I know you guys would hate me for this....

On Sat, 13 May 2006 14:36:38 +0100, Samurai <samurai.TakeThisOut@dev.nul> wrote:

>Quoth erimess:
>>On Fri, 12 May 2006 14:16:42 +0100, Samurai <samurai.TakeThisOut@dev.nul> wrote:
>...
>>>You're seriously anthropomorphising here, Ashi. Cats don't have deep
>>>naval-gazing sessions wondering where their life is going, because
>>>they're not people -- they're cats. Provided they get fed, petted and
>>>somewhere to run around, they're cool.
>>
>>While true, that's oversimplified.
>
>Admittedly, but I didn't want to sit for five minutes writing out what I
>considered might be all the possible variations of feline thought. The
>purpose of the generalisation was to express disagreement with Ashi's
>view through contrast.

Ah.

>
>>Cats can develop very strong bonds with people, and there's much more
>>to it than getting petted.
>
>That's undoubtedly true, or it wouldn't matter to cats by whom they were
>petted -- for some, that clearly is an issue.

Like Hawk's cat, apparently. But yes, they definitely develop
bonds. Some, like my one that died of cancer, had a very strong one.
He was just that kind of cat. The one I still have left is more...
er, needy. I don't think he'd care who had him, as long as he wasn't
mistreated and got some attention. (Actually, he reminds me more of
your first generalization. )

>
>>You're right of course that they're not wondering where their life is
>>going. They are content with their bonds. I had an extremely strong
>>bond with my one cat for 15 years, and no one will ever be able to tell
>>me that cats don't love.
>
>Like many things concerning abstracts, that depends to a large extent on
>one's definition. As love is a notoriously hard thing to pin down, I
>won't disagree.

I guess I mean that term in the same sense I would two people who'd
known each other a really long time, and developed a sort of deep bond
just out of knowing each other, and caring about each other, over a
long period. Like a couple who gets married are usually "in love" --
but over time I think that part can/does disappear and is replaced
with a different kind of connection. I think a cat develops that kind
of connection, though not consciously. The difference is that they
don't usually care who you are.

>
>>They do, and it has meaning for them. In fact, when that cat had cancer
>>and his body was failing, sure, I didn't want to let go... but more than
>>that, I felt that he did not want to let go of me.
>...
>>I think they can be their own form of sad. Not maybe the way we would
>>feel it. But they do have their own form of emotions.
>
>I did say that myself, if you recall.

No, sorry, actually I don't. So I'll take your word for it.

>
>>I see them all the time, and even many times know what they mean.
>
>It's been a while since I've had cats (and I do miss having them around)

Then you need another one.

>so I concede I'm also a little distanced from their to-ings and
>fro-ings. But I'm happy to agree they're not just automata --
>otherwise, what would be the point of having them as pets?

Exactly. Some people hate their independence, which is exactly what I
like. I also don't want a pet rock. Cats are a curious breed. I've
also had them my whole life and know a lot about them. Having had a
sick one (with three different conditions/diseases), I've also done a
lot of research, including medical stuff. And run a group online. I
seriously considered becoming a vet tech when I was younger. (I love
all animals, more than people many times, but cats are what I prefer
sharing my household with. And the occasional rodent type creature,
and I don't mean the stray ones running about. I'd really like to
have a penguin and an orca and a few other things, but that wouldn't
be too practical.)

--

Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa4

Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do.
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On Fri, 12 May 2006 23:47:21 +0100, Samurai <samurai.DeleteThis@dev.nul> wrote:

>
>>> I'm not at all convinced cats do "sad". If you mean he's not as
>>> ebullient as he used to be, that's obviously because he's slowed down as
>>> he's aged.
>>
>>He was in depression. We've always pampered him and kept him away from the
>>world. I think it probably was Georgie (a cat we feed but not ours) who
>>introduced him the idea he was a cat. Ranmao used to chase all the cats
>>away, because he doesn't like any of them, but now he admited he is also
>>one of them.
>
>The only backup you have for that conclusion is your own assumption.
>More likely, he used to chase other cats away because they were on his
>territory, until he got too old to make it worthwhile.

Of *course* it was because they were in his territory. That's what
cats do. He's known darn well his whole life that he's the same
creature as these other cats, which is somewhat the whole point in
chasing them away.

>
>>>>(and they puke furballs, and Ranmao has some asthma-like problem lately).
>>>
>>> Age. Happens to the best of us. Doesn't mean he's miserable the whole
>>> time, though.
>>
>>Wait until you gets old and illness-ridden. I am pretty sure you'd feel
>>miserable too, and feels how lack of humanity it is.
>
>Then again, I know a lot of old people who are still pretty sprightly --
>and have seen elderly cats that are still quite content with their lot.

My cat was quite content with his lot clear up until a couple of weeks
before he died. And my dad was getting up there, and though was not
exactly "sprightly" he still went walking every day and had a desire
to keep on living for some unknown number of years more.

>As I said, I can't help feeling that you're projecting your own concerns
>onto your cat's reactions.

Big surprise.

> If he's in pain, fair enough, he's not going
>to be terribly happy -- but in that case, of course, he should be taken
>to the vet. Otherwise, he's just slowing down.

Unfortunately it's hard to know when they're in pain. They hide it
well. You have to look for other subtle signs. If you know them well
enough, and know their habits, you can tell when something's "off."
Of course, there's a difference between gradually slowing down, which
yes of course they do, and something that has suddenly gone weird.
--

Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa4

Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do.
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
> erimess wrote:
>> thehawk wrote:
>>>Ashikaga wrote:
<snip>
>>>> I agree. I often feel cats have much tougher lives then we do. All they
>>>> do is waiting for death.
>>>
>>>Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>
>>Yes.
>
> That is giving him entirely too much credit.

I wonder what that means.

--
Ashikaga a28
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On 53khz Samurai shrieked:
> Quoth Ashikaga:
>>On 63khz Samurai shrieked:
<snip>
>>OTOH, if I always listen to my parents, then I would be a ruined man.
>>Usually they make decisions based on money rather than what it'll do
>>to my future.
>
> ...
>>That's an Ashi-ism, if you haven't heard me saying it before.
>
> I don't recall it, but then I have a bad memory.

Well..., you have to be an Ashiologist to remember it.

>>What I mean
>>is, the goal is usually unapproachable, but one must strive toward that
>>direction. And since the curve toward the asymptote is always an
>>exponential projectile, the earlier part would always be approaching the
>>goal at a much faster rate, and then the curve would plateau near the end
>>stage. That being said, that's how I see achieving a goal. We would be
>>going nearer the goal but never really approaching it, and at the end
>>stage, the movement is so minute, it's hard to see any result but we know
>>it's the right direction.
>
> Oh, I saw exactly what you were saying, once I'd looked up the term. But
> I think, as I said, that it's quite possible to achieve reasonable
> goals. Your idea could well apply to the sum total of goals one sets
> oneself over the course of one's life, though, I suppose.

I guess you mean a smaller goals vs a grand goal. Yeah, setting a goal
that's more smaller scale would help you feeling you are reaching each
checkpoint. I was referring to a grand goal though.

--
Ashikaga a28
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On 38khz erimess shrieked:
<snip>
> This just goes to prove what I've known for six years. You have no
> true relationship with your cat if you can believe this bullshit.

What do you know about my Ranmao anyways? He is very extraordinary.
Georgie has been with us too, but she is just a cat.

I hand-picked Ranmao. Searched for him several times (since he was quite
rebellous and left home very often when he was still young). Took Ranmao
to see vet several times. Had to change the vet because the one that I
used to bring him to cared about money only, but not him. The vet gave him
too much anasthetics that Ranmao began to act a little retarded. Every
time I brought him to that vet, Ranmao came home as if he went through some
major trauma, and that's when I decided to change the vet. The new vet is
much better and charge less (and don't scold me when I told him I don't
have much money and then only smile when he received the money). I
literally see Ranmao grows from a kitten to a cat.

Please don't try to accuse someone based on limited info. Ranmao and I
have very deep relationship. Would you go tell a feuding couple that they
don't know each other? Maybe they were fighting, but they might still love
each other. It's not your place to stir the fire.

-- Ashikaga a28
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On 24khz Polychromic shrieked:
> Ashikaga wrote:
>>On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>> erimess wrote:
>>>> thehawk wrote:
>>>>>Ashikaga wrote:
<snip>
>>>>>> I agree. I often feel cats have much tougher lives then we do. All they
>>>>>> do is waiting for death.
>>>>>
>>>>>Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>>>
>>>>Yes.
>>>
>>> That is giving him entirely too much credit.
>>
>>I wonder what that means.
>
> That's more like it.

I don't know what that means either.

--
Ashikaga a28
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

Polychromic wrote:
> On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:21:45 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>> On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>>> erimess wrote:
>>>>>> thehawk wrote:
>>>>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>> <snip>
>>>>>>>> I agree. I often feel cats have much tougher lives then we do. All they
>>>>>>>> do is waiting for death.
>>>>>>> Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> That is giving him entirely too much credit.
>>>> I wonder what that means.
>>> That's more like it.
>> I don't know what that means either.
>
> You already said that.

It's deja vu all over again.

-thehawk
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

Ashikaga wrote:
> On 24khz Polychromic shrieked:
>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>> On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>> erimess wrote:
>>>>> thehawk wrote:
>>>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
> <snip>
>>>>>>> I agree. I often feel cats have much tougher lives then we do. All they
>>>>>>> do is waiting for death.
>>>>>> Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>>>> Yes.
>>>> That is giving him entirely too much credit.
>>> I wonder what that means.
>> That's more like it.
>
> I don't know what that means either.
>


See, first someone said something asking about if you were..

Oh, forget it.

He is giving you a bad time.

-thehawk
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On 30khz Polychromic shrieked:
> Ashikaga wrote:
>>On 24khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>>On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>>> erimess wrote:
>>>>>> thehawk wrote:
<snip>
>>>>>>>Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is giving him entirely too much credit.
>>>>
>>>>I wonder what that means.
>>>
>>> That's more like it.
>>
>>I don't know what that means either.
>
> You already said that.

But you never gave me what you really mean by that, or how you come to that
conclusion, you see. That's what I am really asking. I am seeking
confirmation, btw, so I don't jump to the conclusion, because we are
obviously from different planets (I am the sole population of Cute Planet
#3 it seems...).

--
Ashikaga a28
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On 13khz Polychromic shrieked:
> Ashikaga wrote:
>>I hand-picked Ranmao.
>
> Neat, did you go to Chiba city for yours or did you grow it yourself with
> one of those kits?

I went to Ashikaga City of course, silly Poly. No, seriously, I got
Ranmao from a trailer park, from a guy who looked like a hungry artist type
of person. He really loved cats and unfortunately he needed to sell his
cats, and my father heartlessly haggled with him for a better price.
Though Ranmao wasn't the most regal cat of them all (actually he was the
cheapest of them all, in term of price tag), but there was just something
about him that attracted me. He was a very hyper, crazy kitten. I would
even say he was a lunatic! In fact, initially, he would scratch everyone
near him, bit everyone after he declawed, and ran away in a way no sane cat
would (had some feet-eye coordination problem, I think). When we brought
him home in my dad's car, his eyes were timidly wide-open, so scared and
was trying to get lose. If you have grown up with Ranmao, I don't think
you would think what I've said is crazy. Ranmao /is/ a very dear family
member.

Did you read that Yahoo article about how one's father's child-raising
style affect one's ability in workplace? It was very strange (I would even
say borderline-amusing).

--
Ashikaga a28
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:34:18 -0700, thehawk
<thehawk5150at.DeleteThis@hotmaildot.com> wrote:

>Polychromic wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:21:45 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>>> On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>>>> erimess wrote:
>>>>>>> thehawk wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>> I agree. I often feel cats have much tougher lives then we do. All they
>>>>>>>>> do is waiting for death.
>>>>>>>> Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>> That is giving him entirely too much credit.
>>>>> I wonder what that means.
>>>> That's more like it.
>>> I don't know what that means either.
>>
>> You already said that.
>
>It's deja vu all over again.
>
>-thehawk
When you come to a fork in the road, take it.
--
Optician Dragon
-=UDIC=-
"There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it."
Larry Niven
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

Optician Dragon wrote:
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:34:18 -0700, thehawk
> <thehawk5150at.TakeThisOut@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>> Polychromic wrote:
>>> On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:21:45 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>>>> On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>>>>> erimess wrote:
>>>>>>>> thehawk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree. I often feel cats have much tougher lives then we do. All they
>>>>>>>>>> do is waiting for death.
>>>>>>>>> Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>> That is giving him entirely too much credit.
>>>>>> I wonder what that means.
>>>>> That's more like it.
>>>> I don't know what that means either.
>>> You already said that.
>> It's deja vu all over again.
>>
>> -thehawk
> When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

*nods* It gets late early out there.

-thehawk
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this.... 

On Sun, 14 May 2006 16:00:26 GMT, Optician Dragon
<dragonlensman1.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:34:18 -0700, thehawk
><thehawk5150at.DeleteThis@hotmaildot.com> wrote:
>
>>Polychromic wrote:
>>> On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:21:45 GMT, Ashikaga <citizenashi.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>>>> On 26khz Polychromic shrieked:
>>>>>>> erimess wrote:
>>>>>>>> thehawk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ashikaga wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>>> I agree. I often feel cats have much tougher lives then we do. All they
>>>>>>>>>> do is waiting for death.
>>>>>>>>> Waiting for death? Are you mental?
>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>> That is giving him entirely too much credit.
>>>>>> I wonder what that means.
>>>>> That's more like it.
>>>> I don't know what that means either.
>>>
>>> You already said that.
>>
>>It's deja vu all over again.
>>
>>-thehawk
>When you come to a fork in the road, take it.

There is no fork.

--

Erimess Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

d++e+NT++Om UK!1!2!3!A!L!
U+uCuFuG+++uLB+uA+ nC+nH+nP+nS++nT-xa4

Never compare yourself to the best others can do,
but rather to the best you can do.
 >> Stay informed about: I know you guys would hate me for this....