Lower income from labor mines?

I find the income from LM to be ok now, before it was way too much.
Most race have both LC and LM, with both structure and only one metal
to mine you still make 6mc per 100 prisoner. the first few turn with
LM you will earn 15mc per turn (you also have LC). than it will drop
to one or 2 metal.

Just built base with 100-1000 labor mines (and the matching numbers in
labor camp).

And for the Drac they have a very good early economy with their GC,
that can exceed or at the very least match other races economy until
you get first prisoners batch between turn 10-20.
Having 11 GC early is not hard, and the cost of the Drac ship list is
low you start with enough engines (on your starting ships, + the one
on the base) to have a powerful attack fleet early (towing each
other).
You gan have PTT early with the Drac if you wish too, and you have a
good HW defense ship, that can also be on the attack if needed, be
sending it at warp 50, or refiting it's engine.

The drac have a better economy than EE, Bird, Strormers, Aczanny
(prisoners races) before they get their prisoners.
So the Drac if properply played can mount a more powerful fleet, and
get prisoner earlier than those race, with the EE exception due to
their fast HYP.
Also Drac have low cost and very effective war ships the Eridanus. The
Mighty and numerous CerberusS will make short work of any enemies
minefield.
The combo Balka towing an Eridanus is cheap, they do well with PTT,
but could use lower tech weapon for their first raid to get prisoners.

I have played the Drac and find it easy to mount a early attack fleet
and get prisoners.
My Early attack fleet of the Drac is more powerful than my attack
fleet of the EE, (of witch I have played many times and won most).

Lord Lancelot
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines? 

Could you please list the code that determines how unmined minerals
turn into metals with the labor mines.
From what is in the wiki for mines I have put together the following
factors but the function doesn't fit with the game data.

ExtractedMetal = (Density / 100) * (Prisoner Race Mine Modifier / 100)
* Labor Mines * 5

Phaidros
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines? 

On 3 Jun., 22:22, Phaidros <tiab... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> Could you please list the code that determines how unmined minerals
> turn into metals with the labor mines.
> From what is in the wiki for mines I have put together the following
> factors but the function doesn't fit with the game data.
>
> ExtractedMetal = (Density / 100) * (Prisoner Race Mine Modifier / 100)
> * Labor Mines * 5
>
> Phaidros

Well, one factor is missing for sure: the amount of unmined minerals.

ExtractedMetal = UnminedMinerals * (Density / 100) * (Prisoner Race
Mine Modifier / 100) * Labor Mines * 5
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines? 

On Jun 3, 2:11 pm, Phaidros <tiab....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, one factor is missing for sure: the amount of unmined minerals.
>
> ExtractedMetal = UnminedMinerals * (Density / 100) * (Prisoner Race
> Mine Modifier / 100) * Labor Mines * 5

This is over-simplifying the process, but ok:

ExtractedMetal = (Density / 100) * (Prisoner Race Mine Modifier / 100)
* Labor Mines * 5
If ExtractedMetal > UnminedMinerals Then ExtractedMetal =
UnminedMinerals

The best mining race prisoners are used first until the number of
prisoners used meets the capacity of the buildings that you have. For
example, we say that you have 10k Lizards, 100k Solorian prisoners,
and 90 labor mines. The Lizards will be used in the mines first up to
the 9k lizard prisoners that would fill the capacity of the 90 labor
mines and the rest are skipped.

Standard mineral mines use the following formula (and condition):

ExtractedMetal = (Density / 100) * (Race Mine Modifier / 100) * Mines
* 10 * Bonus
If ExtractedMetal > UnminedMinerals Then ExtractedMetal =
UnminedMinerals

Bonus here is a base of 1 for all standard races, .125 for RCS using
Arerran Capital, 3 for RCS using Xelovi Hive. The bonus increases by
1 if RCS has 50k insectoids, and for any race having 50k reptilians.

And note that standard mineral mines have a diminishing return over
100 mines by any mines that exceed 100 only count for their square
root in number. Labor mines don't have diminishing return.

Magik
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines? 

Ok, thanks a lot. Now we a good common base to discuss what's going
on.

I have a base with a small population of Privateer prisoners, enough
to fill 10 labor mines and 10 labor factories.

The Base log says:
Labor camps have generated 2 supplies and 30 mc.
Labor mines produced 19 kt of metals and 57 mc.

Planet data are the following (they are from the end of the turn, so
do reflect exactly the situation when the labor mine code jumps in,
but with that small number of labor mines they should be good enough):

N 2897 65%
D 1962 33%
T 2015 32%
M 376 26%

The first column gives the amount of unmined minerals, the second
column the density.

If I enter these numbers into the labor mine function with the mining
stat of the Privateers of 25 and the density taken as percentage (eg.
0.65) the result is:

ExtractedMetal:
N 3.62
D 2.45
T 2.52
M 0.47

Depending on how rounding is done this should result in either 7 or 9
kt of minerals mined. So interestingly enough the program gives me a
quite a bonus in that case.

I have another small base with a few Privateer prisoners, just enough
to fill 1 labor mine and 1 labor factory.

The base log says:
Labor camps have generated 0 supplies and 3 mc.
Labor mines produced 3 kt of metals and 6 mc.

The planet data for that one are:
N 39412 62%
D 1855 40%
T 696 19%
M 1108 42%

Calculating according to the same procedure the extracted metal should
consist of 4.93 units of Neutronium. However, that's again not what
the base log says. And this time a double penalty is served. The
amount of metals is lower and you get only 2 mc per metal.

Q1: What's going on here?

Q2: How does the function deal with labor mines and labor factories
that are only partly filled. Are they completely ignored or to the
enter the calculation as partly filled?

Phaidros
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines? 

"Phaidros" <tiaboli DeleteThis @hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:87a319e5-99db-43a7-8fc4-0fc605030d47@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, thanks a lot. Now we a good common base to discuss what's going
> on.
>
> I have a base with a small population of Privateer prisoners, enough
> to fill 10 labor mines and 10 labor factories.
>
> The Base log says:
> Labor camps have generated 2 supplies and 30 mc.
> Labor mines produced 19 kt of metals and 57 mc.

[...]

> N 2897 65%
> D 1962 33%
> T 2015 32%
> M 376 26%
>
> The first column gives the amount of unmined minerals, the second
> column the density.
>
> If I enter these numbers into the labor mine function with the mining
> stat of the Privateers of 25 and the density taken as percentage (eg.
> 0.65) the result is:
>
> ExtractedMetal:
> N 3.62
> D 2.45
> T 2.52
> M 0.47


Using the formula provided by Magik:

ExtractedMetal = (Density / 100) * (Prisoner Race Mine Modifier / 100) * Labor
Mines * 5
If ExtractedMetal > UnminedMinerals Then ExtractedMetal = UnminedMinerals

In your case we have:

(Prisoner Race Mine Modifier / 100) * Labor Mines * 5
= 0.25 * 10 * 5 = 12,5

Using your densities from above we get:

N: 0.65 * 12,5 = 8,125
D 0.33 * 12,5 = 4,125
T 0.32 * 12,5 = 4
M: 0.26 * 12,5 = 3,25

-> 19kt (like your log stated)

Cheers,
Jochen
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines? 

On 15 Jun., 00:55, "Black No.1" <keineahnung....RemoveThis@gmx.de> wrote:
> "Phaidros" <tiab....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitragnews:87a319e5-99db-43a7-8fc4-0fc605030d47@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Ok, thanks a lot. Now we a good common base to discuss what's going
> > on.
>
> > I have a base with a small population of Privateer prisoners, enough
> > to fill 10 labor mines and 10 labor factories.
>
> > The Base log says:
> > Labor camps have generated 2 supplies and 30 mc.
> > Labor mines produced 19 kt of metals and 57 mc.
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > N 2897 65%
> > D 1962 33%
> > T 2015 32%
> > M 376 26%
>
> > The first column gives the amount of unmined minerals, the second
> > column the density.
>
> > If I enter these numbers into the labor mine function with the mining
> > stat of the Privateers of 25 and the density taken as percentage (eg.
> > 0.65) the result is:
>
> > ExtractedMetal:
> > N 3.62
> > D 2.45
> > T 2.52
> > M 0.47
>
> Using the formula provided by Magik:
>
> ExtractedMetal = (Density / 100) * (Prisoner Race Mine Modifier / 100) * Labor
> Mines * 5
> If ExtractedMetal > UnminedMinerals Then ExtractedMetal = UnminedMinerals
>
> In your case we have:
>
> (Prisoner Race Mine Modifier / 100) * Labor Mines * 5
> = 0.25 * 10 * 5 = 12,5
>
> Using your densities from above we get:
>
> N: 0.65 * 12,5 = 8,125
> D 0.33 * 12,5 = 4,125
> T 0.32 * 12,5 = 4
> M: 0.26 * 12,5 = 3,25
>
> -> 19kt (like your log stated)
>
> Cheers,
> Jochen

Yeah, I got it. The new race modifier really hurts if you go after the
Privateers. They are scum and lazy.

Phaidros
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines? 

"Phaidros" <tiaboli DeleteThis @hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:db03a3b5-eff7-4129-8e88-6d19a3991014@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

> Yeah, I got it. The new race modifier really hurts if you go after the
> Privateers. They are scum and lazy.
>
> Phaidros

Just bomb them away and get the goodies...

Cheers,
Jochen
 >> Stay informed about: Lower income from labor mines?