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Since: Nov 19, 2004 Posts: 1559
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:07 am
Post subject: It's too hard to be a Shammy Archived from groups: alt>games>warcraft (more info?)
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I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
two. Warriors and Shamans.
I like tanking with the warrior but I don't like levelling him so he's
stuck at 38 now. I don't like levelling him because I hate the rage
mechanic. Whenever you have to pause to heal up or move on to another
area you lose the rage and then you need to get it going again to
start dpsing. I hate that. I just can't get used to not being able
to use all my abilities at the start of a fight. I know and
understand that this is why I don't like my warrior.
The Shaman is an odd thing. I have no idea why I can't play one
effectively. I started and deleted a number of Shamans before I even
got one to level 10!
My current attempt is at level 23 but I'm not enjoying him at all. I
have him specced enhancement and I have a good blue 2h axe and he just
seems to be too fragile. Also, there's not much to do that I can
see. I generally cast my totems, open with lightning and cast
lightning shield on incoming and then fire shock when in range. Now
what? There just seems to be auto-attack from then on with shocks
when I get the 60% cheaper buff from a crit. If I get an add then
that's usually all my mana gone and if I didn't start with full health
and mana it will often mean that I'll have to run off or die.
I normally only start off with strength of earth totem and cast
healing stream and searing totem if I need to. Even one on one it's
much more effort than any other character that I've played. I'm
currently questing in the charred vale which is a bugger for adds and
so is making the problem even worse than it has been.
The mobs that I'm fighting in the vale are 2 or 3 levels above me but
I'm sure that I've just followed the quests the same way as I always
do and I'm sure that I've done this zone with other characters at this
level.
steve.kaye >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 1207
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:39 am
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 15, 8:07 am, "steve.kaye" <nos....TakeThisOut@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
> I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
> two. Warriors and Shamans.
>
> I like tanking with the warrior but I don't like levelling him so he's
> stuck at 38 now. I don't like levelling him because I hate the rage
> mechanic. Whenever you have to pause to heal up or move on to another
> area you lose the rage and then you need to get it going again to
> start dpsing. I hate that. I just can't get used to not being able
> to use all my abilities at the start of a fight. I know and
> understand that this is why I don't like my warrior.
>
> The Shaman is an odd thing. I have no idea why I can't play one
> effectively. I started and deleted a number of Shamans before I even
> got one to level 10!
>
> My current attempt is at level 23 but I'm not enjoying him at all. I
> have him specced enhancement and I have a good blue 2h axe and he just
> seems to be too fragile. Also, there's not much to do that I can
> see. I generally cast my totems, open with lightning and cast
> lightning shield on incoming and then fire shock when in range. Now
> what? There just seems to be auto-attack from then on with shocks
> when I get the 60% cheaper buff from a crit. If I get an add then
> that's usually all my mana gone and if I didn't start with full health
> and mana it will often mean that I'll have to run off or die.
>
> I normally only start off with strength of earth totem and cast
> healing stream and searing totem if I need to. Even one on one it's
> much more effort than any other character that I've played. I'm
> currently questing in the charred vale which is a bugger for adds and
> so is making the problem even worse than it has been.
>
> The mobs that I'm fighting in the vale are 2 or 3 levels above me but
> I'm sure that I've just followed the quests the same way as I always
> do and I'm sure that I've done this zone with other characters at this
> level.
>
> steve.kaye
My goal was to have at least 1 of each class up to level 20 or above.
I've managed to do this with all but priest, warrior, and shaman. I
somewhat enjoyed playing my priest, and I think he is close to 20 now,
so I should really switch back to him and finish that one out. But I
just can't get any enthusiasm for warrior or shaman. When my warrior
hit level 10 I bought him a bunch of nice gear on the AH, and he
started to kill things really easily at that level, but I don't think
I have taken him past 12. Likewise, I played my shaman just the other
night, and hit 12 with him. The totem system just seems too clumsy to
me and I rarely even throw down a totem.
Part of my problem here might not even be with the classes. It might
have more to do with the starting zones. I hate Mulgore and Durotar.
The size of the zones and difficulty of a few of the quests make them
unenjoyable for me. Tirisfal is a little better, and pre-TBC was my
hordie low level zone of choice. Eversong was a big surprise to me
when TBC came out. Quests are well laid out, have nice progression,
and none of them are overly difficult. I've leveled a warlock,
paladin, rogue, hunter, mage, and now my warrior, priest, and shaman
there. Only 3 of those classes I rolled as BE's. The rest I ran
there soon after hitting level 5. As such, I;ve done Eversong a bunch
of times and its gotten a little boring. Other than discovering an
isolated quest giver with 2 quests I missed on a bunch of earlier
characters, there hasn't been much excitement in Eversong. But I
still don't want to go back to any of the other zones. >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Nov 19, 2004 Posts: 1559
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 15 Jul, 14:30, Brent Stroh <bmst... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> "steve.kaye" <nos... DeleteThis @giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
> >I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
> >two. Warriors and Shamans.
>
> That's not a good sign - the 3 classes I haven't started yet are warrior,
> paladin, and shaman. Sounds like round 3 will be a bit painful.
 The Paladin class was the next hardest for me to get started. I
made several attempts that stopped at about level 15. It took playing
as part of a constant group to get me past that level. I've now got
him to level 66.
steve.kaye >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Nov 19, 2004 Posts: 1559
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:16 am
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 15 Jul, 15:12, Dirk <newsp....RemoveThis@cubeworld.net> wrote:
> steve.kaye wrote:
> > On 15 Jul, 14:30, Brent Stroh <bmst....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> "steve.kaye" <nos....RemoveThis@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
> >>> two. Warriors and Shamans.
> >> That's not a good sign - the 3 classes I haven't started yet are warrior,
> >> paladin, and shaman. Sounds like round 3 will be a bit painful.
>
> > The Paladin class was the next hardest for me to get started. I
> > made several attempts that stopped at about level 15. It took playing
> > as part of a constant group to get me past that level. I've now got
> > him to level 66.
>
> I rolled two Paladins and couldn't get them above level 10, even deleted
> the chars. I waited one year and finally rolled one again ... turned out
> to be my favorite char and is now level 70.
>
> I hated my priest, leveled full shadow up to 30 and quit. Reactivated
> him recently, respecced to Discipline and love it. Might even take him
> to 70 once but it's not a high priority currently.
>
> Sometimes you just have to find a style you are comfortable with.
Yeah, maybe I should ignore the best levelling spec info and go
elemental with my Shammy.
steve.kaye >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 113
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:30 am
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"steve.kaye" <nospam.RemoveThis@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
>two. Warriors and Shamans.
That's not a good sign - the 3 classes I haven't started yet are warrior,
paladin, and shaman. Sounds like round 3 will be a bit painful.
Of course, I'm also the guy who NEVER used a wand on a warlock, and finally
got around to getting one for my priest in his teens - I somehow started
living a bit more and having mana left.  I do make my own life
difficult sometimes...
-Brent >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Nov 13, 2007 Posts: 85
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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steve.kaye wrote:
> I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
> two. Warriors and Shamans.
>
> ...
>
> The Shaman is an odd thing. I have no idea why I can't play one
> effectively. I started and deleted a number of Shamans before I even
> got one to level 10!
>
> My current attempt is at level 23 but I'm not enjoying him at all. I
> have him specced enhancement and I have a good blue 2h axe and he just
> seems to be too fragile. Also, there's not much to do that I can
> see. I generally cast my totems, open with lightning and cast
> lightning shield on incoming and then fire shock when in range. Now
> what? There just seems to be auto-attack from then on with shocks
> when I get the 60% cheaper buff from a crit. If I get an add then
> that's usually all my mana gone and if I didn't start with full health
> and mana it will often mean that I'll have to run off or die.
>
> I normally only start off with strength of earth totem and cast
> healing stream and searing totem if I need to. Even one on one it's
> much more effort than any other character that I've played. I'm
> currently questing in the charred vale which is a bugger for adds and
> so is making the problem even worse than it has been.
>
> The mobs that I'm fighting in the vale are 2 or 3 levels above me but
> I'm sure that I've just followed the quests the same way as I always
> do and I'm sure that I've done this zone with other characters at this
> level.
Glad I'm not the only one who has that problem. Mine is level 27
currently and I went Elemental with him. Thought that was my problem but
it seems the same for you with a enhancement build.
I have to sit down and drink all the time, mana is an issue for sure and
the auto-attack alone is too weak. I can take down two or three mobs and
then I have to drink. He's not particular weak, I can manage orange mobs
with him fairly well but I can't get used to him somehow, it always
feels like work. I'm doing a fair share of corpse-runs with him, more
than with any other char so far.
Dirk >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Mar 20, 2007 Posts: 143
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <6e3k1dF55de7U1.DeleteThis@mid.individual.net>, newspost.DeleteThis@cubeworld.net
says...
> steve.kaye wrote:
> > I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
> > two. Warriors and Shamans.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > The Shaman is an odd thing. I have no idea why I can't play one
> > effectively. I started and deleted a number of Shamans before I even
> > got one to level 10!
> >
> > My current attempt is at level 23 but I'm not enjoying him at all. I
> > have him specced enhancement and I have a good blue 2h axe and he just
> > seems to be too fragile. Also, there's not much to do that I can
> > see. I generally cast my totems, open with lightning and cast
> > lightning shield on incoming and then fire shock when in range. Now
> > what? There just seems to be auto-attack from then on with shocks
> > when I get the 60% cheaper buff from a crit. If I get an add then
> > that's usually all my mana gone and if I didn't start with full health
> > and mana it will often mean that I'll have to run off or die.
> >
> > I normally only start off with strength of earth totem and cast
> > healing stream and searing totem if I need to. Even one on one it's
> > much more effort than any other character that I've played. I'm
> > currently questing in the charred vale which is a bugger for adds and
> > so is making the problem even worse than it has been.
> >
> > The mobs that I'm fighting in the vale are 2 or 3 levels above me but
> > I'm sure that I've just followed the quests the same way as I always
> > do and I'm sure that I've done this zone with other characters at this
> > level.
>
> Glad I'm not the only one who has that problem. Mine is level 27
> currently and I went Elemental with him. Thought that was my problem but
> it seems the same for you with a enhancement build.
>
> I have to sit down and drink all the time, mana is an issue for sure and
> the auto-attack alone is too weak. I can take down two or three mobs and
> then I have to drink. He's not particular weak, I can manage orange mobs
> with him fairly well but I can't get used to him somehow, it always
> feels like work. I'm doing a fair share of corpse-runs with him, more
> than with any other char so far.
>
> Dirk
>
Shaman are very mana inefficient!
Not sure about elemental, but the traditional levelling build is
enhancement, which is all about burst damage and windflurry, what level
do you get the windflurry buff for your weapons? After that it become a
lot easier.
The other thing you need is 15 points in restoration to get the
uninterruptable heals.
I love my shaman at higher levels, but I remember it being a chore at
times, luckily it was my first character so I didn't know any different
I agree about the totems, I hardly use them, WotLK is supposed to be
consolidating them a bit, so hopefully that will help.
T. >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 4805
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:38:05 +0200, Dirk <newspost.DeleteThis@cubeworld.net> wrote:
>steve.kaye wrote:
>> My current attempt is at level 23 but I'm not enjoying him at all. I
>> have him specced enhancement and I have a good blue 2h axe and he just
>> seems to be too fragile. Also, there's not much to do that I can
>> see. I generally cast my totems, open with lightning and cast
>> lightning shield on incoming and then fire shock when in range. Now
>> what? There just seems to be auto-attack from then on with shocks
>> when I get the 60% cheaper buff from a crit. If I get an add then
>> that's usually all my mana gone and if I didn't start with full health
>> and mana it will often mean that I'll have to run off or die.
>>
>> I normally only start off with strength of earth totem and cast
>> healing stream and searing totem if I need to. Even one on one it's
>> much more effort than any other character that I've played. I'm
>> currently questing in the charred vale which is a bugger for adds and
>> so is making the problem even worse than it has been.
>>
>> The mobs that I'm fighting in the vale are 2 or 3 levels above me but
>> I'm sure that I've just followed the quests the same way as I always
>> do and I'm sure that I've done this zone with other characters at this
>> level.
>
>Glad I'm not the only one who has that problem. Mine is level 27
>currently and I went Elemental with him. Thought that was my problem but
>it seems the same for you with a enhancement build.
>
>I have to sit down and drink all the time, mana is an issue for sure and
>the auto-attack alone is too weak. I can take down two or three mobs and
>then I have to drink. He's not particular weak, I can manage orange mobs
>with him fairly well but I can't get used to him somehow, it always
>feels like work. I'm doing a fair share of corpse-runs with him, more
>than with any other char so far.
I think the problem with shamans is the good abilities and talents
aren't at early levels - for enhancement windfury is apparently the
thing that makes it great and you don't get that until lvl 30. for
elemental, the various on-crit talents are great (clearcasting suddenly
reduces your mana issues, the talent for 200% crit dmg instead of 150%
increases your damage done a lot etc) but again, those are fairly deep
in the tree. I personally really enjoyed my elemental shaman when I
finally tried it seriously, but I did have to be careful with my gearing
up, sacrificing a lot of armour to get more spelldamage by wearing cloth
(since there's around zero good items for elemental shamans in the low
levels, you just have to take mage gear and put up with it) - with
decent damage gear it got fun but without that I can see it being hard.
As for adds, stoneclaw totem is your friend if you have it, either buys
you time to run away, or to kill the first mob, whichever you prefer.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Buinne (66 Troll Shaman)
Tairbh (62 Tauren Druid)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin) >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 4805
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:09:20 +0100, Trooper
<removethis.DeleteThis@trooperlooper.co.uk> wrote:
>Shaman are very mana inefficient!
Yep, as elemental I always use mana stream totem, since getting water
shield it helped a bit and clearcasting helps but i still have to stop
and drink more than I like - I got too used to my holy priest that never
has to drink solo and my warlock that regens via lifetap or dark pact!
>Not sure about elemental, but the traditional levelling build is
>enhancement, which is all about burst damage and windflurry, what level
>do you get the windflurry buff for your weapons? After that it become a
>lot easier.
>
>The other thing you need is 15 points in restoration to get the
>uninterruptable heals.
Lol there's an interesting one; I never had that while levelling! Got 4
points in it now at lvl 66, and not going to put the 5th one in as I
want to max out the crit chance on lightning spells that comes above it
in the tree - I always found lesser healing wave cast fast enough that
it didn't really matter much
>I love my shaman at higher levels, but I remember it being a chore at
>times, luckily it was my first character so I didn't know any different
>
>
>I agree about the totems, I hardly use them, WotLK is supposed to be
>consolidating them a bit, so hopefully that will help.
Yeah, if they didn't take a global cooldown it'd help, and if they
lasted a bit longer too (stoneclaw can't be cast before a pull cause
it's gone by the time the mobs reach you), but as it is, planting 4
totems takes 6 seconds up, for all of 2-3 mobs in reach even after I put
the talent point in exntending the range... just a waste of time/mana.
Since I got wrath of air I use that all the time along with mana stream,
before that I only usually bothered with mana stream unless it was going
to be a hard pull.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Buinne (66 Troll Shaman)
Tairbh (62 Tauren Druid)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin) >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 4805
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:16:17 -0700 (PDT), "steve.kaye"
<nospam.DeleteThis@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>On 15 Jul, 15:12, Dirk <newsp....DeleteThis@cubeworld.net> wrote:
>> steve.kaye wrote:
>> > On 15 Jul, 14:30, Brent Stroh <bmst....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> "steve.kaye" <nos....DeleteThis@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>> I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
>> >>> two. Warriors and Shamans.
>> >> That's not a good sign - the 3 classes I haven't started yet are warrior,
>> >> paladin, and shaman. Sounds like round 3 will be a bit painful.
>>
>> > The Paladin class was the next hardest for me to get started. I
>> > made several attempts that stopped at about level 15. It took playing
>> > as part of a constant group to get me past that level. I've now got
>> > him to level 66.
>>
>> I rolled two Paladins and couldn't get them above level 10, even deleted
>> the chars. I waited one year and finally rolled one again ... turned out
>> to be my favorite char and is now level 70.
>>
>> I hated my priest, leveled full shadow up to 30 and quit. Reactivated
>> him recently, respecced to Discipline and love it. Might even take him
>> to 70 once but it's not a high priority currently.
>>
>> Sometimes you just have to find a style you are comfortable with.
>
>Yeah, maybe I should ignore the best levelling spec info and go
>elemental with my Shammy.
Worth a try, I enjoy elemental loads anyway, suited me great once i got
the hang of it. Same with levelling my priests as disc/holy when
everyone says level as shadow - shadow bores me to death, holy is fun to
me, so not everyone suits the best levelling spec guidelines
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Buinne (66 Troll Shaman)
Tairbh (62 Tauren Druid)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin) >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Nov 13, 2007 Posts: 85
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:12 pm
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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steve.kaye wrote:
> On 15 Jul, 14:30, Brent Stroh <bmst....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "steve.kaye" <nos....TakeThisOut@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I've played all classes in WoW and I've enjoyed them all except for
>>> two. Warriors and Shamans.
>> That's not a good sign - the 3 classes I haven't started yet are warrior,
>> paladin, and shaman. Sounds like round 3 will be a bit painful.
>
> The Paladin class was the next hardest for me to get started. I
> made several attempts that stopped at about level 15. It took playing
> as part of a constant group to get me past that level. I've now got
> him to level 66.
I rolled two Paladins and couldn't get them above level 10, even deleted
the chars. I waited one year and finally rolled one again ... turned out
to be my favorite char and is now level 70.
I hated my priest, leveled full shadow up to 30 and quit. Reactivated
him recently, respecced to Discipline and love it. Might even take him
to 70 once but it's not a high priority currently.
Sometimes you just have to find a style you are comfortable with. >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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Since: Jan 08, 2008 Posts: 150
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 15, 1:07 pm, "steve.kaye" <nos....RemoveThis@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
> The Shaman is an odd thing. I have no idea why I can't play one
> effectively. I started and deleted a number of Shamans before I even
> got one to level 10!
>
> My current attempt is at level 23 but I'm not enjoying him at all. I
> have him specced enhancement and I have a good blue 2h axe and he just
> seems to be too fragile. Also, there's not much to do that I can
> see. I generally cast my totems, open with lightning and cast
> lightning shield on incoming and then fire shock when in range. Now
> what? There just seems to be auto-attack from then on with shocks
> when I get the 60% cheaper buff from a crit. If I get an add then
> that's usually all my mana gone and if I didn't start with full health
> and mana it will often mean that I'll have to run off or die.
I have a 61 enhance shammy... can't remember exactly what it was like
at L23, but I think it was always pretty straightforward. At later
levels dual wielding is best, but it shouldn;t make that much
difference. Remember to buff your weapon with Windfury or Rockbiter!
Whack the mobs, indeed, but don't worry too much about fast killing
*until* you get adds. If you do, cast Stoneclaw totem and use
everything you have to kill the first mob fast! If there are no adds,
just relax and kill away. Yes, auto-attack is the plan... you can bash
away on the mob while deciding what to do...
As a shaman you have a lot of options, including healing yourself
during the fight. Enhancement shamans should treat mana as a limited
resource, and always keep enough for the stuff they need to do.
- Gerry Quinn >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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srider Br. Dragonflight P
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Since: Jan 16, 2008 Posts: 24
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:09 am
Post subject: Re: It's too hard to be a Shammy [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ye, shammys are a tough one. tried twice (learned everything I could
with them) but decided to give up. So made a decision not to try and
roll a shammy again...
As for warriors, they're not too bad. As long as we access certain
situations while lvling perhaps they would be pretty fun (I love
charging  ). Mine's at lvl 23 because i've been raiding at a daily
basis but I will certainly give him a go now at my spare time.
For shammys, no thanks...but i love grping with them  so dont give
ur hopes up >> Stay informed about: It's too hard to be a Shammy |
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