So when do you guys play DS, anyway?

On 2005-04-14, The Triad <wanderer.DeleteThis@beeb.web> wrote:
> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnd5qcs5.6c2.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf21.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>> On 2005-04-13, The Triad <wanderer.DeleteThis@beeb.web> wrote:
>>> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnd4klno.ep.the_emmel*whatever*@btcips73x6.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. So you are drowing goshhawks in your freetime?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We used to. Now, we have less free time--or maybe just more things
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why don't I quite believe that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not certain. Note the second possibility as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> have/choose to do in it. We definitely used to, though.
>>>>>>>>> *remembers
>>>>>>>>> fondly*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...and yes, we saved beforehand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You did? Half hearted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it half-hearted for a scientist to cover his eyes with reinforced
>>>>>>> glass
>>>>>>> before releasing alien creatures into his world to begin slaughtering
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>> compatri--er, sorry, wrong computer game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, just plain stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh. So should he leave his eyes /uncovered/ when releasing alien
>>>>> creatures
>>>>> into his world to begin slaughtering his coworkers?
>>>>
>>>> Glasses doesn't help much in that case... should have used full body
>>>> armour instead.
>>>
>>> Isn't that what the hazard suit's for?
>>
>> Mu-lam'bda heavy armour provides a completely seperated environment -
>> better than any hazard suit you might have in mind.
>
> Well, he didn't have Mu-lam'bda heavy armour, did he?

Sorry, I can't stop thinking in terms of
heavy-armour-should-be-closed-environment.
::shrugs::

>>>>>>> Is it half-hearted to take basic protective measures against
>>>>>>> unpredictable
>>>>>>> results/occurrences?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nothing in creatures is really unpredictable. Most things are pretty
>>>>>> easy to fix.
>>>>>
>>>>> Key word: 'most'. If you accidentally do something that you can't
>>>>> undo...
>>>>>
>>>>> And that reminds me/us. Ever gone quickly and looked through the C3
>>>>> ship
>>>>> almost as soon as the game was started? There are a number of
>>>>> things--insects like stag beetles in the Grendel Terrarium come to
>>>>> mind--that go extinct rather quickly, and can't be replaced.
>>>>
>>>> ::nods::
>>>> Can easily be restarted, though.
>>>
>>> True. But what's the point, if one can't sustain them?
>>
>> It wasn't planned like that. They more or less messed the balance of
>> environments up - the gnarlers will vanish as well, when you don't make
>> the vulcano blow up more often.
>
> Pity. *sadness*
>
> Ah, yes--on the gnarlers, we just hooked on of those tall, pulsing things up
> to the volcano. And for some reason, even after all the gnarlers die, they
> always come back.

Eggs.

>>>>> Also, has anyone ever tried creating a photosynthetic Norn, breathing
>>>>> in
>>>>> carbon dioxide and breathing out oxygen? (And when/if carbon dioxide
>>>>> is
>>>>> breathed out normally, does it just disappear, or does it actually [at
>>>>> least] increase the amount of carbon dioxide in the air? And the
>>>>> reverse
>>>>> for plants? (Which would be /very/ interesting if all the plants were
>>>>> to
>>>>> suddenly die... heh heh heh. *grins evilly*)
>>>>
>>>> I don't know.
>>>
>>> Hrmm. *wonders*
>>>
>>>>> ...now, if one could get a balance... a /self-adjusting/ balance
>>>>> between
>>>>> the two different kinds of Norns... it would have to scale, of course.
>>>>> It
>>>>> would depend on how much oxygen (for example) one breathed in how much
>>>>> energy (glucose? Or is it the breaking down of food into glucose) one
>>>>> got
>>>>> from each breath... would the photosynthesising Norns even need food,
>>>>> though? *ponders* Hmm. In any case, a similar thingamajig would
>>>>> apply.
>>>>
>>>> Norns probably not...
>>>
>>> *ponders!*
>>
>> I only say 'Highlander'.
>
> Hrm. *thinks*
>
> ...huh. What about the Life chemical?

What?

>>>>> ...light... heh. They would certainly try to stay in bright areas,
>>>>> assuming that some areas are implemented to be brighter than
>>>>> others--which,
>>>>> at least in C3, we think they indeed were.
>>>>
>>>> You can turn he lights down.
>>>
>>> Ahh.
>>
>> Environment controls in the Norn, Desert, Aquarium and Jungle
>> Terrariums.
>
> *nods* Yes, we remember--those flaps, with the adjustable controls.

Yup.
--
emmel <the_emmel*you-know-what-that's-for*@gmx.net>
(Don't forget to remove the ** bit)

Official AGC feedback maniac

"God is playing creatures - and we're the norns."

"A hundred dead are a tragedy - a hundred thousand are statistics."

"I guess you can call yourself lucky." -
"I could, but Linda suits me a little better...
Things called lucky tend to get hit by trucks."

Hi, I'm a .sig virus. Just copy me to your .signature. And don't worry.
 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

"emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:slrnd5vb79.bcb.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf16.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
> On 2005-04-14, The Triad <wanderer RemoveThis @beeb.web> wrote:
>> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>> news:slrnd5qcs5.6c2.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf21.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>> On 2005-04-13, The Triad <wanderer RemoveThis @beeb.web> wrote:
>>>> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:slrnd4klno.ep.the_emmel*whatever*@btcips73x6.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. So you are drowing goshhawks in your freetime?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We used to. Now, we have less free time--or maybe just more
>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why don't I quite believe that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not certain. Note the second possibility as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> have/choose to do in it. We definitely used to, though.
>>>>>>>>>> *remembers
>>>>>>>>>> fondly*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...and yes, we saved beforehand.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You did? Half hearted.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it half-hearted for a scientist to cover his eyes with
>>>>>>>> reinforced
>>>>>>>> glass
>>>>>>>> before releasing alien creatures into his world to begin
>>>>>>>> slaughtering
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> compatri--er, sorry, wrong computer game.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, just plain stupid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh. So should he leave his eyes /uncovered/ when releasing alien
>>>>>> creatures
>>>>>> into his world to begin slaughtering his coworkers?
>>>>>
>>>>> Glasses doesn't help much in that case... should have used full body
>>>>> armour instead.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't that what the hazard suit's for?
>>>
>>> Mu-lam'bda heavy armour provides a completely seperated environment -
>>> better than any hazard suit you might have in mind.
>>
>> Well, he didn't have Mu-lam'bda heavy armour, did he?
>
> Sorry, I can't stop thinking in terms of
> heavy-armour-should-be-closed-environment.
> ::shrugs::

Hm.

>>>>>>>> Is it half-hearted to take basic protective measures against
>>>>>>>> unpredictable
>>>>>>>> results/occurrences?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nothing in creatures is really unpredictable. Most things are pretty
>>>>>>> easy to fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Key word: 'most'. If you accidentally do something that you can't
>>>>>> undo...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And that reminds me/us. Ever gone quickly and looked through the C3
>>>>>> ship
>>>>>> almost as soon as the game was started? There are a number of
>>>>>> things--insects like stag beetles in the Grendel Terrarium come to
>>>>>> mind--that go extinct rather quickly, and can't be replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> ::nods::
>>>>> Can easily be restarted, though.
>>>>
>>>> True. But what's the point, if one can't sustain them?
>>>
>>> It wasn't planned like that. They more or less messed the balance of
>>> environments up - the gnarlers will vanish as well, when you don't make
>>> the vulcano blow up more often.
>>
>> Pity. *sadness*
>>
>> Ah, yes--on the gnarlers, we just hooked on of those tall, pulsing things
>> up
>> to the volcano. And for some reason, even after all the gnarlers die,
>> they
>> always come back.
>
> Eggs.

Huh. You're sure? What about after all the eggs have hatched (or been
eaten by those green things that we've forgotten the name of)?

>>>>>> Also, has anyone ever tried creating a photosynthetic Norn, breathing
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> carbon dioxide and breathing out oxygen? (And when/if carbon dioxide
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> breathed out normally, does it just disappear, or does it actually
>>>>>> [at
>>>>>> least] increase the amount of carbon dioxide in the air? And the
>>>>>> reverse
>>>>>> for plants? (Which would be /very/ interesting if all the plants
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> suddenly die... heh heh heh. *grins evilly*)
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know.
>>>>
>>>> Hrmm. *wonders*
>>>>
>>>>>> ...now, if one could get a balance... a /self-adjusting/ balance
>>>>>> between
>>>>>> the two different kinds of Norns... it would have to scale, of
>>>>>> course.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> would depend on how much oxygen (for example) one breathed in how
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> energy (glucose? Or is it the breaking down of food into glucose)
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> from each breath... would the photosynthesising Norns even need
>>>>>> food,
>>>>>> though? *ponders* Hmm. In any case, a similar thingamajig would
>>>>>> apply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Norns probably not...
>>>>
>>>> *ponders!*
>>>
>>> I only say 'Highlander'.
>>
>> Hrm. *thinks*
>>
>> ...huh. What about the Life chemical?
>
> What?

What happens when it runs out?

>>>>>> ...light... heh. They would certainly try to stay in bright areas,
>>>>>> assuming that some areas are implemented to be brighter than
>>>>>> others--which,
>>>>>> at least in C3, we think they indeed were.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can turn he lights down.
>>>>
>>>> Ahh.
>>>
>>> Environment controls in the Norn, Desert, Aquarium and Jungle
>>> Terrariums.
>>
>> *nods* Yes, we remember--those flaps, with the adjustable controls.
>
> Yup.

*smiles*

....ah, the living skah we could have created if they had involved
/everything/ ship-influenced about the environment...

Think of it! Think of if the atmosphere was truly realistic, implemented
fully, and one could twist it wholly to one's will!

....if one could kill off all the plants, tell the seed-thingamajigs not to
produce any more automatically, fill the Terrariums with vacuum or carbon
dioxide... or, heh, just remove all the grazers and Norns and fill them
with pure, unadulterated oxygen...

....oo. Solution! Carbon monoxide! Neither plants /nor/ Creatures able to
survive... 'dead zones', not even mattering that the seeders would keep
spitting out seeds, because no plants could live... all Norns fearing,
staying far, farrr away... or perishing... the /only/ habitable zones
being those that the Hand decreed--or decided, rather, not bothering with a
decree--/would/ be...

*cackles manically; longs for that kind of power*

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

On 2005-04-15, The Triad <wanderer RemoveThis @beeb.web> wrote:
> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnd5vb79.bcb.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf16.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>>>>>>>> Is it half-hearted to take basic protective measures against
>>>>>>>>> unpredictable
>>>>>>>>> results/occurrences?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nothing in creatures is really unpredictable. Most things are pretty
>>>>>>>> easy to fix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Key word: 'most'. If you accidentally do something that you can't
>>>>>>> undo...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And that reminds me/us. Ever gone quickly and looked through the C3
>>>>>>> ship
>>>>>>> almost as soon as the game was started? There are a number of
>>>>>>> things--insects like stag beetles in the Grendel Terrarium come to
>>>>>>> mind--that go extinct rather quickly, and can't be replaced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ::nods::
>>>>>> Can easily be restarted, though.
>>>>>
>>>>> True. But what's the point, if one can't sustain them?
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't planned like that. They more or less messed the balance of
>>>> environments up - the gnarlers will vanish as well, when you don't make
>>>> the vulcano blow up more often.
>>>
>>> Pity. *sadness*
>>>
>>> Ah, yes--on the gnarlers, we just hooked on of those tall, pulsing things
>>> up
>>> to the volcano. And for some reason, even after all the gnarlers die,
>>> they
>>> always come back.
>>
>> Eggs.
>
> Huh. You're sure? What about after all the eggs have hatched (or been
> eaten by those green things that we've forgotten the name of)?

Then they don't come back, I think.

>>>>>>> Also, has anyone ever tried creating a photosynthetic Norn, breathing
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> carbon dioxide and breathing out oxygen? (And when/if carbon dioxide
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> breathed out normally, does it just disappear, or does it actually
>>>>>>> [at
>>>>>>> least] increase the amount of carbon dioxide in the air? And the
>>>>>>> reverse
>>>>>>> for plants? (Which would be /very/ interesting if all the plants
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> suddenly die... heh heh heh. *grins evilly*)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hrmm. *wonders*
>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...now, if one could get a balance... a /self-adjusting/ balance
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> the two different kinds of Norns... it would have to scale, of
>>>>>>> course.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> would depend on how much oxygen (for example) one breathed in how
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> energy (glucose? Or is it the breaking down of food into glucose)
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> from each breath... would the photosynthesising Norns even need
>>>>>>> food,
>>>>>>> though? *ponders* Hmm. In any case, a similar thingamajig would
>>>>>>> apply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Norns probably not...
>>>>>
>>>>> *ponders!*
>>>>
>>>> I only say 'Highlander'.
>>>
>>> Hrm. *thinks*
>>>
>>> ...huh. What about the Life chemical?
>>
>> What?
>
> What happens when it runs out?

Doesn't in Highladers. That's the whole point. They are the living dead.

>>>>>>> ...light... heh. They would certainly try to stay in bright areas,
>>>>>>> assuming that some areas are implemented to be brighter than
>>>>>>> others--which,
>>>>>>> at least in C3, we think they indeed were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can turn he lights down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ahh.
>>>>
>>>> Environment controls in the Norn, Desert, Aquarium and Jungle
>>>> Terrariums.
>>>
>>> *nods* Yes, we remember--those flaps, with the adjustable controls.
>>
>> Yup.
>
> *smiles*
>
> ...ah, the living skah we could have created if they had involved
> /everything/ ship-influenced about the environment...
>
> Think of it! Think of if the atmosphere was truly realistic, implemented
> fully, and one could twist it wholly to one's will!

You don't need, that the Earth Simulator doesn't even manage to do that
in dept, do you?

> ...if one could kill off all the plants, tell the seed-thingamajigs not to
> produce any more automatically,

Oh, that's easy.

> fill the Terrariums with vacuum or carbon
> dioxide... or, heh, just remove all the grazers and Norns and fill them
> with pure, unadulterated oxygen...
>
> ...oo. Solution! Carbon monoxide! Neither plants /nor/ Creatures able to
> survive... 'dead zones', not even mattering that the seeders would keep
> spitting out seeds, because no plants could live... all Norns fearing,
> staying far, farrr away... or perishing... the /only/ habitable zones
> being those that the Hand decreed--or decided, rather, not bothering with a
> decree--/would/ be...
>
> *cackles manically; longs for that kind of power*

enum 3 0 0 kill targ next enum 4 0 0 kill targ next
--
emmel <the_emmel*you-know-what-that's-for*@gmx.net>
(Don't forget to remove the ** bit)

Official AGC feedback maniac

"God is playing creatures - and we're the norns."

"A hundred dead are a tragedy - a hundred thousand are statistics."

"I guess you can call yourself lucky." -
"I could, but Linda suits me a little better...
Things called lucky tend to get hit by trucks."

Hi, I'm a .sig virus. Just copy me to your .signature. And don't worry.
 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

"emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:slrnd6776p.78g.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf21.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
> On 2005-04-15, The Triad <wanderer.DeleteThis@beeb.web> wrote:
>> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>> news:slrnd5vb79.bcb.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf16.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>>>>>>>>> Is it half-hearted to take basic protective measures against
>>>>>>>>>> unpredictable
>>>>>>>>>> results/occurrences?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nothing in creatures is really unpredictable. Most things are
>>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>>> easy to fix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Key word: 'most'. If you accidentally do something that you can't
>>>>>>>> undo...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And that reminds me/us. Ever gone quickly and looked through the
>>>>>>>> C3
>>>>>>>> ship
>>>>>>>> almost as soon as the game was started? There are a number of
>>>>>>>> things--insects like stag beetles in the Grendel Terrarium come to
>>>>>>>> mind--that go extinct rather quickly, and can't be replaced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ::nods::
>>>>>>> Can easily be restarted, though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True. But what's the point, if one can't sustain them?
>>>>>
>>>>> It wasn't planned like that. They more or less messed the balance of
>>>>> environments up - the gnarlers will vanish as well, when you don't
>>>>> make
>>>>> the vulcano blow up more often.
>>>>
>>>> Pity. *sadness*
>>>>
>>>> Ah, yes--on the gnarlers, we just hooked on of those tall, pulsing
>>>> things
>>>> up
>>>> to the volcano. And for some reason, even after all the gnarlers die,
>>>> they
>>>> always come back.
>>>
>>> Eggs.
>>
>> Huh. You're sure? What about after all the eggs have hatched (or been
>> eaten by those green things that we've forgotten the name of)?
>
> Then they don't come back, I think.

Strangely enough, eventually, (as far as I can remember) they do. And
that's the odd thing.

>>>>>>>> Also, has anyone ever tried creating a photosynthetic Norn,
>>>>>>>> breathing
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> carbon dioxide and breathing out oxygen? (And when/if carbon
>>>>>>>> dioxide
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> breathed out normally, does it just disappear, or does it actually
>>>>>>>> [at
>>>>>>>> least] increase the amount of carbon dioxide in the air? And the
>>>>>>>> reverse
>>>>>>>> for plants? (Which would be /very/ interesting if all the plants
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> suddenly die... heh heh heh. *grins evilly*)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hrmm. *wonders*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...now, if one could get a balance... a /self-adjusting/ balance
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> the two different kinds of Norns... it would have to scale, of
>>>>>>>> course.
>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>> would depend on how much oxygen (for example) one breathed in how
>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>> energy (glucose? Or is it the breaking down of food into glucose)
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>> from each breath... would the photosynthesising Norns even need
>>>>>>>> food,
>>>>>>>> though? *ponders* Hmm. In any case, a similar thingamajig would
>>>>>>>> apply.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Norns probably not...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ponders!*
>>>>>
>>>>> I only say 'Highlander'.
>>>>
>>>> Hrm. *thinks*
>>>>
>>>> ...huh. What about the Life chemical?
>>>
>>> What?
>>
>> What happens when it runs out?
>
> Doesn't in Highladers. That's the whole point. They are the living dead.

Oh. In that case, how are Highlanders relevant?

>>>>>>>> ...light... heh. They would certainly try to stay in bright
>>>>>>>> areas,
>>>>>>>> assuming that some areas are implemented to be brighter than
>>>>>>>> others--which,
>>>>>>>> at least in C3, we think they indeed were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can turn he lights down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ahh.
>>>>>
>>>>> Environment controls in the Norn, Desert, Aquarium and Jungle
>>>>> Terrariums.
>>>>
>>>> *nods* Yes, we remember--those flaps, with the adjustable controls.
>>>
>>> Yup.
>>
>> *smiles*
>>
>> ...ah, the living skah we could have created if they had involved
>> /everything/ ship-influenced about the environment...
>>
>> Think of it! Think of if the atmosphere was truly realistic, implemented
>> fully, and one could twist it wholly to one's will!
>
> You don't need,

What?

> that the Earth Simulator doesn't even manage to do that
> in dept, do you?

We're not talking about handling it in depth... just handling the general
concentrations of various gasses, as well as perhaps the pressure exerted by
the air (or lack thereof).

>> ...if one could kill off all the plants, tell the seed-thingamajigs not
>> to
>> produce any more automatically,
>
> Oh, that's easy.

With or without involving third-party Agents and/or CAOS?

>> fill the Terrariums with vacuum or carbon
>> dioxide... or, heh, just remove all the grazers and Norns and fill them
>> with pure, unadulterated oxygen...
>>
>> ...oo. Solution! Carbon monoxide! Neither plants /nor/ Creatures able
>> to
>> survive... 'dead zones', not even mattering that the seeders would keep
>> spitting out seeds, because no plants could live... all Norns fearing,
>> staying far, farrr away... or perishing... the /only/ habitable zones
>> being those that the Hand decreed--or decided, rather, not bothering with
>> a
>> decree--/would/ be...
>>
>> *cackles manically; longs for that kind of power*
>
> enum 3 0 0 kill targ next enum 4 0 0 kill targ next

Meaning? (And if that means what we think it means, it somewhat defeats the
point.)

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

On 2005-04-18, The Triad <wanderer RemoveThis @beeb.web> wrote:
> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnd6776p.78g.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf21.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>> On 2005-04-15, The Triad <wanderer RemoveThis @beeb.web> wrote:
>>> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>> news:slrnd5vb79.bcb.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf16.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it half-hearted to take basic protective measures against
>>>>>>>>>>> unpredictable
>>>>>>>>>>> results/occurrences?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nothing in creatures is really unpredictable. Most things are
>>>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>>>> easy to fix.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Key word: 'most'. If you accidentally do something that you can't
>>>>>>>>> undo...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And that reminds me/us. Ever gone quickly and looked through the
>>>>>>>>> C3
>>>>>>>>> ship
>>>>>>>>> almost as soon as the game was started? There are a number of
>>>>>>>>> things--insects like stag beetles in the Grendel Terrarium come to
>>>>>>>>> mind--that go extinct rather quickly, and can't be replaced.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ::nods::
>>>>>>>> Can easily be restarted, though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True. But what's the point, if one can't sustain them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It wasn't planned like that. They more or less messed the balance of
>>>>>> environments up - the gnarlers will vanish as well, when you don't
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> the vulcano blow up more often.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pity. *sadness*
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, yes--on the gnarlers, we just hooked on of those tall, pulsing
>>>>> things
>>>>> up
>>>>> to the volcano. And for some reason, even after all the gnarlers die,
>>>>> they
>>>>> always come back.
>>>>
>>>> Eggs.
>>>
>>> Huh. You're sure? What about after all the eggs have hatched (or been
>>> eaten by those green things that we've forgotten the name of)?
>>
>> Then they don't come back, I think.
>
> Strangely enough, eventually, (as far as I can remember) they do. And
> that's the odd thing.

Have a look at the scripts. If there is anything getting them back it
should be found in there.

>>>>>>>>> Also, has anyone ever tried creating a photosynthetic Norn,
>>>>>>>>> breathing
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> carbon dioxide and breathing out oxygen? (And when/if carbon
>>>>>>>>> dioxide
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> breathed out normally, does it just disappear, or does it actually
>>>>>>>>> [at
>>>>>>>>> least] increase the amount of carbon dioxide in the air? And the
>>>>>>>>> reverse
>>>>>>>>> for plants? (Which would be /very/ interesting if all the plants
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> suddenly die... heh heh heh. *grins evilly*)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hrmm. *wonders*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...now, if one could get a balance... a /self-adjusting/ balance
>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>> the two different kinds of Norns... it would have to scale, of
>>>>>>>>> course.
>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>> would depend on how much oxygen (for example) one breathed in how
>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>> energy (glucose? Or is it the breaking down of food into glucose)
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>> from each breath... would the photosynthesising Norns even need
>>>>>>>>> food,
>>>>>>>>> though? *ponders* Hmm. In any case, a similar thingamajig would
>>>>>>>>> apply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Norns probably not...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *ponders!*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I only say 'Highlander'.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hrm. *thinks*
>>>>>
>>>>> ...huh. What about the Life chemical?
>>>>
>>>> What?
>>>
>>> What happens when it runs out?
>>
>> Doesn't in Highladers. That's the whole point. They are the living dead.
>
> Oh. In that case, how are Highlanders relevant?

They don't require food or anything else. Norns can work completely
against any law of energy conservation as long as they have the right
genes.

>>>>>>>>> ...light... heh. They would certainly try to stay in bright
>>>>>>>>> areas,
>>>>>>>>> assuming that some areas are implemented to be brighter than
>>>>>>>>> others--which,
>>>>>>>>> at least in C3, we think they indeed were.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can turn he lights down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ahh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Environment controls in the Norn, Desert, Aquarium and Jungle
>>>>>> Terrariums.
>>>>>
>>>>> *nods* Yes, we remember--those flaps, with the adjustable controls.
>>>>
>>>> Yup.
>>>
>>> *smiles*
>>>
>>> ...ah, the living skah we could have created if they had involved
>>> /everything/ ship-influenced about the environment...
>>>
>>> Think of it! Think of if the atmosphere was truly realistic, implemented
>>> fully, and one could twist it wholly to one's will!
>>
>> You don't need,
>
> What?

Beats me.

>> that the Earth Simulator doesn't even manage to do that
>> in dept, do you?
>
> We're not talking about handling it in depth... just handling the general
> concentrations of various gasses, as well as perhaps the pressure exerted by
> the air (or lack thereof).

Still. The computing power needed would be enourmous.

>>> ...if one could kill off all the plants, tell the seed-thingamajigs not
>>> to
>>> produce any more automatically,
>>
>> Oh, that's easy.
>
> With or without involving third-party Agents and/or CAOS?

Without CAOS... probably not.

>>> fill the Terrariums with vacuum or carbon
>>> dioxide... or, heh, just remove all the grazers and Norns and fill them
>>> with pure, unadulterated oxygen...
>>>
>>> ...oo. Solution! Carbon monoxide! Neither plants /nor/ Creatures able
>>> to
>>> survive... 'dead zones', not even mattering that the seeders would keep
>>> spitting out seeds, because no plants could live... all Norns fearing,
>>> staying far, farrr away... or perishing... the /only/ habitable zones
>>> being those that the Hand decreed--or decided, rather, not bothering with
>>> a
>>> decree--/would/ be...
>>>
>>> *cackles manically; longs for that kind of power*
>>
>> enum 3 0 0 kill targ next enum 4 0 0 kill targ next
>
> Meaning? (And if that means what we think it means, it somewhat defeats the
> point.)

Well, that *should* get rid of any plants and animals (and creatures)...
....and some othher things.
--
emmel <the_emmel*you-know-what-that's-for*@gmx.net>
(Don't forget to remove the ** bit)

Official AGC feedback maniac

"God is playing creatures - and we're the norns."

"A hundred dead are a tragedy - a hundred thousand are statistics."

"I guess you can call yourself lucky." -
"I could, but Linda suits me a little better...
Things called lucky tend to get hit by trucks."

Hi, I'm a .sig virus. Just copy me to your .signature. And don't worry.
 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The Triad wrote:
> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnd6a09m.89r.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf22.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>
>>On 2005-04-18, The Triad <wanderer.TakeThisOut@beeb.web> wrote:
>>
>>>"emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>>news:slrnd6776p.78g.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf21.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...

<snip>

>>>>that the Earth Simulator doesn't even manage to do that
>>>>in dept, do you?
>>>
>>>We're not talking about handling it in depth... just handling the general
>>>concentrations of various gasses, as well as perhaps the pressure exerted by
>>>the air (or lack thereof).
>>
>>Still. The computing power needed would be enourmous.
>
>
> Er? Not /that/ much... you could simply have an array of numbers for each
> room, detailing the amount of each gas in it--the 'pressure' could be the
> number resulting from adding all the numbers together, and the ventilation
> system (or whatever you call it) could reclaim gas as well as excrete it
> when altering the balance of gasses--the same percentage of each,
> presumably... or actually, maybe not. No, wait, /yes/. *nods* If it were
> left 'off', then there would only be a problem if you had a feedback loop
> whereby one could start with a certain amount of, say, oxygen, and then via
> some route change that amount of oxygen directly into a greater amount of
> oxygen (thereby violating one of the laws of thermodynamics, which is one of
> the most important things to avoid here...).

You would need a large vector computer for that. They are expensive and
won't run Windoze XP AFAIK..

Thomas
- --
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted" - W.S. Burroughs, Naked Lunch
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 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

"Thomas J. Boschloo" <nospam DeleteThis @hccnet.nl.invalid> wrote in message
news:426a65e9$0$14348$3a628fcd@reader2.nntp.hccnet.nl...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> The Triad wrote:
>> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>> news:slrnd6a09m.89r.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf22.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>
>>>On 2005-04-18, The Triad <wanderer DeleteThis @beeb.web> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:slrnd6776p.78g.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf21.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>>that the Earth Simulator doesn't even manage to do that
>>>>>in dept, do you?
>>>>
>>>>We're not talking about handling it in depth... just handling the
>>>>general
>>>>concentrations of various gasses, as well as perhaps the pressure
>>>>exerted by
>>>>the air (or lack thereof).
>>>
>>>Still. The computing power needed would be enourmous.
>>
>>
>> Er? Not /that/ much... you could simply have an array of numbers for
>> each
>> room, detailing the amount of each gas in it--the 'pressure' could be the
>> number resulting from adding all the numbers together, and the
>> ventilation
>> system (or whatever you call it) could reclaim gas as well as excrete it
>> when altering the balance of gasses--the same percentage of each,
>> presumably... or actually, maybe not. No, wait, /yes/. *nods* If it
>> were
>> left 'off', then there would only be a problem if you had a feedback loop
>> whereby one could start with a certain amount of, say, oxygen, and then
>> via
>> some route change that amount of oxygen directly into a greater amount of
>> oxygen (thereby violating one of the laws of thermodynamics, which is one
>> of
>> the most important things to avoid here...).
>
> You would need a large vector computer for that.

How so?

> They are expensive and
> won't run Windoze XP AFAIK..

--
The Triad
User of 'Thingamajig!'
Refractor Dragon -=(UDIC)=-
 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

On 2005-04-23, Thomas J. Boschloo <nospam.DeleteThis@hccnet.nl.invalid> wrote:
>
> The Triad wrote:
>> "emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>> news:slrnd6a09m.89r.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf22.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>>
>>>On 2005-04-18, The Triad <wanderer.DeleteThis@beeb.web> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"emmel" <the_emmel*whatever*@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:slrnd6776p.78g.the_emmel*whatever*@btcipinf21.cip.uni-bayreuth.de...
>
><snip>
>
>>>>>that the Earth Simulator doesn't even manage to do that
>>>>>in dept, do you?
>>>>
>>>>We're not talking about handling it in depth... just handling the general
>>>>concentrations of various gasses, as well as perhaps the pressure exerted by
>>>>the air (or lack thereof).
>>>
>>>Still. The computing power needed would be enourmous.
>>
>>
>> Er? Not /that/ much... you could simply have an array of numbers for each
>> room, detailing the amount of each gas in it--the 'pressure' could be the
>> number resulting from adding all the numbers together, and the ventilation
>> system (or whatever you call it) could reclaim gas as well as excrete it
>> when altering the balance of gasses--the same percentage of each,
>> presumably... or actually, maybe not. No, wait, /yes/. *nods* If it were
>> left 'off', then there would only be a problem if you had a feedback loop
>> whereby one could start with a certain amount of, say, oxygen, and then via
>> some route change that amount of oxygen directly into a greater amount of
>> oxygen (thereby violating one of the laws of thermodynamics, which is one of
>> the most important things to avoid here...).
>
> You would need a large vector computer for that.

A good cluster should do the job.

> They are expensive and
> won't run Windoze XP AFAIK..

I don't see a problem with *that*.
--
emmel <the_emmel*you-know-what-that's-for*@gmx.net>
(Don't forget to remove the ** bit)

Official AGC feedback maniac

"God is playing creatures - and we're the norns."

"A hundred dead are a tragedy - a hundred thousand are statistics."

"I guess you can call yourself lucky." -
"I could, but Linda suits me a little better...
Things called lucky tend to get hit by trucks."

Hi, I'm a .sig virus. Just copy me to your .signature. And don't worry.
 >> Stay informed about: So when do you guys play DS, anyway? 

<snip>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And for some reason, even after all the gnarlers
>>>>>>>>>>>> die,
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> always come back.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Eggs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Huh. You're sure? What about after all the eggs have hatched
>>>>>>>>>> (or
>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> eaten by those green things that we've forgotten the name of)?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then they don't come back, I think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Strangely enough, eventually, (as far as I can remember) they do.
>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>> that's the odd thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have a look at the scripts. If there is anything getting them back
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> should be found in there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *begin to speak, then stops, several times*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *thinks*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One word: Where?
>>>>>
>>>>> Bootstrap/^H\001\ World
>>>>
>>>> *sees lots of .cos files*
>>>
>>> Well, grep them! Or whatever you use for doing full test searches. In
>>> fact I think it was called Gnarler.cos...
>>
>> 'grep'... that word is only familiar because someone used it in
>> reference
>> to searching through a backpack in a website about deconstructing
>> apparently
>> everything.
>
> Let's just say it's a very helpful little program(sp?!)...

The spelling is correct, if you mean the word that I think you mean.

>> *wonders how exactly one does/would do a full test search*
>
> Erm, *text*, not test. Sorry for me tyoping in such a confusing way.
> Again.

Oh.

Does one open it in notepad?

>>>> Incidentally, what was the purpose of the ^H and the slash between the
>>>> 001
>>>> and the World?
>>>
>>> Well, '^H' - reads CTRL+H - is equivalent to backspace. It's a unix
>>> thing. And you are used to have a backlslash separating directories
>>> while the right way (the unix way) to do it is a slash. You can figure
>>> the rest out on your own.
>>
>> Ah. *nods slightly*
>>
>> Do you generally use [a] unix?
>
> I use Linux. Technically close enough, but *leagally* not Unix.
> Trademarks and stuff.

Ahh. *nods slightly*

>> And can you run Creatures on it?
>
> Of course I can.

....with graphics? [/ignorant]

>><snip>
>>>>> Norns don't have to obey any energy conservation laws. You can't only
>>>>> implement photosynthesis, but even energy from nothing. The model
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> very realistic in that respect.
>>>>
>>>> Erm, yes. But if one /wanted/ to just implement photosynthesis, rather
>>>> than
>>>> coming out with another batch of Highlanders...
>>>
>>> Not much you can do to prevent it, really.
>>
>> Please elaborate.
>
> The genetics allow everything. Get a decent rate of genetic defects and
> sooner or later you end up with a metabolism that *should* be
> impossible. Only it isn't.

Pity. Ah, well. (...have a long-enough wolfing run...)

<snip>
>>>>>> presumably... or actually, maybe not. No, wait, /yes/. *nods* If
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> left 'off', then there would only be a problem if you had a feedback
>>>>>> loop
>>>>>> whereby one could start with a certain amount of, say, oxygen, and
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> via
>>>>>> some route change that amount of oxygen directly into a greater
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> oxygen (thereby violating one of the laws of thermodynamics, which is
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the most important things to avoid here...).
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem: I don't know how to get Norns to do that kind of thing.
>>>>
>>>> Would one want to?
>>>
>>> You seem to.
>>
>> Erm, no. That's the problem that I want to /avoid/. Or are you
>> referring
>> to getting Norns to avoid violating the laws of thermodynamics? In which
>> case, one would probably need a separate system--whereby you /couldn't/
>> get
>> something from nothing--akin to something discussed in the near vicinity
>> of
>> here a shortish while ago.
>
> Here?

Yes. Here. *shifty eyes*

>>>>>> Now, what would be a lot harder would be if one tried to model where
>>>>>> specific concentrations of gasses were /within one room/. It would
>>>>>
>>>>> You'd have to divide it in different cells and implement some way of
>>>>> gas
>>>>> flow... erm, that's already in there. The whole CA system.
>>>>
>>>> Oh. Really?
>>>>
>>>> /Very/ interesting. *smiles*
>>>
>>> Well, it's just smell...
>>
>> So? As long as a bit can be tweaked so that the relevant 'gasses' don't
>> decay on their own...
>
> Hm... tough.

Can it be done? (Or could it, some day... which is /probably/ a 'yes'.)

>> (And where do Norns get oxygen from normally, anyway? Or do their lungs
>> generate it on their own?)
>
> I think there's some CA called air that gets turned into oxygen. But I
> could be wrong.

Hmm. *wonders where air comes from*

Good point--underwater, there's no air/oxygen.

<snip>
>>>>>> The only problem left is with pressure getting too high, then; and
>>>>>> really,
>>>>>> with the 'special' cases dealt with, it's not really critical... and
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> remaining problem is messy enough that it's likely worth postponing
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> later date. So, cancel 'pressure'; just concentrate on amounts of
>>>>>> gas.
>>>>>