Resillence...

On 28 avr, 16:20, "ave" <a....RemoveThis@nomailplease.com> wrote:

> > Please, enlighten me as to the "correct" way to play shadow then. I could
> > either nuke, kill fast and be oom in 1 pull, or play for mana conservation
> > and kill slower than with holy... neither way strikes me as very fun.
>
> > So tell me the "proper" way then.
>
> mind blast, sw:p, turn around and run away, vampiric embrace while running,
> after global cooldown is done stop and cast vampiric touch then mind flay
> once or twice, mob will be on less than half health at this point, finally
> simply wand (sw:p and vampiric touch are still ticking). When the mob is
> dead you'll be pretty much full health and with hardly any mana loss, if you
> take spirit tap over blackout you'll be at full mana\health by the time you
> start on the next mob.

Mind blast, swp, VE, VT, MF + wand = 1.5s+1.5s+1.5s+1.5s+3s+1.5s =
10.5s
That's almost 50% slower than 23/33/5, who kills mobs with simple holy
fire/smite/smite combos).

Shadow is slow, that's a fact, because you need to multiply spells
that should never reach their full duration in solo situations. A lot
of mana & time are wasted. Shadowpriests can never deal their full dps
outside of group PVE, holy can never deal their full dps during group
PVE, and it's been the case since day 1 of WoW. Holy DPS is simply
better for solo damage dealing, and from level 65 and up, it also has
the nice feature of a permanent spirit tap that grants additional
damage as well as a permanently full mana bar.

Like Cat & I said, after playing an "Improved Divine Light Tap
Guidance of Redemption" build, you can never come back to shadow for
soloing. It just makes no sense. No sense whatsoever. No sense
especially when you get to the point where you practically two-shot
stuff or AOE grind mobs by packs of 6 without downtime. It's not a
matter of "playing shadow properly", it's just that at the moment, the
shadow tree is vastly inferior in all areas for soloing. Just like
discipline today is superior to holy for arenas. And just like shadow
is superior to holy & discipline for raid damage dealing and outdoor
ganking.

It doesn't take rocket science, just some practice, trial and error.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

I you're a healing priest in arena and you don't spec Disc you fail.
Simple.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Apr 28, 12:10 pm, Catriona R <catrionarNOS....TakeThisOut@totalise.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:03:35 -0700 (PDT), Dynafrack <Dynafr....TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I you're a healing priest in arena and you don't spec Disc you fail.
> >Simple.
>
> Thanks for reinforcing my opinion that it's pointless to try and discuss
> anything here. I thought this place was better than the official forums,
> evidently I was mistaken.
> --
> EU-Draenor:
> Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
> Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
> Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
> Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
> Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
> Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
> Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)

Unfortunately in this case there's no room for discussion. You do it
or fail. That's it.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On 28 avr, 17:23, Catriona R <catrionarNOS....RemoveThis@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:04:22 -0700 (PDT), Babe Bridou
>
>
>
> <babebri....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On 28 avr, 16:20, "ave" <a....RemoveThis@nomailplease.com> wrote:
>
> >> > Please, enlighten me as to the "correct" way to play shadow then. I could
> >> > either nuke, kill fast and be oom in 1 pull, or play for mana conservation
> >> > and kill slower than with holy... neither way strikes me as very fun.
>
> >> > So tell me the "proper" way then.
>
> >> mind blast, sw:p, turn around and run away, vampiric embrace while running,
> >> after global cooldown is done stop and cast vampiric touch then mind flay
> >> once or twice, mob will be on less than half health at this point, finally
> >> simply wand (sw:p and vampiric touch are still ticking). When the mob is
> >> dead you'll be pretty much full health and with hardly any mana loss, if you
> >> take spirit tap over blackout you'll be at full mana\health by the time you
> >> start on the next mob.
>
> >Mind blast, swp, VE, VT, MF + wand = 1.5s+1.5s+1.5s+1.5s+3s+1.5s =
> >10.5s
> >That's almost 50% slower than 23/33/5, who kills mobs with simple holy
> >fire/smite/smite combos).
>
> Ahh, nice maths indeed, never added up my holy grinding time, but when I
> use a +dmg for 15 sec trinket I can usually get the first spell off on the
> 2nd mob I kill before the trinket proc ends, so yeah, first mob's dead in
> about 10 sec, given I always loot+retarget before starting the next mob.
> Generally I skip sw:p now as the mob doesn't live long enough for it to be
> worthwhile (unless it's a high health mob or more than one of them), so
> holy fire, smite smite smite sw:d if off cd, vary number of smites
> according to crits and mob health. My record was a 3-shot on roughly same
> lvl mob, when holy fire and 2 smites all critted, usually takes 5-6 spells,
> but with surge of lights and sw:d to finish usually at least one is instant
> cast.
>
> >Shadow is slow, that's a fact, because you need to multiply spells
> >that should never reach their full duration in solo situations. A lot
> >of mana & time are wasted. Shadowpriests can never deal their full dps
> >outside of group PVE, holy can never deal their full dps during group
> >PVE, and it's been the case since day 1 of WoW. Holy DPS is simply
> >better for solo damage dealing, and from level 65 and up, it also has
> >the nice feature of a permanent spirit tap that grants additional
> >damage as well as a permanently full mana bar.
>
> >Like Cat & I said, after playing an "Improved Divine Light Tap
> >Guidance of Redemption" build,
>
> I love that build name
>
> >you can never come back to shadow for
> >soloing. It just makes no sense. No sense whatsoever. No sense
> >especially when you get to the point where you practically two-shot
> >stuff or AOE grind mobs by packs of 6 without downtime.
>
> That's a point I'd love to reach - what kind of stats do you have to manage
> that? I can grind mob after mob with no downtime, but aoe doesn't work so
> well for me, get oom before everything's dead and then I have a problem
> 870 spelldmg, 18% crit, and two +spelldmg proc trinkets, which combined
> with spirit tap means I'm usually on more like 1k spelldmg, so long as I
> killed something in the last 15 seconds.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sunstrider&n=Esa
(just ignore the build, it's a tweak tentative, but it doesn't work as
well as 23+/28+/5+)

Your gear is better than mine for pure damage, but then again, what
would you expect, I'm too casual

What kind of spirit do you have? I think it's the key. A large part of
my stats are actually hidden

Between my bangle activate ("Endless Blessings", 2mins cooldown) &
masquerade gown procs ("Love Struck", 40 sec cooldown) with spirit tap
up, I'm somewhere between 700 (worst case, both bangle & gown on
cooldown) and ~1200 spirit (best case, both bangle & gown up), with a
mana regen inside the FSR of 80-95% depending on the passive bangle
proc ("meditation"). That's a shitload of mana, and that's a nice
spellpower bonus from spirit tap ranging anywhere from +127 to +420.

The tricky part for AOE is getting the first kill without dying, I
generally don't find enough mobs to AOE, so when I do that, I run in
for initial aggro, spam shadow word pain all around, then cast the
shadowfiend (we don't want him to aggro all the mobs, remember holy
nova has no threat, one is enough for prayer of mending bouncing),
then inner focus and spam holy nova, firing surge of light on the
fiend's target as soon as it procs. The fiend's target dies first, and
I'm generally at 75% mana when that happens, with a very decent chance
for having both bangle and gown up at the time. Mana regen goes
through the roof and stays there, holy nova keeps me alive and
finishes all the mobs.

The great part is that when you AOE, each target counts as a "spell
cast", so Love Struck, Meditation or Focus buffs are pretty much
guaranteed to proc within the first two novae, so my Spirit tap is
pretty much always at full potential. TONS of mana, TONS of healing,
TONS of damage.

I can't go much higher than 6 mobs though, as I start getting
survivability issues sooner or later - unlike a mage, I don't kite
mobs, unlike warriors/paladins, I don't tank them. It's very similar
to a lock's seed of corruption. I could try to respec for power
infusion to reach a couple more mobs. 20% faster damage, 20% faster
healing and 20% cheaper spells at the same time probably means a lot
more than an additional mob in those Holy Nova sequences.

My next upgrade will come when I finally reach exalted with the Aldor,
a nice +120 spellpower can't hurt much
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

> Fair enough but there's nothing in disc that seems to
> make much difference to that.

There is power infusion and pain suppression which are 100 times better than
circle of healing (for pvp). Yes, these don't inherently reduce push-back,
but they make you last longer or cast faster giving you much more chance to
fire off those heals.

Combined with focused power, mental agility, absolution and improved mana
burn a disc priest is a powerful offensive healer with a huge amount of
utility. A holy priest can just about only heal, they may spec holy + disc
upto imp mana burn but still wouldn't be as effective as a proper disc
priest (42/19/0 or similar).

> Why would it irk you? Maybe it's not FotM then, although it sure looks
> like

Simply because it isn't a fotm and the statement was false It's been the
premier pvp healing spec since almost forever (post tbc) You can't just
state something is fotm just to convince yourself it's not a good build.

> it, but I get bored of being told "you must do this" for stuff. I want to
> do what *I* find fun, not what everyone else says I ought to do.

Well, it *is* a game. The whole point of playing is for you to have fun, so
you shouldn't spec something you don't want to spec. I certainly wouldn't.

> If I did that I'd spec shadow for levelling and that is tedious beyond
> belief (yes I
> tried when everyone said I was supposed to, it sucked. Holy is so much
> more
> fun it's unbelieveable)

I specced shadow for levelling on my priest, it's not the greatest of fun
but I solo'd way faster than I would have as holy with little downtime.
However, again, spec what you enjoy not what others tell you to enjoy. I
personally found disc healing far more enjoyable than holy, but that's just
an opinion.

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On 28 avr, 18:45, Babe Bridou <babebri....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

> spellpower bonus from spirit tap ranging anywhere from +127 to +420***
>

*** correction: from 127 to 297.5
Forgot to deduct the spellpower bonus from base spirit when doing the
best case scenario.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:58:50 +0100, "ave" <ave.TakeThisOut@nomailplease.com> wrote:

>> Fair enough but there's nothing in disc that seems to
>> make much difference to that.
>
>There is power infusion and pain suppression which are 100 times better than
>circle of healing (for pvp). Yes, these don't inherently reduce push-back,
>but they make you last longer or cast faster giving you much more chance to
>fire off those heals.

Do they really help? The descriptions look utterly underwhelming and
frankly useless. Circle of healing is an instant cast heal... blatantly
obvious where that's useful, as it can't be interrupted and can be cast
while moving. In any case I have neither option currently, but CoH looks a
much more suitable improvement to me for my way of playing.

>Combined with focused power, mental agility, absolution and improved mana
>burn a disc priest is a powerful offensive healer with a huge amount of
>utility. A holy priest can just about only heal, they may spec holy + disc
>upto imp mana burn but still wouldn't be as effective as a proper disc
>priest (42/19/0 or similar).

Maybe. I'm a healer though, and a healer heals so... holy is the way to go
for me. Disc just does not look appealing or good for a healer.

>> Why would it irk you? Maybe it's not FotM then, although it sure looks
>> like
>
>Simply because it isn't a fotm and the statement was false It's been the
>premier pvp healing spec since almost forever (post tbc) You can't just
>state something is fotm just to convince yourself it's not a good build.

Never said it wasn't good, just that it seems so overpopular that it's
fotm. Maybe a longterm fotm but still fotm, in that it's the one everyone
says you "should" have.

>> If I did that I'd spec shadow for levelling and that is tedious beyond
>> belief (yes I
>> tried when everyone said I was supposed to, it sucked. Holy is so much
>> more
>> fun it's unbelieveable)
>
>I specced shadow for levelling on my priest, it's not the greatest of fun
>but I solo'd way faster than I would have as holy with little downtime.
>However, again, spec what you enjoy not what others tell you to enjoy. I
>personally found disc healing far more enjoyable than holy, but that's just
>an opinion.

I find it hard to believe that shadow is faster than holy, whenever I tried
shadow it was slower and far more downtime. Can't just stick a renew on
yourself to top up your health, have to sit and drink every 2 pulls...
zzzz..... evidently it works for some people but I found it horrible
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

> Do they really help?

Yes, they help an incredible amount.

> The descriptions look utterly underwhelming and
> frankly useless.

If you look at them independently, yea, they aren't so powerful. But
combined with everything else a priest can do they are completely unmissable
talents (for pvp).

> Circle of healing is an instant cast heal...

CoH may be instant but it's not enough, alone, to save someone's life.

> Maybe. I'm a healer though, and a healer heals so... holy is the way to go
> for me. Disc just does not look appealing or good for a healer.

In pvp, if all your priest can do is heal you might as well not bother imho.

> Never said it wasn't good, just that it seems so overpopular that it's
> fotm.

It's overpopular for a reason.

> Maybe a longterm fotm but still fotm, in that it's the one everyone
> says you "should" have.

Fotm, by it's very wording, doesn't ever mean 'long term'. And "longterm
fotm" just makes no sense.

> I find it hard to believe that shadow is faster than holy, whenever I
> tried
> shadow it was slower and far more downtime.

Perhaps you didn't play shadow correctly then?

> Can't just stick a renew on
> yourself to top up your health, have to sit and drink every 2 pulls...

I rarely needed to drink as shadow and rarely needed to heal myself either.
Just sounds like you didn't play shadow properly

I would suggest you visit warcraftmovies.com and download and watch some
disc priest pvp movies, but I'm guessing you wouldn't do that. So I wont
suggest it

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:13:32 +0100, "ave" <ave DeleteThis @nomailplease.com> wrote:

>> Do they really help?
>
>Yes, they help an incredible amount.
>
>> The descriptions look utterly underwhelming and
>> frankly useless.
>
>If you look at them independently, yea, they aren't so powerful. But
>combined with everything else a priest can do they are completely unmissable
>talents (for pvp).

In what way do they help, then? Because seriously they look terrible, and I
really can't understand why disc is so popular, it's an awful; awful
healing tree, anytime i've had the misfortune to group with a disc priest
their healing has been so terrible that I can't see the appeal at all.
Evidently it has use in pvp or people wouldn't spec that way, but I'm
totally missing that use.

>> Circle of healing is an instant cast heal...
>
>CoH may be instant but it's not enough, alone, to save someone's life.

Sure, alone. But it's surely an improvement on a pve 23/33/5 build? And
obviously it's not alone, it's combined with all the other priest spells...

>> Maybe. I'm a healer though, and a healer heals so... holy is the way to go
>> for me. Disc just does not look appealing or good for a healer.
>
>In pvp, if all your priest can do is heal you might as well not bother imho.

Ok, I won't bother making comments or asking for tips on this group again
if that's all the level of usefulness of response there is to be found.
Healing is what I'm there for. End of story.

>> Never said it wasn't good, just that it seems so overpopular that it's
>> fotm.
>
>It's overpopular for a reason.
>
>> Maybe a longterm fotm but still fotm, in that it's the one everyone
>> says you "should" have.
>
>Fotm, by it's very wording, doesn't ever mean 'long term'. And "longterm
>fotm" just makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. Was disc fotm before TBC? No, shadow was "the"
spec. Disc has been fotm for a while but it'll still change soon enough
when something else gets buffed/nerfed. Just because disc hasn't been
changed for a few months doesn't make it any less fotm.

>> I find it hard to believe that shadow is faster than holy, whenever I
>> tried
>> shadow it was slower and far more downtime.
>
>Perhaps you didn't play shadow correctly then?

Please, enlighten me as to the "correct" way to play shadow then. I could
either nuke, kill fast and be oom in 1 pull, or play for mana conservation
and kill slower than with holy... neither way strikes me as very fun.

>> Can't just stick a renew on
>> yourself to top up your health, have to sit and drink every 2 pulls...
>
>I rarely needed to drink as shadow and rarely needed to heal myself either.
>Just sounds like you didn't play shadow properly

So tell me the "proper" way then.

>I would suggest you visit warcraftmovies.com and download and watch some
>disc priest pvp movies, but I'm guessing you wouldn't do that. So I wont
>suggest it

Heh, you'd be right, I'm not interested in playing disc so there's not much
point me looking at those movies. I want to heal so I'll play as a healer

--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:33:38 +0100, Catriona R
<catrionarNOSPAM DeleteThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:13:32 +0100, "ave" <ave DeleteThis @nomailplease.com> wrote:
>
>>> I find it hard to believe that shadow is faster than holy, whenever I
>>> tried
>>> shadow it was slower and far more downtime.
>>
>>Perhaps you didn't play shadow correctly then?
>
>Please, enlighten me as to the "correct" way to play shadow then. I could
>either nuke, kill fast and be oom in 1 pull, or play for mana conservation
>and kill slower than with holy... neither way strikes me as very fun.
>
>>> Can't just stick a renew on
>>> yourself to top up your health, have to sit and drink every 2 pulls...
>>
>>I rarely needed to drink as shadow and rarely needed to heal myself either.
>>Just sounds like you didn't play shadow properly
>
>So tell me the "proper" way then.

He is right- played properly, with proper talent selections and gear
choices, a shadow build will be able to solo quest/level incredibly
faster than any holy priest. Shadow is built for rapid damage output,
and when done right, you hardly ever need to throw any heals on
yourself. Of course you need to watch for and use all the +shadow
damage and +spell damage gear you can get ahold of, just as you would
look for all the +heal gear you could find if you were holy spec. This
is critical. You don't play a shadow priest in heal spec gear and
expect to do very well.

A key shadow talent is one of the first ones- Spirit Tap. This will
help you regen mana fairly quickly after each kill, and improve your
uptime before having to drink again. Shadow Focus- maxed, lowers a
mobs resistance to your shadow spells by 10%. Very big. Improved Mind
Blast- shortens the cooldown time of your Mind Blast by .5 seconds.
Doesn't sound like much, but MB is your Big Hitter as a soloing shadow
priest, and when you are shields-up and getting beat on, .5 seconds
less waiting for it to be ready, is huge. Shadow Reach- +20% range on
your shadow spells... also huge. As with any offensive caster, range
from the mob is your best friend. More time and distance between you
and pain is always a good thing. Silence- a no-brainer talent for a
shadow priest. When soloing casters, you don't want them standing off
and hurting you with their heavy stuff, you want them lumbering
towards you with their little letter-opener in hand and their thumb up
their butt whilst you melt their faces into a puddle of goo.

And of course, Mind Flay, Shadow Form, Vampiric Embrace, and all the
other obvious damage-enhancing and combat healing goodies that are
self-evident talents you should choose if you swing with shadow.

As for gear, besides the +spell/shadow damage stats, I look for all
the intellect, mp5 and spirit I can get, for a big mana pool and as
much regen as possible. Although it's nice to have a bunch of stam if
you can get it, I don't worry too much about getting huge amounts. A
shadow priest stays alive by shielding and killing things fast to
avoid taking damage, or by utilizing improved Vampiric Embrace for
combat healing. My preference is choice #1, and it works well for me.

So, exactly how do you fight things? Remember, range is your friend.
Range and applying as much hurt to the mob as fast as possible. After
you select a suitable victim, position yourself as far from it as
possible and still be in range, which is over 40 yards with the Shadow
Reach talent. Shield yourself! Always shield before combat, when
soloing. It is cheap, and it is what will keep you from having to pop
out of shadowform and slap heals on yourself after a fight (also
extremely critical, is the fact that the shield keeps your casting
from being interrupted!).

Lead off with a Mind Blast, for maximum starting damage while they're
still the farthest distance away (and to get the MB cooldown timer
started immediately). Just as the MB is going off, slap the Shadow
Word:Pain button to get your powerful DoT ticking away on it as
quickly as possible. As soon as it gets in range of your Mind Flay
(which is always amazingly fast!), use it. This will do good damage
and slow them down to where they will just be reaching you by the time
you are ready to fire off another Mind Blast. Now they will be
thumping on your shield- no problem, you have a while before it gets
hammered away... as long as you aren't trying to solo something way
too powerful for you

Your MB will be ready again at that point, since you wisely chose to
max out Imp Mind Blast. Split seconds count, in the shadow business.
Whap it again with MB, and immediately go back to MF (Mind Flay) a
couple more times. If the mob is still up, hit it again with MB if
needed- usually it's pretty well gone by then. Often at that point, I
will save mana by just wanding them until the SW:P finishes off their
last sliver of life. Did I mention the Imp SW:P talent that extends
your DoT by an extra 6 seconds? A great investment If you have
managed to aquire a decent amount of +spell/shadow damage gear, this
process will usually have finished off most mobs before they are able
to break through your shield. If they do break through, just refresh
the shield and go back to work.

Once you master this method, you will hardly ever have to touch a
healing button again. I never even use VE, when I'm playing it this
way. And if worst comes to worst, or your shield goes down before you
are able to recast it, just fear the bastard and then use Mind Flay to
keep it slowed down and not running all over collecting adds.

Once it's dead, be patient for a bit and let Spirit Tap run its course
to give you back the most mana possible, then shield-up and start into
the next victim.

For caster mobs, you will have to move in a little closer to them
before starting, as the Silence spell has a somewhat shorter range on
it than your other shadow spells, and you want to hit them with it
immediately after you slam them with Mind Blast, and before they get
off their first cast. Or you can apply MB and SW:P first, allowing
them to get maybe one cast off, before you cast Silence on them-
usually they aren't going to blow away your shield with just one cast.
Then MF and Mind Blast until they are good and toasty. Also, if you
are fighting mobs that you know have the Mana Burn ability, I always
save the Silence cooldown to counter that with, if they try to use it
during the fight. A shadow priest with no mana is not a happy camper.

When partied up for quests or instances, use Vampiric Embrace
(Improved through talents, for best affect) to help heal your group,
and remove the damned Mind Blast button from your interface!!! LOL!
Nothing is more sad than a shadow priest used to using MB all the time
while soloing, who thinks its the best thing since fried icecream when
partied up. Never use MB while partied, as it will usually steal aggro
from the tank in a heartbeat. It causes huge aggro. When partied, just
use Mind Flay and SW:P. Lots of SW:P. Many people don't realize just
how deadly SW:P is, when you have plenty of extra spell damage on you-
it generally does almost 1/3 of my priest's damage.

And now you know how to effectively play a shadow priest. If you
weren't doing it this way, then you know exactly why your experiences
with one sucked. Played as outlined above, a good shadow priest will
blow through mobs many times faster than any other kind of build-
holy, disc, hybrid, whatever. They can't even come close.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

> and I really can't understand why disc is so popular, it's
> an awful; awful healing tree

It's hardly awful, it's not *that* far behind holy in raw healing strength.

> anytime i've had the misfortune to group with a disc priest
> their healing has been so terrible that I can't see the appeal at all.

Then you've grouped with poor disc priests. Anyway, yes, holy is better for
instance groups. Disc shines more in pvp.

> Sure, alone. But it's surely an improvement on a pve 23/33/5 build? And
> obviously it's not alone, it's combined with all the other priest
> spells...

23/33/5 is a soloing build. For pure healing I would personally spec
20/41/0. Again my comment was aimed at pvp, not pvp. Ofcourse holy is better
at raw healing in pve.

> Ok, I won't bother making comments or asking for tips on this group again
> if that's all the level of usefulness of response there is to be found.

That's a bit immature. My statement was neither aggressive nor derogatory.
Stating that you will stop commenting or asking questions just because you
don't like a reply is a little spoilt.

> Healing is what I'm there for. End of story.

Then you should not pvp The further this discussion goes, the more it
sounds like you simply want to pve. If you're wanting to heal in pve then I
agree fully, holy is the way to go.

> It makes perfect sense. Was disc fotm before TBC? No, shadow was "the"
> spec.

No it doesn't. TBC has been around for over a year now. Which does not equal
"a month". I could stretch an fotm statement to maybe four months, anything
longer than that isn't "fotm".

> Disc has been fotm for a while but it'll still change soon enough
> when something else gets buffed/nerfed. Just because disc hasn't been
> changed for a few months doesn't make it any less fotm.

Disc has been changed a lot recently tbf, and it's still the premier pvp
healing spec.

> Please, enlighten me as to the "correct" way to play shadow then. I could
> either nuke, kill fast and be oom in 1 pull, or play for mana conservation
> and kill slower than with holy... neither way strikes me as very fun.
>
> So tell me the "proper" way then.
>

mind blast, sw:p, turn around and run away, vampiric embrace while running,
after global cooldown is done stop and cast vampiric touch then mind flay
once or twice, mob will be on less than half health at this point, finally
simply wand (sw:p and vampiric touch are still ticking). When the mob is
dead you'll be pretty much full health and with hardly any mana loss, if you
take spirit tap over blackout you'll be at full mana\health by the time you
start on the next mob.

> Heh, you'd be right, I'm not interested in playing disc so there's not
> much
> point me looking at those movies. I want to heal so I'll play as a healer
>

Disc *is* a healer. The heals are not much less than a full holy priest with
similar gear. But it's a pvp healer, holy is a pve healer.

I'm not trying to convince you to spec disc, but saying it's worse than holy
for pvp healing is just ignorant As I said, if you're interested in
healing in pve, then yes. Holy is ahead of disc for healing instances.

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

> Again my comment was aimed at pvp, not pvp.

Should read:

"Again my comment was aimed at pvp, not pve."

bleh, ignore any typos I make. I'm poor at proofreading my own text

ave
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence... 

On 28 avr, 17:20, Moosen <nos....DeleteThis@buhbye.com> wrote:

<snip good starter's guide>

> Once it's dead, be patient for a bit and let Spirit Tap run its course
> to give you back the most mana possible, then shield-up and start into
> the next victim.

That's one of the more common mistakes. It's been discussed in these
boards before, but Spirit Tap, by itself, grants more mana if you keep
casting. Let me explain again, in case you missed it:

Say your spirit regen grants you 0mp5 while casting and 100mp5 while
not casting. What spirit tap does is double your spirit (thus your
spirit regen) to 0mp5 while casting and 200mp5 while not casting. And
then, grant you a bonus of 50% of your (doubled) spirit regen while
casting. So your total regen becomes, under spirit tap:
100mp5 while casting
200mp5 while not casting.
So Over 15 seconds, spirit tap grants 300 mana if you cast spells, and
300 mana if you don't cast spells.

Now say your spirit regen grants you 30mp5 while casting (meditation
talent) and 100mp5 while not casting. What spirit tap does is double
your spirit (thus your spirit regen) to 60mp5 while casting and 200mp5
while not casting. And then, grant you a bonus of 50% of your
(doubled) spirit regen while casting. So your total regen becomes,
under spirit tap:
160mp5 while casting,
200mp5 while not casting.
So over 15 seconds, spirit tap nets you 390 mana if you keep casting
spells, and only 300 mana if you stop casting spells.

Actually, in order to let spirit tap get the most mana back as
possible, you need to keep pulling, and never exit the five seconds
rule. Of course, that also means your mana consumption will be higher.
But that also mean you'll kill more mobs, and be under spirit tap more
often. And as pointed out, with meditation and spirit tap, your mana
regen while casting is superior to your normal mana regen outside of
the FSR. So it's a win/win deal.

Whatever your spec, if you have spirit tap and meditation, keep
pulling. There's no benefit from letting spirit tap run its course,
except the pleasure of watching a blue bar fill up a bit at double the
normal rate.
 >> Stay informed about: Resillence...