Anyone try Dwarf Fortress?

"Jan Hyde (VB MVP)" <StellaDrinker.RemoveThis@REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> wrote
> "Magnate" <not.RemoveThis@receiving.here>'s wild thoughts were released
>><richardhutnik.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>> I found this via Gamasutra site:
>>> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php
>>> http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/contact.html
>>>
>>> Looks excellent, although it uses ASCII graphics. Anyone happen to
>>> try it?
>>
>>I'd be interested in comparisons with other roguelikes. I'm chiefly an
>>Angband player, but I've recently tried ADoM (not great) and Crawl (like
>>it
>>a lot - getting really into it). Would DF appeal to someone who likes
>>roguelikes in general (and actually prefers ASCII to tiles)?
>
> ADOM... not great...
>
> I love that game, what didn't you like about it?

Well, to be fair I didn't give it very long - only a couple of hours. My
basic disappointment was the non-random nature of the world: every time I
died (which was often, due to the second problem I'll come on to in a bit) I
restarted in exactly the same place, doing exactly the same things. There is
a town, and some shops, and a "newbie dungeon", and you do them all in the
same order, and I could see that getting more and more annoying as I died
further into the game.

The other problem, which turned the first from an irritation to a
deal-breaker, was the lack of feedback. I kept dying to the same causes
because it seemed impossible to learn why I had died: was it just bad luck
that I didn't do enough damage and he got a couple of lucky big hits, or was
I nowhere near able to take him on and should have run? In Angband you can
learn the answer to those questions fairly quickly: you can get quite a way
into the game in a couple of hours (10 levels or so). In ADoM I didn't get
beyond the first dungeon level (second, maybe) and it just felt frustrating.

I'm almost certainly judging it too harshly, because I've been playing
roguelikes for a long time and expect to be able to learn their mechanics
quickly. This is what happened with Crawl: I loaded it up, lost about half a
dozen characters in their first few levels, and then by the two-hour mark I
was regularly getting to cl 9 or 10 because I had learned about what I could
survive and what not. It bugged me that ADoM didn't enable me to learn that,
but I'm sure I will go back to it one day and invest a little more time to
see if I can learn enough to enjoy it.

CC

"Magnate" <not DeleteThis @receiving.here>'s wild thoughts were released
on Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:04:11 GMT bearing the following
fruit:

>"Jan Hyde (VB MVP)" <StellaDrinker DeleteThis @REMOVE.ME.uboot.com> wrote
>> "Magnate" <not DeleteThis @receiving.here>'s wild thoughts were released
>>><richardhutnik DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>> I found this via Gamasutra site:
>>>> http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3549/interview_the_making_of_dwarf_.php
>>>> http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/contact.html
>>>>
>>>> Looks excellent, although it uses ASCII graphics. Anyone happen to
>>>> try it?
>>>
>>>I'd be interested in comparisons with other roguelikes. I'm chiefly an
>>>Angband player, but I've recently tried ADoM (not great) and Crawl (like
>>>it
>>>a lot - getting really into it). Would DF appeal to someone who likes
>>>roguelikes in general (and actually prefers ASCII to tiles)?
>>
>> ADOM... not great...
>>
>> I love that game, what didn't you like about it?
>
>Well, to be fair I didn't give it very long - only a couple of hours. My
>basic disappointment was the non-random nature of the world:

I found that odd at first but dungeons are random (with the
exception of a few levels). There is also the infinite
dungeon which some people use to get some old style play.

>every time I
>died (which was often, due to the second problem I'll come on to in a bit) I
>restarted in exactly the same place, doing exactly the same things. There is
>a town, and some shops, and a "newbie dungeon", and you do them all in the
>same order, and I could see that getting more and more annoying as I died
>further into the game.

There is more to do at the start and the newbie dungeon can
be one of two depending on the path you take. On is harder
than the other.

>The other problem, which turned the first from an irritation to a
>deal-breaker, was the lack of feedback. I kept dying to the same causes
>because it seemed impossible to learn why I had died: was it just bad luck
>that I didn't do enough damage and he got a couple of lucky big hits, or was
>I nowhere near able to take him on and should have run? In Angband you can
>learn the answer to those questions fairly quickly: you can get quite a way
>into the game in a couple of hours (10 levels or so). In ADoM I didn't get
>beyond the first dungeon level (second, maybe) and it just felt frustrating.

Ah, well there could be several reasons for that but I won't
bore you; there are indications (usually depth), one
particular dungeon gets very dangerous very quickly and some
people play the game just to try and survive that one place
(it's optional to go there)

>I'm almost certainly judging it too harshly, because I've been playing
>roguelikes for a long time and expect to be able to learn their mechanics
>quickly. This is what happened with Crawl: I loaded it up, lost about half a
>dozen characters in their first few levels, and then by the two-hour mark I
>was regularly getting to cl 9 or 10 because I had learned about what I could
>survive and what not. It bugged me that ADoM didn't enable me to learn that,
>but I'm sure I will go back to it one day and invest a little more time to
>see if I can learn enough to enjoy it.

It's a very challenging game. In all the years I've been
playing I've only finished it twice and I must have played
it thousands of times.

There is a FAQ for the game that reveals many of the secrets
that can take years of play (if ever) to figure out on your
own.

It's worth another shot but it will take patience initally.



--
Jan Hyde

https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Jan.Hyde