Best hardware to get the most from the game..

Dusty wrote:
> Got a question for the group..
>
> What's the best computer hardware to use with CoH/CoV so that one may get
> the most out of the game?
>
> I'm curious as to what kind of controllers are used, joysticks, mice,
> gamepad, keyboard.. that sort of thing, so that you get the max enjoyment
> from playing.
>
> Myself I use a multimedia keyboard, Logitech G5 gaming mouse and the
> Nostromo n52 Speedpad. what goodies do you have?

Obviously, you want the fastest and best CPU you can afford. Same rule
for graphics cards, but get something with an Nvidia chipset— try to
avoid ATI if you can.
Sound card is less important; many PCs ship with perfectly decent
onboard sound, and anyway CoX does not support many of the advanced
audio features you might get with an expensive and flashy sound card.
You are better off adding the cost of a sound card to your graphics card
budget instead.
My mouse is a Logitech MX-1000; very smooth, very responsive, and with
lots of handy programmable buttons. If you like to play with the
sensitivity cranked way up, this is a good choice.
For a keyboard, I use the Logitech G15. It is large, comfortable, and
has a ton of programmable buttons (which I do not actually use for CoH).
It's a bit pricey, but probably worth it. If $70 for a keyboard seems
extreme, a simple Logitech Elite is a good alternative, and can probably
be had for $25 or so.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Thus spake Richard Clayton <rZIGeclaZIGyton.RemoveThis@verizon.net>, Sat, 13 May 2006
16:27:25 GMT, Anno Domini:

>Dusty wrote:
>> Got a question for the group..
>>
>> What's the best computer hardware to use with CoH/CoV so that one may get
>> the most out of the game?
>>
>> I'm curious as to what kind of controllers are used, joysticks, mice,
>> gamepad, keyboard.. that sort of thing, so that you get the max enjoyment
>> from playing.
>>
>> Myself I use a multimedia keyboard, Logitech G5 gaming mouse and the
>> Nostromo n52 Speedpad. what goodies do you have?
>
> Obviously, you want the fastest and best CPU you can afford. Same rule
>for graphics cards, but get something with an Nvidia chipset— try to
>avoid ATI if you can.

<cough>*BULLSHIT*!!!<cough*

> Sound card is less important; many PCs ship with perfectly decent
>onboard sound, and anyway CoX does not support many of the advanced
>audio features you might get with an expensive and flashy sound card.
>You are better off adding the cost of a sound card to your graphics card
>budget instead.
> My mouse is a Logitech MX-1000; very smooth, very responsive, and with
>lots of handy programmable buttons. If you like to play with the
>sensitivity cranked way up, this is a good choice.

I'll give you that.

> For a keyboard, I use the Logitech G15. It is large, comfortable, and
>has a ton of programmable buttons (which I do not actually use for CoH).
>It's a bit pricey, but probably worth it. If $70 for a keyboard seems
>extreme, a simple Logitech Elite is a good alternative, and can probably
>be had for $25 or so.

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Nostromo wrote:
> Thus spake Richard Clayton <rZIGeclaZIGyton.DeleteThis@verizon.net>, Sat, 13 May 2006
> 16:27:25 GMT, Anno Domini:
>
>> Dusty wrote:
>>> Got a question for the group..
>>>
>>> What's the best computer hardware to use with CoH/CoV so that one may get
>>> the most out of the game?
>>>
>>> I'm curious as to what kind of controllers are used, joysticks, mice,
>>> gamepad, keyboard.. that sort of thing, so that you get the max enjoyment
>>> from playing.
>>>
>>> Myself I use a multimedia keyboard, Logitech G5 gaming mouse and the
>>> Nostromo n52 Speedpad. what goodies do you have?
>> Obviously, you want the fastest and best CPU you can afford. Same rule
>> for graphics cards, but get something with an Nvidia chipset— try to
>> avoid ATI if you can.
>
> <cough>*BULLSHIT*!!!<cough*

I know Nvidia vs. ATI fanboy fights can get as rabid as Intel vs. AMD
fanboy fights, so I'll just say this: I've had better experiences with
Nvidia cards; that's my own purely subjective opinion.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Nostromo <nospam RemoveThis @forme.org> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Thus spake Shenanigunner <shenanigunner RemoveThis @NOdgathSPAM.kom>, Sat, 13 May 2006
>22:38:14 -0000, Anno Domini:
>
>>Nostromo <nospam RemoveThis @forme.org> wrote:
>>>> ...get something with an Nvidia chipset— try to avoid ATI if you can.
>>
>>> <cough>*BULLSHIT*!!!<cough*>
>>
>>Uh, no. NCsoft and Cryptic make no secret at all that the game is
>>developed to suit Nvidia and everything else tags along. It's right there
>>in your splash screen - take a look. It's also in the history of problems
>>that have nagged ATI systems since the first release of the game.
>
>History, that's right. Some texture shearing & clipping issues early on,
>though I'm not convinced NVidia users experienced none of it.

You forgot the color issues, and things like lights on buildings not
appearing at all for ATi users. This was heavily reported and
experienced by NO nVidia user since it was totally an ATi problem.

ATi claimed it wasn't their fault, but then kind of ruined that claim by
fixing the problem in a later driver issue.

Everything else being equal dude, the Coh/CoV Devs have made no secret
that nVidia is their card of choice - so if CoH/CoV is a priority,
nVidia is a better choice if you want to avoid any current/future
graphic issues.

Is it "better"?
Who knows, but it's what they are coding the game for.

Horses for courses.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

"Nostromo" <nospam.DeleteThis@forme.org> wrote in message
news:jnrd629710klsfgc3932te2i7fo2st3664@4ax.com...
| Thus spake Shenanigunner <shenanigunner.DeleteThis@NOdgathSPAM.kom>, Sat, 13 May 2006
| 22:38:14 -0000, Anno Domini:
|
| >Nostromo <nospam.DeleteThis@forme.org> wrote:

<assorted video card rants, raves, reviews, and rebuttals clipped>

|
| As I said above, nothing to do with that, quite the contrary. My
preference
| for ATI is for now & because it's tv-out implementation shits all over
| NVidia's. I used to prefer NVidia b4 my 9600Pro. Next card who knows.
| Personally, I wish a 3rd player would come out of nowhere & spank them out
| of their complacency.
|

Well, the "next big thing" in video cards and gaming is supposedly going to
be physics processing. I just read a few nice articles on it (have to dig
to remember what the source was), and guess what? The leader in physics
processing engines isn't nVidia or ATI... Right now the leader has just
released a new card called PhysX, I remember the name of the card but not
the company itself. Anywho, it's an add-on card that does all of the
physics processing, reducing the strain on the CPU, and uses the existing
video card for output. The race will be to see who can incorporate that
type of engine into a video card, and it may lead to some interesting
competition.

Should be interesting

--
Infinity Server
-----------------------
CoinSpin (M) - 50 Tech Blaster - Rifle/Energy
Joe Freez (M) - 26 Magic Controller - Ice/Emp
CoinSpawn (M) - 31 PeaceBringer
CoinShade (M) - 36 WarShade
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Is there something that's good to use if one happens to have arthritis (and
holding buttons down for long periods means loads-o-pain)?
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Thus spake Xocyll <Xocyll.RemoveThis@kingston.net>, Sun, 14 May 2006 07:22:00 -0400,
Anno Domini:

>Nostromo <nospam.RemoveThis@forme.org> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>Thus spake Shenanigunner <shenanigunner.RemoveThis@NOdgathSPAM.kom>, Sat, 13 May 2006
>>22:38:14 -0000, Anno Domini:
>>
>>>Nostromo <nospam.RemoveThis@forme.org> wrote:
>>>>> ...get something with an Nvidia chipset— try to avoid ATI if you can.
>>>
>>>> <cough>*BULLSHIT*!!!<cough*>
>>>
>>>Uh, no. NCsoft and Cryptic make no secret at all that the game is
>>>developed to suit Nvidia and everything else tags along. It's right there
>>>in your splash screen - take a look. It's also in the history of problems
>>>that have nagged ATI systems since the first release of the game.
>>
>>History, that's right. Some texture shearing & clipping issues early on,
>>though I'm not convinced NVidia users experienced none of it.
>
>You forgot the color issues, and things like lights on buildings not
>appearing at all for ATi users. This was heavily reported and
>experienced by NO nVidia user since it was totally an ATi problem.
>
>ATi claimed it wasn't their fault, but then kind of ruined that claim by
>fixing the problem in a later driver issue.
>
>Everything else being equal dude, the Coh/CoV Devs have made no secret
>that nVidia is their card of choice - so if CoH/CoV is a priority,
>nVidia is a better choice if you want to avoid any current/future
>graphic issues.
>
>Is it "better"?
>Who knows, but it's what they are coding the game for.
>
>Horses for courses.

As always. I'll allow for the facts, but all I was suggesting was that not
everyone's experience was destroyed by a few graphics glitches & missing
lights. Hell, I never even noticed! Ignorance is bliss

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Thus spake Shenanigunner <shenanigunner.TakeThisOut@NOdgathSPAM.kom>, Mon, 15 May 2006
17:57:32 -0000, Anno Domini:

>Nostromo <nospam.TakeThisOut@forme.org> wrote:
>
>>>> I guess now you're going to convince me I'm either delusional
>>>> or lying or an ATI fanboy? Pfft.
>
>>> Nope. Because ... I left the fanboy benchmark komputerz-r-fer-messing-
>>> with stage probably about the time you were born.
>
>> I doubt it mate, unless you're well into your 60s!
>
>Okay, let's just leave it at "Nope," although for point of reference the
>crossover point for me was about 1989. The other thing I left behind long

I started 'playing' with PCs/computers around 1979.

>ago was working up a sweat because someone chose a different computer
>component, car, job, lifestyle or hobby than I did.
>
>There was a time I mucked with computers for the sake of doing so, wrote
>utility software, tweaked the tiniest details, and fretted over minor
>differences in drive seek rates. But when you cross the line to where a
>computer is a tool, and one that has to be stone-reliable 24/7/365, and
>you actually use that tool to accomplish things, worrying about
>benchmarks and framerates and two-percent performance issues just falls
>off the map. I need substantial power and extraordinary reliability over
>all - not maxed-out power at the cost of stability and reliability.

Funnily enough, that's one of the main reasons I pick ATI over NVidia these
days. Don't believe everything you read SG

>So if ATI jazzes your clock, great. I don't care to argue about it.

Sure. ;-p

>You are still being nonsensical about the debate WRT CoX, though. It is
>clear that many video cards work just fine with it, ATI included. It is
>also a matter of record that NCSoft/Cryptic developed it for Nvidia and
>are not overly concerned with compatibility issues elsewhere. Do ATI

Again, don't believe everything you read. I doubt they would just discount
close to 1/2 of their market segment out of hand. In fact, now your the one
debating that NVidia is better than ATI because Cryptic have tweaked the
game for it & squeezed an extra 5% out of it. Personally, I'd rather go with
generic drivers as they prove to be more reliable than twinked out h/ware.
Optimising h/ware & drivers for one brand of card (to the exclusion of
others) invariably ends up with a large segment of their own user base
getting into trouble because they only _usually_ tweak top end
models...anyone with midrange or lower card could be SOL quite often. The
boards are full of this sort of thing too. <penny drops>

>cards run just fine, especially with some care in tweaking and driver
>selection? Sure. Does it matter much? No. Is frantically arguing that the

This we agree on. Go back to what the OP said & what I took exception to.
Read it again. A blanket *warning* to stay away from ATI for CoX is
<cough>BS!<cough>, plain & simple.

>Nvidia-centric position of the developers is somehow illusionary or false
>worth any brainfire at all? No.

Strawman again. I never said the game wasn't optimised or ran slightly
better on Nvidia gear. Reading...the lost art...;-p

>And if you're one of those who uses a PC as a media center and "needs" TV
>out, fine. It's a feature of zero use to me and so I don't use it to rank
>video adapter suitability. (In general, I don't like multi-function
>"tools" when separate, optimized tools will work better. When I build a

At much greater expense usually...

>media center PC, I'll likely select the best TV-out card I can find at
>any level and have zero concern for the regular video characteristics.)

To each their own, but I prefer to say 90% is good enough if I get a good
general-purpose, multi-function device that's better overall. Which is why I
choose ATI.

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

"Dusty" <No.One DeleteThis @home.org> wrote in message
news:zNmdnd7Z9sqznvvZRVn-gQ@adelphia.com...
| Got a question for the group..
|
| What's the best computer hardware to use with CoH/CoV so that one may get
| the most out of the game?
|
| I'm curious as to what kind of controllers are used, joysticks, mice,
| gamepad, keyboard.. that sort of thing, so that you get the max enjoyment
| from playing.
|
| Myself I use a multimedia keyboard, Logitech G5 gaming mouse and the
| Nostromo n52 Speedpad. what goodies do you have?
|
|

Ironically enough, this thread initially was a question about input devices,
but ended up being a video card debate that has gone back and forth and it
keeps fluttering dangerously over the "fan-boy" edge. In general, though,
it seems to come down to an issue of opinion and semantics. So I decided to
go look on the support site for the specs recommended by the devs. Here
they are.

Minimum System Requirements:


a.. Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP
b.. Intel® Pentium® III 800 MHz or AMD AthlonT 800 MHz
c.. 512 MB RAM
d.. CD-ROM Drive *
e.. 4 GB Available HDD Space
f.. NVIDIA® GeForce 2 Series, ATIT Radeon® 8500 or Intel® i865G Series
Video Card
g.. 16-bit Sound Card
h.. 56k modem
i.. DirectX® 9.0c
Recommended System Requirements:


a.. Microsoft Windows 2000/XP
b.. Intel Pentium 4 2.0 GHz or AMD® Athlon XP 2000+
c.. 1 GB RAM
d.. 16X CD-ROM Drive *
e.. 4 GB Available HDD Space
f.. NVIDIA GeForce 6200
g.. 16-bit Sound Card
h.. Broadband Internet Connection DirectX 9.0c
So, they "recommend" nVidia... Why is that? Well, the simple reason is the
same that most other game developers recommend one type of card over the
other. It's not that it was coded SPECIFICALLY for that card, that would be
cutting off half of your user base. It's generally that the development
systems used to program and test the game during conception and in-house
betas are of one hardware "flavor" to keep individual hardware issues to a
minimum. They code on one base type of hardware, which is often times
discounted/loaned/donated to the developer to be able to pop up that big
lovely video card splash screen. Then they get it all debugged and go out
into the world to do some cross-platform testing to tweak any kinks that
might show up. In the case of CoX, they happend to prefer and use nVidia
equipment. Does that mean it won't work on ATI? Well, they wouldn't list
it in the minimum system requirements if it didn't work. Will it work
better on nVidia? Maybe, but only because they seem to have coded it on
nVidia equipment. If there develops an issue with ATI or other video cards,
they will find a fix and get it out quickly (as they have done on many of
the early patches).

I personally have used voodoo, ATI, Intel, nVidia, and a few generic video
cards in the past. I've had my share of minor spec problems with all of
them, but those are normal in an industry that is always developing new and
better equipment... It's hard for the software guys to keep up sometimes,
considering that in the years of development on a game they might see 3
generations of video cards come and go.

Basically, at this point, I think it's up to the player's own preferences as
to which way to go in the video department. Usually the player has some
experience and prefers one type over the other. If there is no preference,
then it can't hurt to go with the game developer's recommended hardware,
particularly if playing CoX is the main focus of wondering what equipment to
use.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury... You decide.


--
Infinity Server
-----------------------
CoinSpin (M) - 50 Tech Blaster - Rifle/Energy
Joe Freez (M) - 26 Magic Controller - Ice/Emp
CoinSpawn (M) - 31 PeaceBringer
CoinShade (M) - 36 WarShade
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Is there any chance we could actually get back to the OP and get off this
fan-futz BS about who's video card is better.

The OP was NEVER about video cards. But some zipper-head (who will remain
nameless) just "had" to make it into a pissing contest about them anyway!
What a moron.
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Thus spake Richard Clayton <rZIGeclaZIGyton RemoveThis @verizon.net>, Tue, 16 May 2006
22:14:15 GMT, Anno Domini:

> I wasn't going to say anything further, but you've now accused me of
>lying twice and I feel obliged to defend myself.

No I didn't - I accused you of general ignorance & spreading misinformation.

> I had a hell of a time getting /City of Heroes/ to run on my laptop,
>which has an ATI chipset.

There's a *huge* clue right there in that first sentence. Can you pick the
word I'm taking about boyz n girlz?

> I also had to provide some trouble-shooting
>for a friend with an ATI graphics card in his computer. On the other

A non-IT literate friend who'd made a dog's breakfast of his PC perhaps?

>hand, I had absolutely zero problems running CoH on my desktop-- which
>has an Nvidia chipset. I do a great deal of computer troubleshooting for
>other people, and overall I feel have seen fewer issues with Nvidia
>cards than ATI.

Overall, probably a small percentage more. Are we talking exclusively the
last 2 years or the 5 years before that? That's really important to know
right there. And it's still a far cry from the blanket sweeping statement
of: "but get something with an Nvidia chipset— try to avoid ATI if you can"

> Based on these experiences, plus the fact that CoH is has a great big
>Nvidia logo on the load screen, I felt justified suggesting Nvidia. I

You did more than just make a recommendation. Unless your English is
different from mine, which is always possible if you're from the US & voted
Bush >

>did not say that Nvidia is categorically better than ATI. I did not say
>"LOLZ nvidia pwns ati LOLZORZ!!!!"

Yup, you pretty much did, & w/o the l33t speak, which made it look like it
actually carried some weight or gnostic technical knowledge the rest of us
could only aspire to. We all know NOW that wasn't the case.

> I PARTICULARLY did not make any "blanket statement that ATI has
>significant performance/functionality issues with CoX." I realize it
>would be easier for you to argue my point if you could paint me as a
>rabid Nvidia fanboy, but I did not say the words you are trying to put

I never said that either. I only (still) contend that you have an unhealthy
view of ATI which is not grounded in fact. 2 or 3 bad personal experiences
does not give you authority to advise *against* a product without doing a
bit more research & having some actual *facts* (statistical & otherwise) to
bring to the table.

>in my mouth. In fact, the person who looks like he has an axe to grind

It's a case of how the average, *reasonable* person will interpret those few
strategically spoken words & I think you were well aware of that when you
said it. No backpedaling now. Bzzt! (It wasn't even a personal attack on you
at any point really - I don't know you well enough to care - it was clearly
just a refutation of the <cough>*BULLSHIT*!<cough> statement

>is you, since all I did was politely recommend one brand of GPU over
>another, and you have twice shouted "bullshit!" I do not appreciate
>having my honesty questions, particularly when I have given you no cause
>to do so.

Keep sayin the sky is green...if you look hard enough...

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

| > I had a hell of a time getting /City of Heroes/ to run on my laptop,
| >which has an ATI chipset.
|
| There's a *huge* clue right there in that first sentence. Can you pick the
| word I'm taking about boyz n girlz?
|

Hmmm... has to be "hell" right? I mean, it can't be "laptop" there. I
have a 2 year old laptop that runs CoH just fine, as well as pretty much
everything except maybe some of the majorly graphigasmic titles that are
hitting the shelves today. My frequent travels would be boring as hell
without it. And, considering laptops outsold desktops for, what, 2 years
running now? I'd hope the devs are at least considering their increasingly
mobile audience...

Oh, and just to add fuel to the fire? My notebook has an nVidia chipset...
*duck*

CoinSpin
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game.. 

Nostromo <nospam RemoveThis @forme.org> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

Nos, you've gone deep into fanboy territory.

He wasn't saying anything about ATi in general, he was speaking DIRECTLY
about CoH/CoV.

The games ARE written for nVidia cards - like it or not that's a FACT.
So not buying ATi IF PLAYING COH IS YOUR DETERMINING FACTOR is the right
way to go to avoid potential problems, because there sure as hell were
problem with ATi cards and COH in the past.
Whether YOU PERSONALLY saw them or not, hundreds (if not thousands) of
others did.

You're acting like an asshat and you're coming off as Mr. ATi-Fanboy.

Look up at the title of this thread again;

Best hardware to get the most from THIS GAME - not everything, THIS GAME
- and THIS GAME WAS CODED FOR nVIDIA CARDS.
The fact that ATi MOSTLY runs it without problems is irrelevant - to get
the most from a game coded for nVidia, you have to use nVidia.


Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
 >> Stay informed about: Best hardware to get the most from the game..