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Looking to be a good Warrior.

  
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Lawrence Payne

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Since: Feb 28, 2007
Posts: 84



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:49 pm
Post subject: Looking to be a good Warrior.
Archived from groups: alt>games>warcraft (more info?)
This is not a PuG complaint post, but it is a good place to ask some
questions.

Quick background. I started playing this game as a mage, but a couple
months ago I rolled a human Warrior. I got my warrior up to lvl 48 mostly
by soloing. The few recent instances I've done with him (ZF and Uldaman)
were both with PuGs because he is currently guild-less.

Both runs were more than a little chaotic, but I'll focus on the ZF run.

The group was composed of me, a lvl 49 mage, a lvl 46 Rogue, a lvl 51 hunter
and our healer a lvl 44 shaman.

There was a general lack of communication throughout the run. The mage and
shaman, both newfound friends of mine from spenting most of the day questing
together in the Hinterlands, were solid player. The rogue and the hunter
however, both add-ons to the run from LFG, were a mess. those 2 were
nothing but trouble. They were constantly running up ahead of the group,
splitting up, charging into fights alone without looking/judging mob
strength and pulling stray arrgo from all over the place. In the middle of
all of this chaos was me, the mage and shammy. My mage friend would only
fire on my target, but healing and regular/constant support fire were almost
impossible to maintain because I was constantly chasing down stray mobs
after the healer and mage and dealing with all the extra arrgo that the
hunter and the rogue were pulling. We survived most of the fights even
though we were overwhelmed several times. The DPS the 3 of us (me, rogue
and hunter) were dishing out was high enough to drop most mobs quickly. But
we did get overrun 5 times. 3 of those times led to a full wipe. the other
2 were just partials.

Here's the thing. I was able to hold arrgo on mobs that I started combat
with (meaning the mobs I Charged) but I couldn't pull the strays off of the
mage or the healer until it was too late. I was running behind them hitting
them with my sword and doing damage, but their focus stayed on the
mage/healer. Taunt worked a couple of the times but it didn't pull all of
them off.

So here is my question to all of you tanks out there. What are some tips
you can give me for grabbing and holding arrgo in a chaotic situation? The
group missed a step and 1 or 2 mobs ran away and arrgoed 5 of their friends.
How can I, as the main tank, get things back under control and put the mobs
focus solely on me?

What do you do to hold arrgo with multiple mobs? Do you Taunt right away
(meaning right after the Charge) or wait?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

--

My personal web site is still under construction. Until then you can read my
fanfiction at http://www.fanfiction.net/~lawrencepayne and
http://www.tthfanfic.com/authors.php?no=2755. Or you can check out my
original work at http://www.lulu.com/wnwg/



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Peachhead

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Since: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 42



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Lawrence Payne" <nomail DeleteThis @ihatespam.com> wrote in message
news:1192326130_2301@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> This is not a PuG complaint post, but it is a good place to ask some
> questions.
>
<snip>>
>
> What do you do to hold arrgo with multiple mobs? Do you Taunt right away
> (meaning right after the Charge) or wait?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> TIA


My warrior is mostly arms specced and Im a lousy tank. Plus I don't know
what you're specced and have available. So take this with a grain of salt.
(Although I am 70)

Don't charge. In an instance pull with your gun. Personally I have a much
easier time getting initial aggro, and therefore holding it easier if *I*
pull. If others are pulling you might try asking them to let you pull.
Sunder Armor and Thunderclap are great for getting aggro. I use Thunderclap
at my first opportunity (my pull with my gun usually gives me enough rage
for the first one) that usually gets every mobs' attention right off the bat
unless the ranged guys are pew-pewing right off the bat (which is their
mistake). I then use Sunder Armor 5 times as soon as I have the rage. I save
Taunt as a last resort if I'm trying to catch up with a mob who's peeled off
and headed toward a squishy..

I also use Cleave and Sweeping Strikes alot when facing multiple mobs. If
you use them together (SS first, then Cleave) you get twice the damage on
every mob for 5 hits.

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Hkragelund

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Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 18



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:57 am
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Start by explaining the rules and mark first and second to kill..
Rules could be like .. you do the pulling and no 1 touches the mobs before
they have hit you . If they fail to understand, give them a warning and kick
them if they keep failing.. It will save you from a lot of grief and
annoying wipes!

You have to do it this way, coz as tank you probably will be held
responsible, for all the failiures: Even though you can do anything about
it..
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Lawrence Payne

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Since: Feb 28, 2007
Posts: 84



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Peachhead" <Peachhead.DeleteThis@STOPSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:i7SdnQsDp5WJGYzanZ2dnUVZ_q6hnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Lawrence Payne" <nomail.DeleteThis@ihatespam.com> wrote in message
> news:1192326130_2301@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>> What do you do to hold arrgo with multiple mobs? Do you Taunt right away
>> (meaning right after the Charge) or wait?
>>
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> TIA
>
>
> My warrior is mostly arms specced and Im a lousy tank. Plus I don't know
> what you're specced and have available. So take this with a grain of salt.
> (Although I am 70)

After all that I forgot to state my warriors specs. Sorry. my warrior is
Arms/Fury specced.

> Don't charge. In an instance pull with your gun. Personally I have a much
> easier time getting initial aggro, and therefore holding it easier if *I*
> pull. If others are pulling you might try asking them to let you pull.
> Sunder Armor and Thunderclap are great for getting aggro. I use
> Thunderclap at my first opportunity (my pull with my gun usually gives me
> enough rage for the first one) that usually gets every mobs' attention
> right off the bat unless the ranged guys are pew-pewing right off the bat
> (which is their mistake). I then use Sunder Armor 5 times as soon as I
> have the rage. I save Taunt as a last resort if I'm trying to catch up
> with a mob who's peeled off and headed toward a squishy..
>
> I also use Cleave and Sweeping Strikes alot when facing multiple mobs. If
> you use them together (SS first, then Cleave) you get twice the damage on
> every mob for 5 hits.

good ideas all. I tried Peircing Howl too to slow the strays down so I
could catch up, but again it only worked on my target.

I'll give them I try next week. I recently got my warr into my mages guild.
Next week we're gonna do a guild run of Sunken Temple and they need me to
tank, so I'll get plenty of chances to try these things out. Thanks again.



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chocolatemalt

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Since: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 293



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:07 am
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
In article <i7SdnQsDp5WJGYzanZ2dnUVZ_q6hnZ2d RemoveThis @comcast.com>,
"Peachhead" <Peachhead RemoveThis @STOPSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

> "Lawrence Payne" <nomail RemoveThis @ihatespam.com> wrote in message
> news:1192326130_2301@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> > This is not a PuG complaint post, but it is a good place to ask some
> > questions.
> >
> <snip>>
> >
> > What do you do to hold arrgo with multiple mobs? Do you Taunt right away
> > (meaning right after the Charge) or wait?
> >
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > TIA
>
>
> My warrior is mostly arms specced and Im a lousy tank. Plus I don't know
> what you're specced and have available. So take this with a grain of salt.
> (Although I am 70)
>
> Don't charge. In an instance pull with your gun. Personally I have a much
> easier time getting initial aggro, and therefore holding it easier if *I*
> pull. If others are pulling you might try asking them to let you pull.
> Sunder Armor and Thunderclap are great for getting aggro. I use Thunderclap
> at my first opportunity (my pull with my gun usually gives me enough rage
> for the first one) that usually gets every mobs' attention right off the bat
> unless the ranged guys are pew-pewing right off the bat (which is their
> mistake). I then use Sunder Armor 5 times as soon as I have the rage. I save
> Taunt as a last resort if I'm trying to catch up with a mob who's peeled off
> and headed toward a squishy..

On the contrary, I'd say starting pulls with Charge is the best tactic
90% of the time (i.e. when proximity aggro to other mobs can obviously
be avoided). Not only do you get a big Rage boost which can immediately
be burned on a Thunderclap and maybe a Sunder, but it's also a bit of
social/PUG control in the sense that you are calling the shots on the
initial moves and can get your AoE move in before anyone tries a sheep,
seduce, etc, which generally will keep your healer aggro-proof (your
main job after all).

Letting the mobs run to you with a gun-pull while you have almost no
rage is the easiest way for things to go wrong simply because most
dps'ers have no patience. They'll lob their pyroblasts before your
first Sunder, or CC a couple mobs *right* next to you so Thunderclap
becomes unusable, some clothie mage or warlock requires a giant heal,
and before you know it the healer has three mobs on him. If you have a
tight group of guildmates in Vent then this is all avoidable, but for
average groups and especially PUGs it's easier for the Tank to take
charge with Charge.
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chocolatemalt

External


Since: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 293



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
In article <1192326130_2301.RemoveThis@sp6iad.superfeed.net>,
"Lawrence Payne" <nomail.RemoveThis@ihatespam.com> wrote:

> ...
> What do you do to hold arrgo with multiple mobs? Do you Taunt right away
> (meaning right after the Charge) or wait?
>

The basic progression I've found to work best:

1) Charge (unless you'll proximity aggro other mobs or a boss)
2) Thunderclap
3) Revenge/ShieldSlam/Sunder/ShieldBlock primary target
4) Slowly walk the melee back towards your group (and away from other
mobs)
5) If your teammates sheep, trap, seduce, walk the melee away again so
you can Thunderclap without breaking stuff.
6) goto #2 or #3

Step #3 depends on your build -- Prot tanks have better options, but
Arms/Fury warriors can do fine if the groupmates understand and slow it
up just a little. After level 65 or so (Heroics onward) the non-Prot
build becomes a major issue.

If you have improved Thunderclap, repeated application will generally
keep your healer completely free of aggro. It's very nice. If it's not
improved it takes twice the effort and you may want to try your hand the
old rotate-Sunders-among-all-mobs technique... but I've never found it
to work well. It's not fun (the constant re-targeting), your attention
is dedicated to it so you're more likely to miss the fact that you lost
a mob or that there are adds, and the primary target that you are
neglecting is *very* likely to go straight for some dps class that isn't
keen on taking a tea break while you methodically and ploddingly build
up aggro.

As for Taunt, use it only to tear a mob away from a healer or a dps
class. Healer is main priority, worry about dps'ers only if you're
certain the healer won't be getting any aggro. In fact, letting dps'ers
die occasionally due to their own aggro-mongering is often a useful
training tool for them. Smile
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John Gordon

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Since: Nov 19, 2004
Posts: 1359



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
In <1192326130_2301.TakeThisOut@sp6iad.superfeed.net> "Lawrence Payne" <nomail.TakeThisOut@ihatespam.com> writes:

> How can I, as the main tank, get things back under control and put the
> mobs focus solely on me?

If the situation has degraded to the point where there are two or three
mobs attacking other party members, then frankly there's not a lot you
*can* do.

You can try Thunderclap and Demoralizing Shout which will both hit
multiple mobs in a small area, but they often won't cause enough
threat to pull a mob off someone. Or you can use Challenging Shout,
but that's on a long cooldown.

Your job is MUCH easier when others give you a bit of a head start
to establish aggro. If they don't, you're in for a big headache.
Frankly, I'd let them die a few times and see if they get the hint.

> What do you do to hold arrgo with multiple mobs? Do you Taunt right
> away (meaning right after the Charge) or wait?

Taunt does nothing if you're already on top of the mob's threat list.
Only use it to grab aggro off of someone else.

--
John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon.TakeThisOut@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
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Brian Trosko

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Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 218



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Lawrence Payne <nomail.DeleteThis@ihatespam.com> wrote:

> good ideas all. I tried Peircing Howl too to slow the strays down so I
> could catch up, but again it only worked on my target.

> I'll give them I try next week. I recently got my warr into my mages guild.
> Next week we're gonna do a guild run of Sunken Temple and they need me to
> tank, so I'll get plenty of chances to try these things out. Thanks again.

Read up on the nuts and bolts of how threat and aggro actually work.

http://wowwiki.com/Threat
http://wowwiki.com/Aggro
http://wowwiki.com/Warrior_Taunt
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PhilHibbs

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Since: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 84



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Looking to be a good Warrior. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
I'd just like to say that I just started a warrior in order to learn
how tanking works "behind the shield", and I must say it's great fun!
He's 20 now, and has done WC twice and RFC once, all PUGs with crazy
noobs including a frost-shock-happy shaman, and it's the most
challenging thing I've had to do in WoW. If anyone's bored with just
spamming their fireball or healing spells in instances, I highly
recommend rolling a tank and doing something really challenging!

Phil.
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