Which system?

"M C" <hawaiianpunch_66.DeleteThis@mail.com> wrote in message
news:bf8af06e18c08c7a134bfa11d17@news.usenetserver.com...
> M&M,

This would be my own choice for a d20 based superhero RPG. It actually
deviates quite a bit from the basic d20 model, but IMO that is necessary to
adequatly address the peculiarities of a superhero genre. It is well
written, quite easy to understand, and well supported with both supplements
and an on-line forum.

> Silver Age Sentinels

I have a copy of this book, and despite extensive study I just can't get my
head around the rules. I think that where as M&M chooses to modify the
basic d20 system to fit with the superheroes genre, SAS tries to force the
genre to fit the d20 system. Perhaps it is just because I am not a huge fan
of d20 as a "universal system" and this is closer to the basic system than
M&M is, but this would not be my first choice.

> Champions/HERO

HERO has been more or less the defacto superhero RPG for years. It does
have a lot going for it as far as flexibility and works great with the
so-called "4-color" style of RPG. It is probably the most complex of the
systems I am aware of, and you have to decide yourself if the added power
and flexibility is worth the added complexity. For what its worth, I used
Fuzion (which is something of a simplified off-shoot of HERO) for a
superhero RPG a while ago and found it quite a nice system. The rules
themselves are available for free and can be found on the web (along with
the "Heroic Abilities" plug in with an expanded set of superpowers),
although there is little commercial or fan support for the system since HERO
games dropped their "Champions: New Millenium" line of Fuzion supplements.

> GURPS(?)

The GURPS superhero supplements were never too popular, and there were a lot
of valid criticisms of them and their ability to handled high-powers,
4-color settings (althogh they did seem to work pretty well for gritty,
lower level games). Steve Jackson Games has recently published a revised
edition of the core GURPS rules (4th ed) and there is a new "Powers"
supplement due out soon which will cover most of the rules for superpowers
(althogh I don't think it includes an official superhero setting). GURPS is
my favorite RPG system, and I am looking forward to checking out the new
supplement to see if it is an improvement over the older supplement.

> Heroes Unlimited.... Are there any other currently in print superhero
> systems?

I am unfamiliar with HU. I think there are a couple of other systems
currently in print, but the only other one I am familiar with is the most
recent Marvel Universe RPG. The MURPG is a rather simple system which is
the obvious choice if you are interested in gaming with Marvel superhero
characters. Otherwise I would probably go with either M&M or HERO (or
perhaps the new GURPS depending on how that turns out).

Hope that helps!

Mike
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"Keith Davies" <keith.davies.DeleteThis@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
news:slrndlnv9h.bbk.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
> FurrySaintNOSPAM!@hotmail.com <FurrySaintNOSPAM!@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:53:06 -0700, "Shawn Wilson"

>> Seconded. It *is* rather complicated. I remember it being said that
>> Champions was designed for math majors, and from what I've seen, it
>> is.

> Not so. I don't believe there are any complex or difficult maths
> involved.
>
> Lots and lots of calculations, but none of them are particularly
> difficult.

Agreed. The sheer volume of calculations is what annoys me. That, and the
ridiculous amounts of dice.

> (FWIW, I like HERO from a design perspective and it works really well as
> a framework, but I find it cumbersome to play.)

Agreed. I particularly find running the game with large amounts of
opponents to be annoying. I am sure someone will come out and say "ignore
the bookkeeping for the opponents," but I don't find that "solution" to my
liking.

> I've been meaning to get a copy of M&M for a long time now.

I just picked up the player's guide, and it looks pretty good.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 >> Stay informed about: Which system? 

"Malachias Invictus" replied to Keith Davies answering Shawn Wilson:

>>> Seconded. It *is* rather complicated. I remember it being said that
>>> Champions was designed for math majors, and from what I've seen, it
>>> is.

>> Not so. I don't believe there are any complex or difficult maths
>> involved.
>>
>> Lots and lots of calculations, but none of them are particularly
>> difficult.

> Agreed. The sheer volume of calculations is what annoys me. That, and
> the ridiculous amounts of dice.

Exactly. It would be more accurate to say that it's designed for people who
enjoy fiddling with equations, like me. (And, yes, I was a math major.)

It's not that it's too hard; it's that lots of people don't enjoy doing it.
I enjoy fiddling with my Excel spreadsheet, fine-tuning the characters.

Jay Rudin
 >> Stay informed about: Which system? 

"Jay Rudin" <rudin RemoveThis @ev1.net> wrote:
> "Malachias Invictus" replied to Keith Davies answering Shawn Wilson:
>
> >>> Seconded. It *is* rather complicated. I remember it being said that
> >>> Champions was designed for math majors, and from what I've seen, it
> >>> is.
>
> >> Not so. I don't believe there are any complex or difficult maths
> >> involved.
> >>
> >> Lots and lots of calculations, but none of them are particularly
> >> difficult.
>
> > Agreed. The sheer volume of calculations is what annoys me. That, and
> > the ridiculous amounts of dice.
>
> Exactly. It would be more accurate to say that it's designed for people
who
> enjoy fiddling with equations, like me. (And, yes, I was a math major.)
>
> It's not that it's too hard; it's that lots of people don't enjoy doing
it.
> I enjoy fiddling with my Excel spreadsheet, fine-tuning the characters.

I agree, and I don't begrudge the time it takes to create characters because
it's interesting in its own right. But as the sheer volume of rules
increases (with 5th Edition, plus various source books), I find my games are
bogging down. There's a lot I like about Champions but the annoyances are
starting to outweigh the good stuff. I would probably switch to something
else if I could find an elegant way to handle the character conversions it
would need.


--
David Meadows
"I lost her under the floorboards for three weeks!"
-- Grandfather Yun, HEROES issue 38
http://www.heroes.force9.co.uk/scripts
 >> Stay informed about: Which system? 

Malachias Invictus <invictusebay.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Keith Davies" <keith.davies.TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org> wrote in message
> news:slrndlnv9h.bbk.keith.davies@kjdavies.org...
>
>> I've been meaning to get a copy of M&M for a long time now.
>
> I just picked up the player's guide, and it looks pretty good.

I'm curious about when I posted that message, since I've had a copy of
M&M2e for almost a year (either a Christmas or birthday present from a
friend, so December 2005 or January 2006).


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies.TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies.TakeThisOut@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
 >> Stay informed about: Which system?