neverwinter nights 2 - opinions?

If it turns out to be everything it promises to be, then it will be one of
the very best CRPGs ever.

I feel that many people underestimate the huge achievement that was NWN1.
Maybe the original campaign wasn't the best we've seen from Bioware, but it
really wasn't that bad. Besides, if you look at the other merits of the
game, of which there are many, you will find a gem of a game. What they did
with the 3.0 rules, adapting them to real-time, making the gameplay flow in
a highly playable manner, is truly a marvel of technical ability.

NWN2 promises to get rid of the tiles and add a great campaign, with 3.5
rules as icing on the cake. It's hard to see how it can go wrong.

- Mike



"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING.TakeThisOut@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4401204a$0$93445$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...
> i've just seen some nice screenies in pcpowerplay. theyre using D&D3.5
> (D20?) and the graphics looks awesome. what do you know about the game so
> far?
>
> --
> Remove the _CURSEING to reply to me
>
> Knowledge can cure ignorance, but intelligence cannot cure stupidity.
>
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

Thusly "Michael Albertsen" <mikker RemoveThis @anarki.dk> Spake Unto All:

>If it turns out to be everything it promises to be, then it will be one of
>the very best CRPGs ever.

Feh.

>I feel that many people underestimate the huge achievement that was NWN1.
>Maybe the original campaign wasn't the best we've seen from Bioware, but it
>really wasn't that bad.

No, it was worse. It was god-awful. Justin Timberlake-like. NWN:OC is
one of the worst cRPG's I've ever played, second only to Dungeon
Lords. I honestly can't think of a single redeeming feature of NWN:OC
except that it actually did run, didn't have _too_ many game-killing
bugs, wasn't infected with starforce - oh, and the level with the
demon in the castle was nice. If only the rest of the game had been
like that.

>Besides, if you look at the other merits of the
>game, of which there are many, you will find a gem of a game. What they did
>with the 3.0 rules, adapting them to real-time, making the gameplay flow in
>a highly playable manner, is truly a marvel of technical ability.

NWN has two things going for it: it has a world editor & online
multiplayer capability (with DM). The game itself was buggy, poorly
designed, had *AWFUL* AI, dull story, retro graphics, and bland and
forgettable npc's.
People are apparently willing to overlook all that because they can
roll their own adventures with the editor. There clearly existed a big
market for an adventure-builder which you could make online adventures
with, as _even_ as poor an offering as NWN managed to sell well.

>NWN2 promises to get rid of the tiles and add a great campaign, with 3.5
>rules as icing on the cake. It's hard to see how it can go wrong.

Well, it could be drek like the first installment, for instance. But
you're right that it's hard to see how it could go wrong
_financially_.

--
O
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 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

Yeah, the original campaign was very bad. I've always considered NWN
to be a MP world building kit with a shitty demo campaign to show you a
bit of what can be done. Until some other company releases a MP world
building kit NWN will own the market, but if a better one come out,
preferably with a different game system instead of D&D, I'd jump on it
in a hot second. Bioware screwed up the editor too many times for my
taste.

NWN2 is going to have one problem, I will have to go in and rip out the
stupid 3.5 weapon resistance set ups on monsters that force players to
carry multiple weapons to cope with obscure material requirements to be
able to wound your target.
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

>I feel that many people underestimate the huge achievement that was NWN1.
>Maybe the original campaign wasn't the best we've seen from Bioware, but it
>really wasn't that bad.

"No, it was worse. It was god-awful. Justin Timberlake-like. NWN:OC is
one of the worst cRPG's I've ever played, second only to Dungeon
Lords."

I was very disappointed in the reactions to the original campaign. I
thought it was fine (average) and the incessant bashing of it didn't
match my views although thankfully didn't kill NWN1 altogether as I
feared it might. But then again I enjoyed Dungeon Lords as well. Yes
really.

> I feel that many people underestimate the huge achievement that was NWN1.

I agree with this more and more. The expansions were an improvement
over the original campaign and there are many fan-made modules which
are quite good (and some not as good).

In my view the biggest problem with NWN1 was that there was little
variety in areas and if I walked through yet another indoor "dungeon"
area with that diamond pattern on the floor I would scream.
Fortunately as the years have gone by there has been much more content
made by the NWN1 group and also by the community so this isn't much of
a problem nowadays. NWN1 is a great game nowadays and I have had more
life from it than any other PC game ever (which is saying a lot for my
20+ years playing PC rpg's).

With NWN2 I will be very interested to see if it has the same lack of
variety of initial content. I'm worried that Bioware -- who I think of
as by far the best in the business of crpg's (way ahead of any other
group) -- will not be developing NWN2 so I worry that it will have the
same medium-sized dropoff that KOTOR had from 1 to 2 or that huge
dropoff Icewind Dale 1 and 2 (non-Bioware) had from Baldur's Gate 1 and
2 -- the successors were still fairly good but not nearly as good as
the originals.
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

>So where does Pool of Radiance 2 fit in?
>I'd have put the NWN OC ahead of that, boring as it was.

Oh yes, it was much better than POR2, but really, that isn't saying
much.

>Do you have any suggestions for this 'new system'? (ie GURPS 4e,
>Hero System 5e, Rifts, TOON, TORG, Car Wars)

None of the above, I would rather not use any established system, it
just brings baggage to the game in the form of pre-conceived worlds,
franchises, and gits whining that the computer version doesn't follow
every rule of the PnP version. Let's see a new set of mechanics for a
new game.

>i do look forward to it, but real time? you pause like in kotor to queue
>henchmens attacks

You can't do that in multiplayer unless the DM allows it, and most
don't.
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> looked up from reading
the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the
signs say:

>Thusly "Michael Albertsen" <mikker.TakeThisOut@anarki.dk> Spake Unto All:
>
>>If it turns out to be everything it promises to be, then it will be one of
>>the very best CRPGs ever.
>
>Feh.
>
>>I feel that many people underestimate the huge achievement that was NWN1.
>>Maybe the original campaign wasn't the best we've seen from Bioware, but it
>>really wasn't that bad.
>
>No, it was worse. It was god-awful. Justin Timberlake-like. NWN:OC is
>one of the worst cRPG's I've ever played, second only to Dungeon
>Lords.

So where does Pool of Radiance 2 fit in?
I'd have put the NWN OC ahead of that, boring as it was.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

Michael Albertsen schrieb:
> If it turns out to be everything it promises to be, then it will be one of
> the very best CRPGs ever.

[...]

> with 3.5
> rules as icing on the cake. It's hard to see how it can go wrong.

The same things were said about The Temple of Elemental Evil. Just wait
and see what happens next.

-Niels-
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

"Alex Mars" <Soulclaw.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in news:1141010580.200979.86020
@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:

> Until some other company releases a MP world
> building kit NWN will own the market, but if a better one come out,
> preferably with a different game system instead of D&D, I'd jump on it
> in a hot second.

Do you have any suggestions for this 'new system'? (ie GURPS 4e,
Hero System 5e, Rifts, TOON, TORG, Car Wars)

I'm pretty sure that a feature list can be compiled with a visit to
Mobygames or by reading the FAQs, reviews and help files of many classic
titles (I know that reading the feature lists for some Angband variants was
eye-opening *shrug*) but how many people do you think would use puzzle-
locked chests, light-operated doors or spells that turn bratty princesses
into apples? (I made up that last example but it can be food for thought)

> NWN2 is going to have one problem, I will have to go in and rip out the
> stupid 3.5 weapon resistance set ups on monsters that force players to
> carry multiple weapons to cope with obscure material requirements to be
> able to wound your target.

I suppose it could be worse - there could be requirements like the presence
of certain gems, runes or spells/chemicals on specific areas of the
weapon/item in question or that certain tactics (ie flipping over a giant
beetle via a successful RNG-induced 'dice roll') be utilized in the
object's use in order to successfully strike an otherwise unreachable weak
spot. (It would certainly have made games like 'Rockman and Bass' and
'Ghouls and Ghosts' much harder)

Signed,
Warewolf
who wonders how certian inanimate objects would react to 'becoming human'
in an RPG (or how former petrification victims would react to the modern
world)
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

Quoth The Raven; Michael Albertsen <mikker RemoveThis @anarki.dk> in
<440217b2$0$78286$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>
> If it turns out to be everything it promises to be, then it will be
> one of the very best CRPGs ever.
>
> I feel that many people underestimate the huge achievement that was
> NWN1. Maybe the original campaign wasn't the best we've seen from
> Bioware, but it really wasn't that bad. Besides, if you look at the
> other merits of the game, of which there are many, you will find a
> gem of a game. What they did with the 3.0 rules, adapting them to
> real-time, making the gameplay flow in a highly playable manner, is
> truly a marvel of technical ability.
> NWN2 promises to get rid of the tiles and add a great campaign, with
> 3.5 rules as icing on the cake. It's hard to see how it can go wrong.
>
> - Mike

i do look forward to it, but real time? you pause like in kotor to queue
henchmens attacks

--
Remove the _CURSEING to reply to me

Glibido: All talk and no action.
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

Thusly "NFLed" <NFLed.TakeThisOut@aol.com> Spake Unto All:

>"No, it was worse. It was god-awful. Justin Timberlake-like. NWN:OC is
>one of the worst cRPG's I've ever played, second only to Dungeon
>Lords."
>
>I was very disappointed in the reactions to the original campaign.

So was I. The damn thing sold though it didn't deserve to, and games
like Gothic2 which deserved to sell didn't.

>But then again I enjoyed Dungeon Lords as well. Yes
>really.

That is completely and utterly incomprehensible to me.

A thought strikes me - do other people who liked NWN also find Dungeon
Lords enjoyable? Maybe these games are not just dreck, as I thought,
but represent a type of rpg which I personally don't happen to like?

If so, what's that type of rpg called, so I can avoid it?

>In my view the biggest problem with NWN1 was that there was little
>variety in areas and if I walked through yet another indoor "dungeon"
>area with that diamond pattern on the floor I would scream.

The reason I didn't like it was that it felt so uninspired and bland.
All npc's were intentionally expendable and interchangeable, the world
and graphics were the same Forgotten Realms we've seen a hundred times
before. There were constant little problems which maintained me in a
constant state of annoyance (ranging from henchmen getting stuck on
chandeliers or running off in the completely wrong direction at the
beginning of a fight, to memory leaks and corrupted savegames). I'm
willing to forgive a *lot* if I'm given a rich & interesting world to
explore but with the exception of one level, NWN:OC just didn't do
that.

--
O
-|- <--- Caricature of Muhammed.
/ \
 >> Stay informed about: neverwinter nights 2 - opinions? 

Thusly Xocyll <Xocyll.DeleteThis@kingston.net> Spake Unto All:

>>No, it was worse. It was god-awful. Justin Timberlake-like. NWN:OC is
>>one of the worst cRPG's I've ever played, second only to Dungeon
>>Lords.
>
>So where does Pool of Radiance 2 fit in?
>I'd have put the NWN OC ahead of that, boring as it was.

Never played it. I do avoid rpg's I know beforehand I will hate.

--
O
-|- <--- Caricature of Muhammed.
/ \
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Thusly "Alex Mars" <Soulclaw RemoveThis @gmail.com> Spake Unto All:

>I've always considered NWN
>to be a MP world building kit with a shitty demo campaign to show you a
>bit of what can be done.

Yep.

>Until some other company releases a MP world
>building kit NWN will own the market, but if a better one come out,
>preferably with a different game system instead of D&D, I'd jump on it
>in a hot second.

I can only agree. An easy-to-use and powerful world building kit, and
especially if it DIDN'T use D&D would rock.

>NWN2 is going to have one problem, I will have to go in and rip out the
>stupid 3.5 weapon resistance set ups on monsters

I've never been infatuated with D&D, and 3.5 just seem to accentuate
everything that was wrong with the earlier versions, so I've never
bothered to learn it.
--
O
-|- <--- Caricature of Muhammed.
/ \
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Thusly Warewolf <warewolfmypants RemoveThis @shaw.ca> Spake Unto All:

>> Until some other company releases a MP world
>> building kit NWN will own the market, but if a better one come out,
>> preferably with a different game system instead of D&D, I'd jump on it
>> in a hot second.
>
>Do you have any suggestions for this 'new system'? (ie GURPS 4e,
>Hero System 5e, Rifts, TOON, TORG, Car Wars)

No system designed for pen-and-paper, please. A new system designed
from the ground up for computer is what's needed, just using another
pnp system will just replace one quirky oversimplification with
another.

Personally I'd like to see rpg's play like fps's - the system should
be transparent to the user (even the mod-maker). When was the last
time anyone discussed what system the next Half Life should use?

--
O
-|- <--- Caricature of Muhammed.
/ \
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