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Vincenzo Beretta

External


Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 445



(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: comp>sys>ibm>pc>games>war-historical (more info?)

> *Because* they happen to be developer / publishers.

> Politicians are allowed for vote for themselves because it's
> a tiny, symbolic act lost in the millions of votes cast. But
> Olympic skaters aren't allowed to participate in the judging,
> for reasons too obvious to enumerate here.

But, to give an opposite example, the Academy is (all?) composed by members
coming from the movie industry, who get to see the movies for free (*) - and
their votes are the only ones that count for... uhm... the Academy Awards.

(*) Full disclosure: I both get games for free to review *and* I buy them. I
generally buy the ones that I would have bought anyway, like I did this year
with AGEOD ACW and a bunch of other titles (AATF, BCT, JT's Campaign
Series...) However I must admit that I play, and thus I'm able to judge in
our little award, a lot of games I haven't paid for.

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Vincenzo Beretta

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Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 445



(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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>> (*) Full disclosure: I both get games for free to review *and* I buy
>> them. I
>> generally buy the ones that I would have bought anyway
>
> Same here - bought both AGEod's games, in fact : bought 2 out of the 3
> games I voted for.

And same here: 2 out of 3. I bought AGEOD ACW and AATF. And I would have
bought Napoleon's Campaigns, too, but my chef editor was quicker than me in
obtaining a copy Surprised)

I didn't include AGEOD NC, even if I liked it very much (for the nosy: my
final mark on my magazine was 8/10 Surprised) ), because I feel that the period
really needs a complex diplomatic model - that the engine just now lacks -
thus not allowing for a full campaign "a-la" Europa Universalis. Also, I
like more the wide operational manuvres allowed by the nature of the ACW,
while the Euro theatre is more "cramped". The latter, however, is more
matter of a personal taste.

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Big Salad

External


Since: Oct 30, 2007
Posts: 21



(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Vincenzo Beretta wrote:
>>> (*) Full disclosure: I both get games for free to review *and* I
>>> buy them. I generally buy the ones that I would have bought
>>> anyway
>> Same here - bought both AGEod's games, in fact : bought 2 out of
>> the 3 games I voted for.
>
> And same here: 2 out of 3. I bought AGEOD ACW and AATF. And I would
> have bought Napoleon's Campaigns, too, but my chef editor was quicker
> than me in obtaining a copy Surprised)
>
> I didn't include AGEOD NC, even if I liked it very much (for the
> nosy: my final mark on my magazine was 8/10 Surprised) ), because I feel
> that the period really needs a complex diplomatic model - that the
> engine just now lacks - thus not allowing for a full campaign "a-la"
> Europa Universalis. Also, I like more the wide operational manuvres
> allowed by the nature of the ACW, while the Euro theatre is more
> "cramped". The latter, however, is more matter of a personal taste.

To change the topic a little...

I wonder if this could be useful as a test of the vote-timing arguments.
ACW is clearly well ahead of NC. How much of this is because ACW has
been out longer?

For myself, certainly part of the reason that Napoleon didn't get any
points from me is the fact that I haven't yet purchased it (probably
next month, when the English box comes out). But I also have reasons
(based on the subject matter, and my experience with Birth of America)
that I believe that, even after I have plenty of game time on both
titles, I will still stand by my rating of ACW as my favorite game of
this year.

Especially if these two remain as the #1 and #2 at the end of voting, it
would be really interesting to known whether NC gains ground through the
course of 2008.
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Giftzwerg

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Since: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 728



(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <Uvrgj.39673$8j3.22079@tornado.fastwebnet.it>,
reckall.DeleteThis@hotmail.com says...

> > *Because* they happen to be developer / publishers.
>
> > Politicians are allowed for vote for themselves because it's
> > a tiny, symbolic act lost in the millions of votes cast. But
> > Olympic skaters aren't allowed to participate in the judging,
> > for reasons too obvious to enumerate here.
>
> But, to give an opposite example, the Academy is (all?) composed by members
> coming from the movie industry, who get to see the movies for free (*) - and
> their votes are the only ones that count for... uhm... the Academy Awards.

Yeah, which is why the Academy Awards are mere bullshit, from a paying
customer or movie fan point of view.

Check out the IMDB's top 250 movies of all time; of the top twenty
films, how many of them won the Academy Award for Best Picture the year
they came out?

I count *five*.


--
Giftzwerg
***
"While acknowledging the difficult road they face, Clinton campaign
officials say they are not panicking."
- The Politico
"TRANSLATION: They are *sooooooo* panicking."
- Giftzwerg
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Giftzwerg

External


Since: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 728



(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <fltmjt$shc$1@sunce.iskon.hr>,
george.washington.DeleteThis@microsoft.com says...

> But, it's not quite democratic as you may think so. If it was then we could
> say that Nazi paintings on jewish shops "ACHTUNG JUDEN!" which just
> attracted lowly German scum to take the brick and throw it at such
> windows...

WTF are you babbling about here?

> So as much as you think that publishers are NAZI toward you as a customer,
> vice versa you are NAZI toward them!

<laughter>

This is like saying a woman who fights off a rapist is guilty of acting
violently against her assailant.

CLUE: I don't act NAZI towards publishers *unless* they act NAZI
against their customers. It's their choice.

> So you call those publishers NAZI and their DRM - NAZI DRM.

Yup. Achtung, baby.

> It's about copy
> protection as you already know, not about GAME!

This is like saying we need to evaluate automobiles without regard to
what they cost - or the terms of the sale. I call bullshit on that
notion.

> So you cannot accuse me that I am not buying Matrix Games and I was known to
> be not so kind to them. I buy all games that I like. 50$ for me is really
> nothing now (in high school that was a lot of money LOL).

Huh? Where - *exactly* - do I accuse you of anything?



--
Giftzwerg
***
"While acknowledging the difficult road they face, Clinton campaign
officials say they are not panicking."
- The Politico
"TRANSLATION: They are *sooooooo* panicking."
- Giftzwerg
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Frank E

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Since: Dec 01, 2004
Posts: 390



(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 09:32:02 -0800 (PST), "eddysterckx@hotmail.com"
<eddysterckx RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 7 jan, 18:07, Giftzwerg <giftzwerg... RemoveThis @NOSPAMZ.hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Or if he "buys" a copy of his own game?  Come now.  It's not "murky" at
>> all; publishers and developers and people with *obvious* conflicts of
>> interests should be ineligible.
>
>So a scenario creator / modder who is eyeing a possible future
>publishing contract is part of the in-obvious ones ?
>
>I'm planning on asking HPS for the prize game next year - maybe that's
>why I voted for Punic Wars - a suspicious vote to be removed or not ?
>
>And under your proposed rules Arjuna could vote for AATF and Pat
>Proctor for BFTB - wouldn't you suspect collusion in that case ?
>

I don't have a problem with developers, modder or whatever voting,
even if they do vote for their own game. My one caveat would be that
they have to do it in public. If they aren't willing to stand up for
their vote like everyone else here, they don't deserve the right to
cast one.

If it gets to be a problem, IE: we suddenly have 20 people that
nobody's ever heard of, all voting for the same games, we can always
change things. I'm a big fan of not trying to legislate things that
aren't a problem yet so lets just let everyone vote.

Rgds, Frank
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Paulo Vicente

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Since: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 11



(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 7 Jan, 18:43, Raging Tiger <RagingTi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> BTW, as a person who has a monetary stake in games I've made or helped
> make, I think there should definitely be a form of DRM to protect what
> I and others like me have created.
>
> But then, I shouldn't expect anyone who likely has a plethora of
> software scammed off of Limewire and eDonkey to understand that...not
> that I'm accusing you personally, of course...

I don't know about the pirates but I really can't understand why would
you want DRM.
Especially in these days, now that AGEOD and Matrix have managed to
survive and release game after game without it.
Wake up and smell the coffee Tiger, even Amazon has decided to go down
the No-DRM route for their new mp3 store, so why do want to stick with
it? Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling or something?
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Giftzwerg

External


Since: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 728



(Msg. 23) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <cd650abf-2544-48f8-a457-b1c6db561d37
@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, eddysterckx.RemoveThis@hotmail.com says...

> > Or if he "buys" a copy of his own game?  Come now.  It's not "murky" at
> > all; publishers and developers and people with *obvious* conflicts of
> > interests should be ineligible.
>
> So a scenario creator / modder who is eyeing a possible future
> publishing contract is part of the in-obvious ones ?

In fairness, Mrs. G. isn't allowed to hit me with a rolling pin (or
divorce papers) just because I'm "eyeing" Jessica Alba, only when I
actually cross the line and find myself in the sack with her.

> And under your proposed rules Arjuna could vote for AATF and Pat
> Proctor for BFTB - wouldn't you suspect collusion in that case ?

We have to be practical about this. I mean, it's not like anyone is
asking for identification here; for all I know, <developer's name here>
has already voted seven times under seven different sock-puppet nyms.

So I don't "suspect" anything. I just assert that we should keep this
for wargamers and not for wargame developers.

> See, that's why I called it "murky" - because it'll get complicated
> real fast - lot's of grey areas. So the KISS principle wins out here.

I feel the same way. Even simpler, in fact. No developers. Only
customers.


--
Giftzwerg
***
"While acknowledging the difficult road they face, Clinton campaign
officials say they are not panicking."
- The Politico
"TRANSLATION: They are *sooooooo* panicking."
- Giftzwerg
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pproctor69

External


Since: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 15



(Msg. 24) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> > And under your proposed rules Arjuna could vote for AATF and Pat
> > Proctor for BFTB - wouldn't you suspect collusion in that case ?
>
> We have to be practical about this.  I mean, it's not like anyone is
> asking for identification here; for all I know, <developer's name here>
> has already voted seven times under seven different sock-puppet nyms.

I plan on logging in as the MI5 Persecution guy and voting for XBOX
Live UNO!


PAT PROCTOR
President, ProSIM Company
http://www.prosimco.com/writing
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Briarroot

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Since: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 58



(Msg. 25) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bloodstar wrote:
>
[major snips]

> So alltogether, this voting is big farce. This newsgroup has flushed
> objectivity long time ago down the toilet
>

It's a *popularity* poll, so of course it's subjective! What else
would it be?



(I only bought one of the games listed, so I abstaining)


--
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or
the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to
their own interest." - Adam Smith
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Bloodstar

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Since: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 406



(Msg. 26) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> I was about to post that it wouldn't surprise me to wake up tomorrow
> and find out that BFC is not the owner of Battlefront.com anymore ...
>
> Well, the British and subsequent modules for CM:SF have been cancelled
> in favour of going back to a WWII setting - those ingratefull
> customers having the nerve to force them to go back to WWII when they,
> the gods of wargaming, told them to go play RTS in a modern setting -
> where is the world coming to ? Next thing you know they'll be
> demanding turn-based gaming again !

I was also the one demanding WW2 game from them, not some Fourth Reich
attacking Arabic tribes state in the desert game Surprised))))
And I told them this on their forum.


Mario
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Bloodstar

External


Since: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 406



(Msg. 27) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> It's "War-Historical's Wargame of the Year",
> Not "Non-Developer Regulars-Only Wargame of the Year". 1 man - 1 vote
> - all votes in the open.
>
> Don't let me stop you to organize a vote based on other criteria.

Actually, they can vote anonymously anyway. It's so easy to create addy
called Monkeys Brain or some other nonsense Surprised))))

I just propose that this voting be "Non Activation Based Wargame of the Year
2007"

Because 80% of you have not bought any activation based wargames lately. You
just try the demo to ridicule developers and publishers how lame they are
LOL Surprised))))


>> in any case numbers are trivial just as
>> this ng is becoming with stance of some people here.
>
> One wonders why you keep posting here then ?

It is entertaining for my brain Surprised)))) However, you have noticed that I have
not posted much lately. but I always like to serve the people and make good
flame Surprised))))
Maybe just few people on the Internet are better than me: Derek Smart, Oleg
Mastruko... Surprised))))


>> Some time before Eddy was sarcastic about SC2 - and said "there is no ads
>> to
>> be seen". Way to go Eddy. Why is that nececary?
>
> I dunno - I can only vaguely remember posting that anyway - but maybe
> because my sarcastic remark was spot-on in ridiculing one of your less-
> then-stellar observations ? Please post the context / links so we can
> all have a look why you're so upset about this.

OK:

---
Hi,

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/articles.php?p=3716&page=1&cat=59


.... and no ads for it to be seen Smile


Greetz,


Eddy Sterckx

---

I think that it was not aimed at me or it was a bait Smile At that time I was
just lurking here Smile

Now, explain to me and foremost to Hubert Cater, developer, what have you
wanted to say by this???
LOL Surprised))))

I am just curious, hehe.



Mario
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Bloodstar

External


Since: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 406



(Msg. 28) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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LOL Vince...

Heh, do you know maybe Italian band called The Rokes?
They have very nice song, called "Ma Che Colpa Abiamo Noi". One Italian girl
once translated this lyrics to me, some anarcho, rebel song Surprised)))
But if you find lyrics on English let me know...

Here is a cover by Azra (exYugo band):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avZsy01RfPA


Mario
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Bloodstar

External


Since: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 406



(Msg. 29) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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will respond later to you and Eddy Bras Hunting as I must go somewhere right
now...
Smile

http://www.womeninwaders.com/largecover05.jpg this is Eddy's assistant Smile
(Eddy don't tell your wife about this Smile



Mario
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Vincenzo Beretta

External


Since: Jul 22, 2005
Posts: 445



(Msg. 30) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Wargame of the Year 2007 election - Developers voting? No &$^%ing way!! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> But then, I shouldn't expect anyone who likely has a plethora of
> software scammed off of Limewire and eDonkey to understand that...not
> that I'm accusing you personally, of course...

Are you aware that people who get their software from Limewire and eDonkey
are THE VERY LAST ONES to be bothered by DMR schemes? 90% of the pirated
software available on the Net comes with the appropriate crack already
included; for the remaining 10% you only have to use Google.
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