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Since: Feb 26, 2008 Posts: 53
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(Msg. 46) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:19 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)
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On 2008-03-07, Allen Wessels <awessels.TakeThisOut@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
> I think it's telling that they refer to "delves" in the 4e material I've
> seen.
How so?
> Even limiting the comparison to combat situations, 4e is "different".
Agreed. I'm just not convinced that these are bad differences; much of
it sounds, to me, like good differences. Tanking skills allow me to explain
why any monster with an int of 5 or higher isn't just going to kill the wizard
first.
> You can hear the acknowledgement in the podcasts in the tone of the
> speakers' voices, in the strained tone of "you can [make it] do that in
> 4th edition".
I can't really hear tone, so, no, I can't.
I think at this point I'm gonna have to play it to see. So far, most of the
changes I've seen look like improvements to me.
--
Copyright 2008, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam.TakeThisOut@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated! >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 135
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(Msg. 47) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnft3mrv.b9c.usenet-nospam RemoveThis @guild.seebs.net>,
Seebs <usenet-nospam RemoveThis @seebs.net> wrote:
> On 2008-03-07, Allen Wessels <awessels RemoveThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
> > I think it's telling that they refer to "delves" in the 4e material I've
> > seen.
>
> How so?
That even more than just combat, 4e is balanced towards the indoor
and/or underground scenario.
>
> > Even limiting the comparison to combat situations, 4e is "different".
>
> Agreed. I'm just not convinced that these are bad differences; much of
> it sounds, to me, like good differences. Tanking skills allow me to explain
> why any monster with an int of 5 or higher isn't just going to kill the wizard
> first.
In 4e there is less rock/paper/scissors. Everyone contributes to
damange in roughly comparable ways. You take down targets now in order
of least resistance to your attack mode. In 3.5 you had the armor
prodecting the casters counterin the opposing casters etc etc.
> > You can hear the acknowledgement in the podcasts in the tone of the
> > speakers' voices, in the strained tone of "you can [make it] do that in
> > 4th edition".
>
> I can't really hear tone, so, no, I can't.
>
> I think at this point I'm gonna have to play it to see. So far, most of the
> changes I've seen look like improvements to me.
I can understand that. Taken as a feature list, there are many improved
mechanics.
- Allen >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Apr 14, 2004 Posts: 1608
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(Msg. 48) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Allen Wessels <awessels DeleteThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
><ba47a754-4206-499d-9e46-53072ac95d97 DeleteThis @e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> Justisaur <justisaur DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It used to be chickens back in the day. I remember the first time
>> someone came up 1 xp away from leveling, so they bought a chicken
>> (what was it 1cp?) and killed it.
>>
>> - Justisaur
>> or is that "Bag of Rats Part II."
>
> Heh, IOC is was "going to hunt a squirrel".
We always treated it as a gimme. Close enough, it'll be sorted out next
time.
Keith
--
Keith Davies below you, right now: radioactive magma
keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org above you, right now: hard vacuum
keith.davies DeleteThis @gmail.com probably somewhere near you: a product with
http://www.kjdavies.org/ label warning you it is unsafe if misused >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 135
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(Msg. 49) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:38 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <plv3t3l7i9vli0gr1tqgatkhp9q9rb0n3d.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
Ed Chauvin IV <edcfour.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mere moments before death, Allen Wessels <awessels.DeleteThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net>
> hastily scrawled:
>
> >I think that's part of the reason some 4e naysayers are so vehement.
> >Not just because of the change factor, but be cause of their perspection
> >that their kind of fun might not be doable in the new version of the
> >game.
>
> It has been my experience that whatever "your kind of fun" is, it is
> doable with just about every game system ever published. Some of them
> make certain kinds of fun easier (I'm looking at you Aftermath), but
> then some people like filing.
That's an interesting point of view. Only a very small fraction of
groups I've come across find their fun in a variety of games.
And very few realize the fun spots in the grey areas. Even the best of
us can use a little contextual information to indicate areas of interest
in a continuum.
- Allen >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 135
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(Msg. 50) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:39 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnft40ec.ljh.keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org>,
Keith Davies <keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org> wrote:
> Allen Wessels <awessels DeleteThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article
> ><ba47a754-4206-499d-9e46-53072ac95d97 DeleteThis @e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> > Justisaur <justisaur DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It used to be chickens back in the day. I remember the first time
> >> someone came up 1 xp away from leveling, so they bought a chicken
> >> (what was it 1cp?) and killed it.
> >>
> >> - Justisaur
> >> or is that "Bag of Rats Part II."
> >
> > Heh, IOC is was "going to hunt a squirrel".
>
> We always treated it as a gimme. Close enough, it'll be sorted out next
> time.
Well it's like a 1" putt in golf. Everyone assumes it and moves on, but
he still makes the swing.
- Allen >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 135
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(Msg. 51) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:09 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <sJSdnWFQeJKM3E_anZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d.DeleteThis@comcast.com>,
"Malachias Invictus" <invictusebay.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Allen Wessels" <awessels.DeleteThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:awessels-6670FB.16283706032008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> > There is one area that may not be an issue in most campaigns. Since the
> > party spans a very wide variety of alignments, goals, and political
> > afiliations, a certain amount of time is spent on, shall we say,
> > countermeasures?
>
> Heh. That reminds me of the old days.
And that may be part of what the naysayers are wrestling with. A
perceived assult on memories that may not be replicated.
I wonder if there is any kind of ongoing campaign in playtest that's on
the order of several months old.
Demonstrating strong memories not of play sessions but of the ongoing
campaign experience might go a long way to reassuring people that while
those old experience may not be replicated, it isn't just a collectable
minis/CCG.
> > The two mages in the party, a human wizard (CG) (mine) and a drow wizard
> > (CN) another player's cooperate, but there is a perpetual air of vague
> > distrust between them. The drow is married to an draw Evil High
> > Priestess (NPC) and that creates certain issues, not the least of which
> > is that the fact that the party (NPC) Cleric hates her guts.
>
> Good times, sounds like.
Well lets just say there is plenty of dramatic tension in the campaign,
within the party and without.
There is a war with the Lichlords on the horizon and this time they need
to be dealt with instead of being put in a genie bottle made of masonry
and spells.
I wonder how much of this will be doable or likely to be done in 4e?
From what I can see, tight integration of skills and teamwork is going
to be an essential part of combat. In 3.5 you could get away with
leaning on the spellcasters' artillery.
In 4e, if everyone doesn't pull their weight, you just tipped the odds
big time in favor of the monsters.
- Allen >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 135
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(Msg. 52) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <ONydnV4JlapOo0_anZ2dnUVZ_tWtnZ2d.RemoveThis@comcast.com>,
"Malachias Invictus" <invictusebay.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaudoin.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A5A9FA5EA3EBmarcelbeaudoingmailc@130.133.1.4...
> > SPeaking of which, I betcha that would be a nice way to get cheap minis,
> > from DDM players who bought boxes and boxes to get the rare ones...
>
> It is actually the D&D players who usually seek the rare ones (which tend to
> be cool and/or iconic D&D monsters), whereas the DDM players want (DDM)
> combat effective ones.
Absolutely. The players in our group bought a bunch of the randomized
boxes to get the single large random figure. So we have a huge box of
"what the hell is that?"s, and a few nice giants and some smaller
dragons.
- Allen >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 73
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(Msg. 53) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:14 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:02:36 GMT, Keith Davies
<keith.davies RemoveThis @kjdavies.org> wrote:
>Allen Wessels <awessels RemoveThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>> In article
>><ba47a754-4206-499d-9e46-53072ac95d97 RemoveThis @e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> Justisaur <justisaur RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It used to be chickens back in the day. I remember the first time
>>> someone came up 1 xp away from leveling, so they bought a chicken
>>> (what was it 1cp?) and killed it.
>>>
>>> - Justisaur
>>> or is that "Bag of Rats Part II."
>>
>> Heh, IOC is was "going to hunt a squirrel".
>
>We always treated it as a gimme. Close enough, it'll be sorted out next
>time.
Yeah, making it a gimme is better than giving XP for something bogus.
Just "killing something" shouldn't give any XP at all, if it is not
challenging and not a threat and not related to achieving goals.
BP >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Oct 26, 2007 Posts: 73
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(Msg. 54) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:18 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:29:35 GMT, Keith Davies wrote:
>Just checking. I like templates. Quite a bit.
Where are these templates found? Splatbooks?
I just got my 3.5 core books yesterday (well, DMG and MM, the PH is on
order) and had a first look through and am not finding a lot of the
stuff that is regularly discussed on this group. Maybe it's all in the
PH, but doesn't seem like it should be...
BP
(old Basic and AD&D player, just coming back to D&D after long
absence, not wanting to spend lotsa $$$ on splats) >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Mar 08, 2008 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 55) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 135
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(Msg. 56) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:05 am
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <slrnft4prf.b50.dformosa.DeleteThis@localhost.localdomain>,
"David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)" <dformosa.DeleteThis@usyd.edu.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 02:18:06 GMT, Allen Wessels
> <awessels.DeleteThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > That even more than just combat, 4e is balanced towards the indoor
> > and/or underground scenario.
>
> You mean like in Dungeons?
>
Yes. >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Apr 14, 2004 Posts: 1608
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(Msg. 57) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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BP <reply.TakeThisOut@newsgroup.please> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 03:02:36 GMT, Keith Davies
><keith.davies.TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>
>>Allen Wessels <awessels.TakeThisOut@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>>> In article
>>><ba47a754-4206-499d-9e46-53072ac95d97.TakeThisOut@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> Justisaur <justisaur.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It used to be chickens back in the day. I remember the first time
>>>> someone came up 1 xp away from leveling, so they bought a chicken
>>>> (what was it 1cp?) and killed it.
>>>>
>>>> - Justisaur
>>>> or is that "Bag of Rats Part II."
>>>
>>> Heh, IOC is was "going to hunt a squirrel".
>>
>>We always treated it as a gimme. Close enough, it'll be sorted out next
>>time.
>
>
> Yeah, making it a gimme is better than giving XP for something bogus.
>
> Just "killing something" shouldn't give any XP at all, if it is not
> challenging and not a threat and not related to achieving goals.
I can do two of three easily.
"Look out, it's coming right at us!"
*slice* *chop* *crunch*
"There, goal of leveling achieved."
Having trouble with 'challenging'.
Keith
--
Keith Davies below you, right now: radioactive magma
keith.davies.TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org above you, right now: hard vacuum
keith.davies.TakeThisOut@gmail.com probably somewhere near you: a product with
http://www.kjdavies.org/ label warning you it is unsafe if misused >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Apr 14, 2004 Posts: 1608
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(Msg. 58) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:07 pm
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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BP <reply.RemoveThis@newsgroup.please> wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:29:35 GMT, Keith Davies wrote:
>
>>Just checking. I like templates. Quite a bit.
>
> Where are these templates found? Splatbooks?
>
> I just got my 3.5 core books yesterday (well, DMG and MM, the PH is on
> order) and had a first look through and am not finding a lot of the
> stuff that is regularly discussed on this group. Maybe it's all in the
> PH, but doesn't seem like it should be...
There are templates in MM (now mixed in with the rest of the monsters
instead of an appendix at the end, as with MM3.0).
I recommend Advanced Bestiary from Green Ronin. *Full* of templates,
and mostly quite good ones.
Keith
--
Keith Davies below you, right now: radioactive magma
keith.davies.RemoveThis@kjdavies.org above you, right now: hard vacuum
keith.davies.RemoveThis@gmail.com probably somewhere near you: a product with
http://www.kjdavies.org/ label warning you it is unsafe if misused >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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Since: Feb 16, 2008 Posts: 22
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(Msg. 59) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Sep 18, 2006 Posts: 459
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(Msg. 60) Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Allen Wessels" <awessels DeleteThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote in message
news:awessels-1CECF3.00125408032008@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <ONydnV4JlapOo0_anZ2dnUVZ_tWtnZ2d DeleteThis @comcast.com>,
> "Malachias Invictus" <invictusebay DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Marcel Beaudoin" <marcel.beaudoin DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A5A9FA5EA3EBmarcelbeaudoingmailc@130.133.1.4...
>
>> > SPeaking of which, I betcha that would be a nice way to get cheap
>> > minis,
>> > from DDM players who bought boxes and boxes to get the rare ones...
>>
>> It is actually the D&D players who usually seek the rare ones (which tend
>> to
>> be cool and/or iconic D&D monsters), whereas the DDM players want (DDM)
>> combat effective ones.
>
> Absolutely. The players in our group bought a bunch of the randomized
> boxes to get the single large random figure. So we have a huge box of
> "what the hell is that?"s, and a few nice giants and some smaller
> dragons.
Yep. Buying individual minis or small sets on eBay is much better than
buying random packs, if you know what you want.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley >> Stay informed about: |[4E] A podcast interview with Chris Perkins and Sara Girard |
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