4E compiled monsters and more

On Mar 19, 10:16 am, Sea Wasp <seawaspObvi... DeleteThis @sgeObviousinc.com>
wrote:
> Hong Ooi wrote:
> > Sea Wasp wrote:
>
> >> Hong Ooi wrote:
>
> >>> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
> >>>> Hong Ooi wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Mar 18, 7:02 am, Keith Davies <keith.dav... DeleteThis @kjdavies.org> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> My KSRD design philosophy, power-wise, is somewhat derived from
> >>>>>> Justin's
> >>>>>> article on expectations.  Every five levels or so should be a step
> >>>>>> up in
> >>>>>> power category.  Normal, Heroic, Superheroic, Demigodlike.  I can
> >>>>>> accept
> >>>>>> that.
>
> >>>>>> A Wiz16 *should* be able to warp reality.
>
> >>>>> Within rigidly predefined limits predicated on game balance, anyway.
>
> >>>>     Still invoking that false god Game Balance. Or rather, the false
> >>>> PERCEPTION of the God Game Balance. You won't find Game Balance in
> >>>> the book, any more than you'll find Jehovah in the Torah or God in
> >>>> the Bible.
>
> >>> This is because game balance is an emergent phenomenon.
>
> >>>> You'll find Game Balance in the play and the players. If the players
> >>>> WANT balance, they'll have it. If they don't, they won't.
>
> >>> Say, aren't you one of those guys who playtested 3E?
>
> >>     Yep. One of those specifically ASKED to playtest, in fact. I
> >> refused the first time.
>
> > Well, you clearly didn't playtest it enough.
>
>         Certainly I did. I'm very happy with the result.

Yes, but you also call balance a false god.

>
>
> >>     3e is overall as good as it could be and still be D&D. Oh, there's
> >> a few other tweaks I might have made, but it's pretty good. I don't
> >> see how 4e can improve on that without being not-D&D, which to me
> >> would be pointless. There's hundreds of other RPGs out there which
> >> have already tried, or are trying, any set of mechanics they're likely
> >> to figure out, and the only area D&D has for an advantage IS its history.
>
> > History is bunk.
>
>         Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Well, isn't it a good thing they're not repeating 3E!
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

On Mar 19, 4:32 am, "Malachias Invictus" <invictuse....RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> "My Conscience" <thatdarnsocknipp....RemoveThis@myheels.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:RDLDj.21084$CD7.7049@newsfe11.phx...
>
> > Del Rio wrote:
>
> >> One thing that seems slightly weird to me is that it *sounds*
> >> like slide is invoked by the player whose turn it is - does
> >> that allow you to decide the movement of other party members?
>
> > I could see some people having far too much fun with this on other party
> > members...
>
> I am willing to bet the party member can choose not to slide.  He probably
> cannot choose the direction of the slide (which is a factor of the Warlord's
> tactical advice, so that makes sense), but he can always choose not to move.
>

I view the situation as analogous to being fireballed by a party
member. A player who keeps doing it risks getting dice thrown at him.
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Tetsubo wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>> Tetsubo wrote:
>>
>>> Sea Wasp wrote:
>>>
>>>> Del Rio wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008 RemoveThis @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
>>>>> Allen Wessels <awessels RemoveThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved
>>>>>> when they should be selling Different and Better and showing why.
>>>>>> The images I get when thinking about combat are more like Big
>>>>>> Trouble in Little China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And I would LOVE a Big Trouble in Little China RPG, enough that
>>>>> I'm already kicking myself for not coming up with the idea years
>>>>> ago...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The game is already out. It's called Feng Shui. It even has a
>>>> character template which clearly draws from Jack Burton: the
>>>> Everyman Hero.
>>>>
>>>> Just don't use the background, if you want to keep it "pure"
>>>> BTiLC. All the mechanics you need are right there. It's one of my
>>>> favorite RPGs of all time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is Feng Shui any good? I mean the RPG, not the concept...
>>>
>>
>> It's one of my favorite games of all time, as I said. That tells
>> you that *I* think it's great. It's one of the games I have to tweak
>> least in order to run it.
>>
>
> Can you just start with the core book or are any supplements a "must
> have"?
>

I don't even know if there ARE any supplements. I never needed any.

Though I wouldn't mind a Feng Shui/Teenagers From Outer Space
conversion chart.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Tetsubo wrote:
> Hong Ooi wrote:
>> On Mar 18, 4:30 pm, Matt Frisch <matus....TakeThisOut@yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi
>>> <h....TakeThisOut@zipworld.com.au>
>>> scribed into the ether:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 18, 5:43 am, Matt Frisch <matus....TakeThisOut@yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi
>>>>> <h....TakeThisOut@zipworld.com.au>
>>>>> scribed into the ether:
>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 17, 1:23 pm, Matt Frisch <matus....TakeThisOut@yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:42:04 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi
>>>>>>> <h....TakeThisOut@zipworld.com.au>
>>>>>>> scribed into the ether:
>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 17, 9:02 am, Allen Wessels <awess....TakeThisOut@EXPUNGEpacbell.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In article <GdWdnaUOT8fKD0DanZ2dnUVZ_ualn....TakeThisOut@comcast.com>,
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tetsubo <tets....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Allen Wessels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One begins to understand and empathize with why royalty from
>>>>>>>>>>> time to
>>>>>>>>>>> time had court jesters tortured and/or executed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The role of the Jester was to tell the King the truth via
>>>>>>>>>> humor and
>>>>>>>>>> verse. He may well be the only person in Court that could do
>>>>>>>>>> that and
>>>>>>>>>> not be executed. In many ways he played the role of Jimney
>>>>>>>>>> Cricket.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Every Jester or Bard walked a fine line.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hong is failing miserably at this if he is the newsgroups
>>>>>>>>>> Jester. The
>>>>>>>>>> joke on D&D players is 4E.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> All jokes wear thin if you overuse them.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, that's what Matt would say.
>>>
>>>>>>> No, I'm just waiting for you to demonstrate the ability to do
>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>> better than me,
>>>
>>>>>> I fail to do a high-pitched voice better than you.
>>>
>>>>>>> since that's about the only claim you've ever made, and yet
>>>>>>> it has never actually materialized.
>>>
>>>>>> Have a generic food metaphor on me.
>>>
>>>>>>> Rather sad, when nobody else has ever seen the one thing you
>>>>>>> claim to be
>>>>>>> good at.
>>>
>>>>>> I've already admitted that you do a high-pitched voice better than
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>> I suppose continuing in this vein can only throw up more things that
>>>>>> you do better than me, but, well, that's your lookout.
>>>
>>>>>>> PS: Piss off, troll.
>>>
>>>>>> Whereas I still do this better than you.
>>>
>>>>> Pathetic.
>>>
>>>> Indeed, that is another thing you do better than me. So that's two
>>>> things so far!
>>>
>>> Add reading comprehension, subtract for your lack thereof.
>>
>>
>> That's THREE things you do better than me!
>>
>>
>>> Still pathetic, Hong. I remember when you at least used to be mildly
>>> entertaining.
>>
>>
>> Tetsubo did this better than you. No, wait, he didn't actually do it
>> better than you.
>
> But then again, I wasn't trying.

Stop trying to make Matt feel bad, or he'll post another thing that he
does better than me.
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Sea Wasp wrote:
> Hong Ooi wrote:
>> On Mar 18, 7:02 am, Keith Davies <keith.dav....RemoveThis@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>>
>>> My KSRD design philosophy, power-wise, is somewhat derived from Justin's
>>> article on expectations. Every five levels or so should be a step up in
>>> power category. Normal, Heroic, Superheroic, Demigodlike. I can accept
>>> that.
>>>
>>> A Wiz16 *should* be able to warp reality.
>>
>>
>> Within rigidly predefined limits predicated on game balance, anyway.
>
> Still invoking that false god Game Balance. Or rather, the false
> PERCEPTION of the God Game Balance. You won't find Game Balance in the
> book, any more than you'll find Jehovah in the Torah or God in the
> Bible.

This is because game balance is an emergent phenomenon.

>You'll find Game Balance in the play and the players. If the
> players WANT balance, they'll have it. If they don't, they won't.

Say, aren't you one of those guys who playtested 3E?
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Hong Ooi wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>> Hong Ooi wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 18, 7:02 am, Keith Davies <keith.dav... DeleteThis @kjdavies.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My KSRD design philosophy, power-wise, is somewhat derived from Justin's
>>>> article on expectations. Every five levels or so should be a step up in
>>>> power category. Normal, Heroic, Superheroic, Demigodlike. I can accept
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> A Wiz16 *should* be able to warp reality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Within rigidly predefined limits predicated on game balance, anyway.
>>
>>
>> Still invoking that false god Game Balance. Or rather, the false
>> PERCEPTION of the God Game Balance. You won't find Game Balance in the
>> book, any more than you'll find Jehovah in the Torah or God in the Bible.
>
>
> This is because game balance is an emergent phenomenon.
>
>> You'll find Game Balance in the play and the players. If the players
>> WANT balance, they'll have it. If they don't, they won't.
>
>
> Say, aren't you one of those guys who playtested 3E?

Yep. One of those specifically ASKED to playtest, in fact. I refused
the first time.

3e is overall as good as it could be and still be D&D. Oh, there's a
few other tweaks I might have made, but it's pretty good. I don't see
how 4e can improve on that without being not-D&D, which to me would be
pointless. There's hundreds of other RPGs out there which have already
tried, or are trying, any set of mechanics they're likely to figure
out, and the only area D&D has for an advantage IS its history.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

In article <47DFAB12.3080307.TakeThisOut@sgeObviousinc.com>,
Sea Wasp <seawaspObvious.TakeThisOut@sgeObviousinc.com> wrote:
>Del Rio wrote:
>> And I would LOVE a Big Trouble in Little China RPG, enough that
>> I'm already kicking myself for not coming up with the idea
>> years ago...
>
> The game is already out. It's called Feng Shui. It even has a
>character template which clearly draws from Jack Burton: the Everyman
>Hero.
>
> Just don't use the background, if you want to keep it "pure" BTiLC.
>All the mechanics you need are right there. It's one of my favorite
>RPGs of all time.

I've heard the name, but never encountered it. I'll track it down.
Thanks.

--
"I know I promised, Lord, never again. But I also know
that YOU know what a weak-willed person I am."
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Sea Wasp wrote:
> Hong Ooi wrote:
>> Sea Wasp wrote:
>>
>>> Hong Ooi wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 18, 7:02 am, Keith Davies <keith.dav....RemoveThis@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My KSRD design philosophy, power-wise, is somewhat derived from
>>>>> Justin's
>>>>> article on expectations. Every five levels or so should be a step
>>>>> up in
>>>>> power category. Normal, Heroic, Superheroic, Demigodlike. I can
>>>>> accept
>>>>> that.
>>>>>
>>>>> A Wiz16 *should* be able to warp reality.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Within rigidly predefined limits predicated on game balance, anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> Still invoking that false god Game Balance. Or rather, the false
>>> PERCEPTION of the God Game Balance. You won't find Game Balance in
>>> the book, any more than you'll find Jehovah in the Torah or God in
>>> the Bible.
>>
>>
>> This is because game balance is an emergent phenomenon.
>>
>>> You'll find Game Balance in the play and the players. If the players
>>> WANT balance, they'll have it. If they don't, they won't.
>>
>>
>> Say, aren't you one of those guys who playtested 3E?
>
> Yep. One of those specifically ASKED to playtest, in fact. I refused
> the first time.

Well, you clearly didn't playtest it enough.

>
> 3e is overall as good as it could be and still be D&D. Oh, there's a
> few other tweaks I might have made, but it's pretty good. I don't see
> how 4e can improve on that without being not-D&D, which to me would be
> pointless. There's hundreds of other RPGs out there which have already
> tried, or are trying, any set of mechanics they're likely to figure out,
> and the only area D&D has for an advantage IS its history.

History is bunk.
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Hong Ooi wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>> Hong Ooi wrote:
>>
>>> Sea Wasp wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hong Ooi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 18, 7:02 am, Keith Davies <keith.dav....TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My KSRD design philosophy, power-wise, is somewhat derived from
>>>>>> Justin's
>>>>>> article on expectations. Every five levels or so should be a step
>>>>>> up in
>>>>>> power category. Normal, Heroic, Superheroic, Demigodlike. I can
>>>>>> accept
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Wiz16 *should* be able to warp reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Within rigidly predefined limits predicated on game balance, anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still invoking that false god Game Balance. Or rather, the false
>>>> PERCEPTION of the God Game Balance. You won't find Game Balance in
>>>> the book, any more than you'll find Jehovah in the Torah or God in
>>>> the Bible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is because game balance is an emergent phenomenon.
>>>
>>>> You'll find Game Balance in the play and the players. If the players
>>>> WANT balance, they'll have it. If they don't, they won't.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Say, aren't you one of those guys who playtested 3E?
>>
>>
>> Yep. One of those specifically ASKED to playtest, in fact. I
>> refused the first time.
>
>
> Well, you clearly didn't playtest it enough.

Certainly I did. I'm very happy with the result.

Thus, I playtested it enough.

>
>>
>> 3e is overall as good as it could be and still be D&D. Oh, there's
>> a few other tweaks I might have made, but it's pretty good. I don't
>> see how 4e can improve on that without being not-D&D, which to me
>> would be pointless. There's hundreds of other RPGs out there which
>> have already tried, or are trying, any set of mechanics they're likely
>> to figure out, and the only area D&D has for an advantage IS its history.
>
>
> History is bunk.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:49:59 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <hong.DeleteThis@zipworld.com.au>
scribed into the ether:

[Hong's Relevant Text Left Unsnipped]
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Sea Wasp wrote:

> Tetsubo wrote:
>
>> Sea Wasp wrote:
>>
>>> Tetsubo wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sea Wasp wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Del Rio wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> <awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008 DeleteThis @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
>>>>>> Allen Wessels <awessels DeleteThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved
>>>>>>> when they should be selling Different and Better and showing
>>>>>>> why. The images I get when thinking about combat are more like
>>>>>>> Big Trouble in Little China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I would LOVE a Big Trouble in Little China RPG, enough that
>>>>>> I'm already kicking myself for not coming up with the idea years
>>>>>> ago...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The game is already out. It's called Feng Shui. It even has a
>>>>> character template which clearly draws from Jack Burton: the
>>>>> Everyman Hero.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just don't use the background, if you want to keep it "pure"
>>>>> BTiLC. All the mechanics you need are right there. It's one of my
>>>>> favorite RPGs of all time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is Feng Shui any good? I mean the RPG, not the concept...
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's one of my favorite games of all time, as I said. That tells
>>> you that *I* think it's great. It's one of the games I have to tweak
>>> least in order to run it.
>>>
>>
>> Can you just start with the core book or are any supplements a
>> "must have"?
>>
>
> I don't even know if there ARE any supplements. I never needed any.
>
> Though I wouldn't mind a Feng Shui/Teenagers From Outer Space
> conversion chart.
>

Well, I've got the latter at least.

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

"Allen Wessels" <awessels DeleteThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...

> I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved when
> they should be selling Different and Better and showing why. The images
> I get when thinking about combat are more like Big Trouble in Little
> China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.

That is funny, because Big Trouble in Little China reminds me of D&D.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

In article <sb6dnUwoxrBD1XzanZ2dnUVZ_oimnZ2d RemoveThis @comcast.com>,
"Malachias Invictus" <invictusebay RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Allen Wessels" <awessels RemoveThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net...
>
> > I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved when
> > they should be selling Different and Better and showing why. The images
> > I get when thinking about combat are more like Big Trouble in Little
> > China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.
>
> That is funny, because Big Trouble in Little China reminds me of D&D.

What? A dungeon delve to rescue captives where a wizard deals with the
weird stuff, you potion up just before combat and the parties do battle?
I don't get that at all.

- Allen
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more