judge: master and player issue

Jay Furr wrote:
> Ned Kelly <inquiries.RemoveThis@secrets40.com> wrote in news:dugshg$60g$1
> @nnrp.gol.com:
>
>
>>Hi, I am game master and a player in a game. Today I changed the
>>deadline and got back an email with several moves in it, see below. This
>>is not so bad this move as I noticed France's moves but as I am Turkey
>>they don't really matter at the moment. However I don't want to
>>accidently cheat. Can I turn this off somehow?
>
>
> You're mastering a game that you're also playing in?
>
> NO, you can't turn off all responses from the Judge that might show you
> what's going on. The master is SUPPOSED to see all that stuff.
>
> You're NEVER supposed to master a game you're playing in!
>

I CAN read English WITHOUT extra capitals thanks.

This is a PRIVATE game running on my OWN machine.

NK
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Ned Kelly wrote:

>
> Hi, I am game master and a player in a game. Today I changed the
> deadline and got back an email with several moves in it, see below.
> This is not so bad this move as I noticed France's moves but as I am
> Turkey they don't really matter at the moment. However I don't want
> to accidently cheat. Can I turn this off somehow?
>
> This is a PRIVATE game running on my OWN machine.


Of course in general it is not a good idea to master and play in the
same game. I assume that you didn't know that you'd receive responses
from the Judge including submitted orders from the other players.

The proposal is the same as usual:
Try finding someone who masters the game for you. (Normally, it doesn't
take long until someone out of this group volunteers.)

Though the reason for doing so is not the same.
If it is your machine, you can't actually break any rule forbidding to
play and master
I assume it could even be a greater problem for you than it could for
the other players. Assume you'd see the orders of a player that either
stabs you, or is at war with you before you have made a final decision
about your orders. It would be impossible not to become influenced by
that knowledge.

Dieter
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Ned Kelly wrote:
>
>
> Jay Furr wrote:
>
>> Ned Kelly <inquiries.TakeThisOut@secrets40.com> wrote in news:dugshg$60g$1
>> @nnrp.gol.com:
>>
>>
>>> Hi, I am game master and a player in a game. Today I changed the
>>> deadline and got back an email with several moves in it, see below.
>>> This is not so bad this move as I noticed France's moves but as I am
>>> Turkey they don't really matter at the moment. However I don't want
>>> to accidently cheat. Can I turn this off somehow?
>>
>>
>>
>> You're mastering a game that you're also playing in?
>>
>> NO, you can't turn off all responses from the Judge that might show
>> you what's going on. The master is SUPPOSED to see all that stuff.
>> You're NEVER supposed to master a game you're playing in!
>>
>
> I CAN read English WITHOUT extra capitals thanks.
>
> This is a PRIVATE game running on my OWN machine.
>
> NK

Worse! You are playing a game on a judge where you are the judgekeeper!

If you don't want to see the normal information that the master sees,
the game should have been set up as unmoderated. To do that, *don't*

BECOME MASTER

when you create the game, and be sure that AUTO_MASTER is not set to
"yes" in dip.conf. This is not generally allowed on public judges, but
if you are the JK, you can do what you want.

In an unmoderated game, any player can move deadlines and such. If you
really need to send a master only command, you can use the SPECIAL_PW
from dip.conf like so:

SIGNON @daikon SPECIAL_PW

Cheers,
Alan
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Ned Kelly <inquiries RemoveThis @secrets40.com> wrote in
news:dugvh7$6oe$1@nnrp.gol.com:

> Jay Furr wrote:
>> Ned Kelly <inquiries RemoveThis @secrets40.com> wrote in news:dugshg$60g$1
>> @nnrp.gol.com:
>>
>>
>>>Hi, I am game master and a player in a game. Today I changed the
>>>deadline and got back an email with several moves in it, see below.
>>>This is not so bad this move as I noticed France's moves but as I am
>>>Turkey they don't really matter at the moment. However I don't want
>>>to accidently cheat. Can I turn this off somehow?
>>
>>
>> You're mastering a game that you're also playing in?
>>
>> NO, you can't turn off all responses from the Judge that might show
>> you what's going on. The master is SUPPOSED to see all that stuff.
>>
>> You're NEVER supposed to master a game you're playing in!
>>
>
> I CAN read English WITHOUT extra capitals thanks.
>
> This is a PRIVATE game running on my OWN machine.

It's *still* benightedly stupid. You seemed SURPRISED by this turn of
events. I take it you've never served as a GM before?

--
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no god.
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson

"There's hits in chicken." -- Wade Boggs
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Jay Furr wrote:
> Ned Kelly <inquiries DeleteThis @secrets40.com> wrote in
> news:dugvh7$6oe$1@nnrp.gol.com:
>
>
>>Jay Furr wrote:
>>
>>>Ned Kelly <inquiries DeleteThis @secrets40.com> wrote in news:dugshg$60g$1
>>>@nnrp.gol.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi, I am game master and a player in a game. Today I changed the
>>>>deadline and got back an email with several moves in it, see below.
>>>>This is not so bad this move as I noticed France's moves but as I am
>>>>Turkey they don't really matter at the moment. However I don't want
>>>>to accidently cheat. Can I turn this off somehow?
>>>
>>>
>>>You're mastering a game that you're also playing in?
>>>
>>>NO, you can't turn off all responses from the Judge that might show
>>>you what's going on. The master is SUPPOSED to see all that stuff.
>>>
>>>You're NEVER supposed to master a game you're playing in!
>>>
>>
>>I CAN read English WITHOUT extra capitals thanks.
>>
>>This is a PRIVATE game running on my OWN machine.
>
>
> It's *still* benightedly stupid. You seemed SURPRISED by this turn of
> events. I take it you've never served as a GM before?
>

I am a highly experienced Unix system administrator and Linux kernel
programmer. One thing I am not, is stupid. You on the other hand are a
complete dick.



(I'm sorry to make this little corner of USENET like the rest of it but
this guy really is a jerk. I've usually found diplomacy players to be
extremely nice people.)
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Dieter Drobny wrote:
> Ned Kelly wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi, I am game master and a player in a game. Today I changed the
>> deadline and got back an email with several moves in it, see below.
>> This is not so bad this move as I noticed France's moves but as I am
>> Turkey they don't really matter at the moment. However I don't want to
>> accidently cheat. Can I turn this off somehow?
>>
>> This is a PRIVATE game running on my OWN machine.
>
>
>
> Of course in general it is not a good idea to master and play in the
> same game. I assume that you didn't know that you'd receive responses
> from the Judge including submitted orders from the other players.
>
> The proposal is the same as usual:
> Try finding someone who masters the game for you. (Normally, it doesn't
> take long until someone out of this group volunteers.)
>
> Though the reason for doing so is not the same.
> If it is your machine, you can't actually break any rule forbidding to
> play and master
> I assume it could even be a greater problem for you than it could for
> the other players. Assume you'd see the orders of a player that either
> stabs you, or is at war with you before you have made a final decision
> about your orders. It would be impossible not to become influenced by
> that knowledge.
>
> Dieter


Thanks Dieter it's nice to see there is at least one relatively sane
person here. I went to alot of effort to install a mail server and judge
software one weekend on my home machine just to facilitate this game of
friends.

You're right, I have no intention of cheating but I really don't want to
accidently see orders.

Thanks for your advice.

NK
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Ned Kelly <inquiries DeleteThis @secrets40.com> wrote in news:duipe1$mj5$1
@nnrp.gol.com:

>>>>You're mastering a game that you're also playing in?
>>>>
>>>>NO, you can't turn off all responses from the Judge that might show
>>>>you what's going on. The master is SUPPOSED to see all that stuff.
>>>>
>>>>You're NEVER supposed to master a game you're playing in!
>>>>
>>>
>>>I CAN read English WITHOUT extra capitals thanks.
>>>
>>>This is a PRIVATE game running on my OWN machine.
>>
>>
>> It's *still* benightedly stupid. You seemed SURPRISED by this turn of
>> events. I take it you've never served as a GM before?
>>
>
> I am a highly experienced Unix system administrator and Linux kernel
> programmer. One thing I am not, is stupid. You on the other hand are a
> complete dick.

Highly experienced coder you may be, but completely lacking in common sense
you are. I've been GMing games since 1991 and you're the first person this
completely devoid of reason and intellect that I've come across.

You do NOT play in games that you're GM of. You do NOT play in games on
your own server. It just Isn't Done. Doing so typically gets you banned
from all other servers and from all other GMs' games.

--
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no god.
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson

"There's hits in chicken." -- Wade Boggs
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Jay Furr wrote:
> I've been GMing games since 1991 and you're the first person this
completely devoid of reason and intellect that I've come across.

What about Conrad Minshall, Jay? Ned, ask him to tell you THAT story!
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

"<NameWithheld>" <no_one RemoveThis @gunboatdiplomacy.com> wrote in news:GB8Pf.3409
$6I.703@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> Jay Furr wrote:
>> I've been GMing games since 1991 and you're the first person this
> completely devoid of reason and intellect that I've come across.
>
> What about Conrad Minshall, Jay? Ned, ask him to tell you THAT story!

Conrad wasn't stupid. Just pathologically dishonest. Becoming infuriated
because a GM won't send press for him in a no-press game? I don't *think*
so.

--
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no god.
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson

"There's hits in chicken." -- Wade Boggs
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

"<NameWithheld>" <no_one.DeleteThis@gunboatdiplomacy.com> writes:

>Jay Furr wrote:
>> I've been GMing games since 1991 and you're the first person this
>completely devoid of reason and intellect that I've come across.

>What about Conrad Minshall, Jay? Ned, ask him to tell you THAT story!

Now that is completely not fair that "NameWithheld" is thinking that
he can get away with dropping the Conrad Minshall bomb without taking
ownership. Nevertheless, as one of the self-appointed feud avoidance
police, let me NOT pick up on that, NOT tell the story of Conrad
Minshall, his skin was pale and his eye WAS tall, rhyming of course,
and excluding the "original rhyme" because Jay has stated that Conrad
was this, but he really wasn't.

And let me remind Ned that he has been slammed by the famous
Joel "Jay" Furr, who is one of the most famous personalities in
the entire history of the Internet. Ned, you should be honored
that he bothered to exchange these comments with you.... really!

Then again, you also are correct that you blundered into this situation.
You did not set up a mail server/Judge with the express goal of
stealing your opponents' moves. And we DO welcome you to the hobby
of Judge Keepers. Of course you can have a private judge and run
it the way you want to. We actually might appreciate having an
active JudgeKeeper running another public judge, so please don't
let Jay's comments dissuade you.

And NO, we are NOT going to resurrect the Story of Conrad Minshall,
the demon Diplomacy player of apple.com, since Conrad was a great
Diplomacy player and his episode with Jay is worth nary a footnote
in the hobby's history.

IMHO,
Jim-Bob
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Jim Burgess <burgess.RemoveThis@TheWorld.com> wrote in news:duku0f$9pb$1
@pcls4.std.com:

> And NO, we are NOT going to resurrect the Story of Conrad Minshall,
> the demon Diplomacy player of apple.com, since Conrad was a great
> Diplomacy player and his episode with Jay is worth nary a footnote
> in the hobby's history.

Great, in some opinions. Dishonest as the day was long in other opinions.

--
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no god.
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson

"There's hits in chicken." -- Wade Boggs
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Jay Furr wrote:
> Jim Burgess <burgess.TakeThisOut@TheWorld.com> wrote in news:duku0f$9pb$1
> @pcls4.std.com:
>
>> And NO, we are NOT going to resurrect the Story of Conrad Minshall,
>> the demon Diplomacy player of apple.com, since Conrad was a great
>> Diplomacy player and his episode with Jay is worth nary a footnote
>> in the hobby's history.
>
> Great, in some opinions. Dishonest as the day was long in other
> opinions.

I don't think I've ever met a capable, let alone great,
Diplomacy player who wasn't dishonest. 'Cept me,
of course, I'd never lie to anyone, right Jim-Bob?

Eric.
--
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue 

Would running the judge on a home Linux box work even if the system was
not configured as a server? All you need is a mail account (in this case
POP, probably with a forwarding address) and a machine that is on and
on-line 99+% of the time, right?

Chris


Jim Burgess wrote:

> I would probably say that was risky. The hobby history of successes
> in the long run here is not good. It wouldn't be good if you had
> lots of games running, and then you took another job and the game
> server was lost. In that case, better to keep it private.
>
> But good luck with your game! You still can ask someone to sign
> in be your GM for you.
>
> Jim-Bob
 >> Stay informed about: judge: master and player issue