A VERY positive review of 4E

On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:38:11 GMT, Keith Davies <keith.davies.TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org>
scribed into the ether:

>Justisaur <justisaur.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm much more interested in other changes to the system such as fights
>> lasting on average 15 rounds.
>
>Did they say that? I missed it.
>
>Though with what I've seen about people getting knocked down multiple
>times per fight, etc., I'm not sure I'd be into 15 rounds of weebles.

In a design article talking about how they revamped the monster listings,
they mentioned that the average monster lives about 4 rounds, so they
wanted to pack them with 4 rounds of useful abilities, and dump the fluff.
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

On Feb 29, 2:14 pm, Allen Wessels <awess....RemoveThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:

> If this thing flops and they kill off the 3rd party market, I don't even
> get a continuing source of ideas I can steal.

*ding* and now you know what they're trying to do. Flop this edition,
kill of the 3rd party market, 5th edition without OGL because "The 3rd
Party market was unable to properly support the game last edition".
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

"Blackheart" <blackheart666_2000.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8746ca8a-1d98-45aa-bd04-a304de6a4a0d@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 29, 2:14 pm, Allen Wessels <awess....RemoveThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:

>> If this thing flops and they kill off the 3rd party market, I don't even
>> get a continuing source of ideas I can steal.

>*ding* and now you know what they're trying to do. Flop this edition,
>kill of the 3rd party market, 5th edition without OGL because "The 3rd
>Party market was unable to properly support the game last edition".

You really like talking out of your ass without the slightest hint of logic
or command of the facts, don't you?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

Blackheart wrote:

> On Feb 29, 2:14 pm, Allen Wessels <awess....RemoveThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>>If this thing flops and they kill off the 3rd party market, I don't even
>>get a continuing source of ideas I can steal.
>
>
> *ding* and now you know what they're trying to do. Flop this edition,
> kill of the 3rd party market, 5th edition without OGL because "The 3rd
> Party market was unable to properly support the game last edition".

It's a self fulfilling prophecy that justifies their intended business
model. It helps their bottom line and harms the hobby. Typical short
sighted American business thinking. Thankfully we still have the 3.5 SRD
and OGL. The gaming community can keep putting out useful material for
ourselves forever.

3.5: The Last D&D Edition.

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

In article <mcednYU5lKkliFTanZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d.DeleteThis@comcast.com>,
Tetsubo <tetsubo.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:

> Blackheart wrote:
>
> > On Feb 29, 2:14 pm, Allen Wessels <awess....DeleteThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>If this thing flops and they kill off the 3rd party market, I don't even
> >>get a continuing source of ideas I can steal.
> >
> >
> > *ding* and now you know what they're trying to do. Flop this edition,
> > kill of the 3rd party market, 5th edition without OGL because "The 3rd
> > Party market was unable to properly support the game last edition".
>
> It's a self fulfilling prophecy that justifies their intended business
> model. It helps their bottom line and harms the hobby. Typical short
> sighted American business thinking. Thankfully we still have the 3.5 SRD
> and OGL. The gaming community can keep putting out useful material for
> ourselves forever.
>
> 3.5: The Last D&D Edition.

So far everything about 4e feels like a low power CCG with figures and a
battlemat. Including the "coolness".

It's a fine game. It just isn't D&D anymore.

I wish I'd seen Bo9S when it came out. That set the stage.

- Allen
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

On Feb 29, 6:19 pm, Justisaur <justis....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 29, 12:05 am, Lorenz.L....RemoveThis@gmx.de wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 28, 9:25 pm, Jim Seymour <nntp....RemoveThis@thentao.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35776
>
> > > --
> > > Jim Seymour
>
> > "... Is it simpler thatn 3.x? Oh hell yes. But it is elegantly simple.
> > Intuitive. ..."
>
> > Okay. Sounds great. I'd love that.
>
> > "...But all the rules work just like every other rule does.
> > They all make sense. ..."
>
> > Yeah...? You said as much, I'm sure there's absolutely no catch.
>
> > "...At first glance there are a couple rule changes that will seem
> > silly. ..."
>
> > At first glance...before you've seen the light...?
>
> > "...The one that crawled up my craw the first session was the fact
> > that
> > diagonal movement counts as just one square. The idea that you
> > could move faster diagonally than you could straight or side to side
> > is retarded. But ..."
>
> > Sorry to interrupt, but *it's retarded*, full stop.
> > Not even deserving a second glance.
>
> It's not a bad idea. It speeds play by warping the field a little.

IMO it's very bad. And it makes me wonder what else
they make simpler and better and blablabla, but which is
simply retarded if you skip he marketing hogwash. :-/

> > Using hexes or rulers (like ...ahem... Warhammer)
> > is simple and non-retarded, and counting diagonals isn't
> > rocket science either.
>
> I too prefer either of those, but it's not a big deal and easily house
> ruled either way.

Ok...

> I really couldn't care less about it, and am
> surprised anyone would be that vehement about it.

The way this fellow on AICN babbled is just annoying.
I bet he's *not* a playtester but a marketing stooge.

LL
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

<Lorenz.Lang.RemoveThis@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:c75ddd00-b1f5-4231-a298-46557adb9aec@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 29, 6:19 pm, Justisaur <justis....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 29, 12:05 am, Lorenz.L....RemoveThis@gmx.de wrote:
>> > On Feb 28, 9:25 pm, Jim Seymour <nntp....RemoveThis@thentao.com> wrote:

>> > "...The one that crawled up my craw the first session was the fact
>> > that
>> > diagonal movement counts as just one square. The idea that you
>> > could move faster diagonally than you could straight or side to side
>> > is retarded. But ..."
>>
>> > Sorry to interrupt, but *it's retarded*, full stop.
>> > Not even deserving a second glance.
>>
>> It's not a bad idea. It speeds play by warping the field a little.
>
> IMO it's very bad.

Why? Is it *really* that critical of an issue? If so, simply keep things
the way they are. Problem solved.

>> I really couldn't care less about it, and am
>> surprised anyone would be that vehement about it.
>
> The way this fellow on AICN babbled is just annoying.

Not to me, it wasn't. He was very enthusiastic, but so what?

> I bet he's *not* a playtester but a marketing stooge.

You are obviously not very familiar with the author.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

Allen Wessels wrote:
> So far everything about 4e feels like a low power CCG with figures and a
> battlemat. Including the "coolness".
>
> It's a fine game. It just isn't D&D anymore.

Gee. That's exactly what I said about the third edition.

--
David
Stardate 8166.1
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

"David Trimboli" <david.TakeThisOut@trimboli.name> wrote in message
news:47c98152$0$5610$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> Allen Wessels wrote:
>> So far everything about 4e feels like a low power CCG with figures and a
>> battlemat. Including the "coolness".
>>
>> It's a fine game. It just isn't D&D anymore.
>
> Gee. That's exactly what I said about the third edition.

....and what countless others said about 2E. All of you were wrong.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "David Trimboli" <david.TakeThisOut@trimboli.name> wrote in message
> news:47c98152$0$5610$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>> Allen Wessels wrote:
>>> So far everything about 4e feels like a low power CCG with figures and a
>>> battlemat. Including the "coolness".
>>>
>>> It's a fine game. It just isn't D&D anymore.
>> Gee. That's exactly what I said about the third edition.
>
> ...and what countless others said about 2E. All of you were wrong.

Hmm. I'm curious, Mal. How far for you would D&D have to go for it
to no longer be D&D? What could they possibly do to it or include in
it that would break your belief and say this is no longer D&D?

--
It's a bit like painted checkers with some die rolls to see which
checker wins. -mdono.
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "David Trimboli" <david.RemoveThis@trimboli.name> wrote in message
> news:47c98152$0$5610$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
>>Allen Wessels wrote:
>>
>>>So far everything about 4e feels like a low power CCG with figures and a
>>>battlemat. Including the "coolness".
>>>
>>>It's a fine game. It just isn't D&D anymore.
>>
>>Gee. That's exactly what I said about the third edition.
>
>
> ...and what countless others said about 2E. All of you were wrong.
>

How they could say that about 2e, when (1) there were no CCGs then,
and (B) when there was no significant change between 2e and 1e, I
don't know.

3e was the distillation of what D&D *could* be, overall. It is the
best game that could be made that still is, in fact, D&D.

1e and 2e are basically little different from the original D&D except
in adding and codifying a lot of things that were more open in the
original; but neither fixes any of the original's flaws, while 3e
fixed a lot of them.

What I've heard of 4e sounds as though it's losing many of the
essential D&D features, which is in the long run a mistake.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

David Trimboli wrote:

> Allen Wessels wrote:
>
>> So far everything about 4e feels like a low power CCG with figures and
>> a battlemat. Including the "coolness".
>>
>> It's a fine game. It just isn't D&D anymore.
>
>
> Gee. That's exactly what I said about the third edition.
>

Except that 3E is (and was) a WHOLE lot more like 2E then 4E is like
3E. Not to mention that 2E was vastly broken and 3.5 is a perfectly
solid system that doesn't need replacing.

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E 

Tetsubo wrote:
> David Trimboli wrote:
>
>> Allen Wessels wrote:
>>
>>> So far everything about 4e feels like a low power CCG with figures and
>>> a battlemat. Including the "coolness".
>>>
>>> It's a fine game. It just isn't D&D anymore.
>>
>> Gee. That's exactly what I said about the third edition.
>>
>
> Except that 3E is (and was) a WHOLE lot more like 2E then 4E is like
> 3E. Not to mention that 2E was vastly broken and 3.5 is a perfectly
> solid system that doesn't need replacing.

Oh, yes. That must've been exactly what I meant. How good of you to
point that out for me!

--
David
Stardate 8166.6
 >> Stay informed about: A VERY positive review of 4E