removing the helmet bit from the sprue. Wink
>
> LoL!
>
> Perhaps for Painting Challenge 2007, you'll invent some rules
> you can stick to.

Given that I created the rules, I think I'm following them. Smile


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
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FunkyD

External


Since: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 112



(Msg. 36) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:02 am
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John Hwang wrote:
> I simply
> separated the helmet from the sprue at the bottom of the helmet, so
> technically, it's just removing the helmet bit from the sprue. Wink

> Given that I created the rules, I think I'm following them. Smile

*swing and a miss*

Glad to hear you'll actually be sticking to a basic trooper though.
It's obvious even to you by now that sawing off a neck, etc, is
modifying the fig.

Wink

D
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FunkyD

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Since: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 112



(Msg. 37) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:06 am
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Jim M wrote:
> Why not put everyone on an even footing and pick something other then
> whatever current project you happen to be working on. I finished my
> Marines almost six years ago (well except for a few dozen terminators),
> and was faced with either going out and spending money on a Tactical
> Squad box (what a waste), buying a Tac Marine blister (which probably
> wouldn't qualify) or finding one that I hadn't painted. You mentioned
> submitting one that I had previously painted, but that wouldn't be much
> of a challenge.
>

The reasoning here Jim is to find a fig that most poeple already have
without having to buy/borrow one. Space Marines have been included in
every version of the boxed set, so it's probably a fig that most people
have lying around in one incarnation or another.

If there's another fig that you think everyone has, feel free to offer
it up, but currently, Marines are scattered about like pills at Anna
Nicole's house.

D
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Jim M

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Since: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 197



(Msg. 38) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:55 am
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In article <qS%Yg.10009$gx6.6890@trnddc05>, JohnHwangCSI.TakeThisOut@cs.com.no.com
says...
> Anyhow, as I said, I'll swap to a bolter Marine, so most of this is moot.
>

That would be better, as it will kick all controversy to the curb. You
really should have said what you meant in the first place though. BTW I
found a single pose Marine that came in an old paint set, I think it's
the same as the ones that came in the 2E box, just want to make sure
it's usable.

>
> And as for 2007, I should be done with my SM, so I'll pick another
> subject. Wink
>

Why not put everyone on an even footing and pick something other then
whatever current project you happen to be working on. I finished my
Marines almost six years ago (well except for a few dozen terminators),
and was faced with either going out and spending money on a Tactical
Squad box (what a waste), buying a Tac Marine blister (which probably
wouldn't qualify) or finding one that I hadn't painted. You mentioned
submitting one that I had previously painted, but that wouldn't be much
of a challenge.

Another suggestion would be to put up a poll on genbus and have people
vote which figure they would like to see painted for a challenge. Then
rather then using CMoN have all entries put in a folder on genbus and
then let people vote on the entries.

--
Jim M

In the grim darkness of the present, there is only September...
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Jim M

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Since: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 197



(Msg. 39) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:55 am
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In article <1161086808.710359.5040 DeleteThis @h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
FunkyDFink DeleteThis @gmail.com says...
>
> Jim M wrote:
> > Why not put everyone on an even footing and pick something other then
> > whatever current project you happen to be working on. I finished my
> > Marines almost six years ago (well except for a few dozen terminators),
> > and was faced with either going out and spending money on a Tactical
> > Squad box (what a waste), buying a Tac Marine blister (which probably
> > wouldn't qualify) or finding one that I hadn't painted. You mentioned
> > submitting one that I had previously painted, but that wouldn't be much
> > of a challenge.
> >
>
> The reasoning here Jim is to find a fig that most poeple already have
> without having to buy/borrow one. Space Marines have been included in
> every version of the boxed set, so it's probably a fig that most people
> have lying around in one incarnation or another.
>

So it's just a coincedence that John Happens to be working on a Space
MArine force right now?

> If there's another fig that you think everyone has, feel free to offer
> it up, but currently, Marines are scattered about like pills at Anna
> Nicole's house.
>

Why do Goblins, Orcs, 2ed Gretchin and Orks, Dark Eldar (everytime I
think I have finally purged these, I find a few more...), Lizardmen,
Skinks and Bretonnians immediately spring to mind?

--
Jim M

In the grim darkness of the present, there is only September...
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FunkyD

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Since: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 112



(Msg. 40) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:16 pm
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Jim M wrote:
> Why do Goblins, Orcs, 2ed Gretchin and Orks, Dark Eldar (everytime I
> think I have finally purged these, I find a few more...), Lizardmen,
> Skinks and Bretonnians immediately spring to mind?

Because you don't clean house / trade often enough. Wink

A few of these are kinda old school, although Goblins are probably
pretty close. However, 40K is still more popular than fantasy, and I'd
wager there's STILL more than twice the number of unused loose marines
floating around than any of these choices.

2 years ago, Dark Eldar might have been perfect, as everyone was pretty
much melting them down for scrap, or maybe even trying to see how many
decent blade bitz they could get off em. *smile* Alas, they are
heading the same direction as my beloved Chaos Dwarves. Razz

D
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Jim M

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Since: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 197



(Msg. 41) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:55 pm
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In article <1161116168.857353.289040 DeleteThis @i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
FunkyDFink DeleteThis @gmail.com says...
>
> Jim M wrote:
> > Why do Goblins, Orcs, 2ed Gretchin and Orks, Dark Eldar (everytime I
> > think I have finally purged these, I find a few more...), Lizardmen,
> > Skinks and Bretonnians immediately spring to mind?
>
> Because you don't clean house / trade often enough. Wink
>
> A few of these are kinda old school, although Goblins are probably
> pretty close. However, 40K is still more popular than fantasy, and I'd
> wager there's STILL more than twice the number of unused loose marines
> floating around than any of these choices.
>
> 2 years ago, Dark Eldar might have been perfect, as everyone was pretty
> much melting them down for scrap, or maybe even trying to see how many
> decent blade bitz they could get off em. *smile* Alas, they are
> heading the same direction as my beloved Chaos Dwarves. Razz
>
They should have never been treated as a seperate race anyway, they are
and always will be in my mind Eldar Pirates...
--
Jim M

In the grim darkness of the present, there is only September...
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Jim M

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Since: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 197



(Msg. 42) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:55 pm
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In article <1161116168.857353.289040.TakeThisOut@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
FunkyDFink.TakeThisOut@gmail.com says...
> Jim M wrote:
> > Why do Goblins, Orcs, 2ed Gretchin and Orks, Dark Eldar (everytime I
> > think I have finally purged these, I find a few more...), Lizardmen,
> > Skinks and Bretonnians immediately spring to mind?
>
> Because you don't clean house / trade often enough. Wink
>
> A few of these are kinda old school, although Goblins are probably
> pretty close. However, 40K is still more popular than fantasy, and I'd
> wager there's STILL more than twice the number of unused loose marines
> floating around than any of these choices.
>
>
Hey I still have some unpainted GW Judge Dredd mini's floating about
somewhere...

--
Jim M

In the grim darkness of the present, there is only September...
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Robert Singers

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Since: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 753



(Msg. 43) Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:51 pm
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Between saving the world and having a spot of tea Spack said

> 1. 40k "OOTB" - a bog-standard Tactical Space Marine of any Chapter.
>
> Yep. does say Tactical Space Marine, not Tactical Space Marine
> Sergeant Razz

A tactical space marine sergeant is still a tactical space marine.

I was borderline on the helmet and scope but looking at the definition of
the word conversion John would have had to swap a part from the 'vanilla'
sprues for a part from another sprue. Which he hasn't.

So in my IMHO opinion John is following his own rules. John not
contradicting himself OTOH is odd.

--
Rob Singers
RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Foemina Erit Ruina Tua
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John Hwang

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Since: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 702



(Msg. 44) Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:55 am
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Jim M wrote:
> FunkyDFink.RemoveThis@gmail.com says...
>> Jim M wrote:
>>> Why not put everyone on an even footing and pick something other then
>>> whatever current project you happen to be working on.

>> The reasoning here Jim is to find a fig that most poeple already have
>> without having to buy/borrow one. Space Marines have been included in
>> every version of the boxed set, so it's probably a fig that most people
>> have lying around in one incarnation or another.

Yup.

> So it's just a coincedence that John Happens to be working on a Space
> MArine force right now?

Sorta: I've been working on SM, or threatening to work on my SM for the
past 6 years.

>> If there's another fig that you think everyone has, feel free to
>> offer it up, but currently, Marines are scattered about like pills
>> at Anna Nicole's house.

Nice try for the outtake, tho I'm not biting.

> Why do Goblins, Orcs, 2ed Gretchin and Orks,

Ew. I don't have these, nor would I propose them for painting contests
- non-human flesh tones aren't as easy to evaluate. In this sort of
contest, I'd do a red-green reversal and paint a brown Ork/Orc. The
problem is that a greenskin in human flesh tones could be considered in
very poor taste.

> Dark Eldar

The problem with these models is that they want to be painted in very
specific colors. They somewhat limit the palette and room for making a
"winning" model. Nor do they particularly fire the imagination.

> Lizardmen, Skinks

These are even worse candidates than greenskins, as they're scaled, not
skin. Plus they're not human-shaped.

> Bretonnians immediately spring to mind?

These would be OK, if we were doing Peasants of some sort, but I suspect
you are thinking of the Bret Knights.


Thinking about it Bret Men At Arms / Empire Soldiers could actually be a
promising choice.


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
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John Hwang

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Since: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 702



(Msg. 45) Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:55 am
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FunkyD wrote:
> However, 40K is still more popular than fantasy,

I have been on Bartertown for almost a year now, and 40k is easily the
most popular game system on Bartertown.


--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
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