Khazar's decks anyone ?

Orpheus ha scritto:

> I read somewhere here that there were a few succesful KD decks around. Could
> anyone show me decklists ? And by succesful, I mean something actually as
> good as a straightforward bleed deck, even if it requires more setup...
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Orpheus, unofficial Shemti model.

Hi,

This is a decklist I put together when LotN was released. It focuses
on burning others' minions rather than (or along with) yours. I
haven't
had the occasion to try it out yet, so I definitely can't define it
"successful"...

Theory: rush with Giovanni weenies and diablerize vampires
(getting possibly burned in the Blood HUnt) to put counters
on Khazar's Diary. Then swarm your prey to death with the
summoned wraiths while rushing keeps your predator in check.

Foreseen practice: Too few Diaries to reliably get one at
the beginning of the game. Problematic blood management.
Insufficient card cycling.

------------------------------------------------------------
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 6 average: 4.25
------------------------------------------------------------

1x Accorri Giovanni 6 DOM POT ani nec Giovanni:5
1x Benedict Giovanni, 6 FOR POT cel dom nec Giovanni:4
1x Francis Milliner 6 NEC POT pre vic Giovanni:4
1x Donatello Giovanni 5 DOM aus pot pre Giovanni:4
1x Gianmaria Giovanni 5 POT dom nec obt Giovanni:5
1x Margaret Milliner 5 dom for nec pot pre Giovanni:4
1x Primo Giovanni 4 dom nec pot Giovanni:4
1x Thomasso Ghiberti 4 NEC pot Giovanni:4
1x Almodo Giovanni 3 dom pot Giovanni:4
1x Nunzio Giovanni 3 nec pot Giovanni:4
1x Cristobal Ghiberti 2 nec Giovanni:4
1x Eric Milliner 2 pot Giovanni:5


Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------

Action [22]
6x Bum's Rush
1x Graverobbing
5x Harass
7x Khazar's Diary (Endless Night)
1x Possession
2x Sudario Refraction

Action Modifier [8]
2x Call of the Hungry Dead
3x Empowering the Puppet King
3x Shroudsight

Action Modifier/Reaction [3]
3x Spectral Divination

Ally [1]
1x Tye Cooper

Combat [37]
4x Amaranth
2x Dead Hand
6x Disarm
10x Immortal Grapple
5x Slam
6x Torn Signpost
4x Undead Strength

Master [10]
1x Frontal Assault
1x Haven Uncovered
1x Jake Washington (Hunter)
1x Potence
1x Powerbase: Cape Verde
5x Vessel

Reaction [9]
5x Deflection
4x On the Qui Vive
------------------------------------------------------------

Ciao ciao,
Emiliano
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

On Feb 6, 2:43 am, Emiliano Imeroni <emiliano.imer....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Orpheus ha scritto:
>
> > I read somewhere here that there were a few succesful KD decks around. Could
> > anyone show me decklists ? And by succesful, I mean something actually as
> > good as a straightforward bleed deck, even if it requires more setup...
>
> > Thanks.
> > --
> > Orpheus, unofficial Shemti model.
>
> Hi,
>
> This is a decklist I put together when LotN was released. It focuses
> on burning others' minions rather than (or along with) yours. I
> haven't
> had the occasion to try it out yet, so I definitely can't define it
> "successful"...
>
> Theory: rush with Giovanni weenies and diablerize vampires
> (getting possibly burned in the Blood HUnt) to put counters
> on Khazar's Diary. Then swarm your prey to death with the
> summoned wraiths while rushing keeps your predator in check.
>
> Foreseen practice: Too few Diaries to reliably get one at
> the beginning of the game. Problematic blood management.
> Insufficient card cycling.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 6 average: 4.25
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 1x Accorri Giovanni       6  DOM POT ani nec       Giovanni:5
> 1x Benedict Giovanni,     6  FOR POT cel dom nec   Giovanni:4
> 1x Francis Milliner       6  NEC POT pre vic       Giovanni:4
> 1x Donatello Giovanni     5  DOM aus pot pre       Giovanni:4
> 1x Gianmaria Giovanni     5  POT dom nec obt       Giovanni:5
> 1x Margaret Milliner      5  dom for nec pot pre   Giovanni:4
> 1x Primo Giovanni         4  dom nec pot           Giovanni:4
> 1x Thomasso Ghiberti      4  NEC pot               Giovanni:4
> 1x Almodo Giovanni        3  dom pot               Giovanni:4
> 1x Nunzio Giovanni        3  nec pot               Giovanni:4
> 1x Cristobal Ghiberti     2  nec                   Giovanni:4
> 1x Eric Milliner          2  pot                   Giovanni:5
>

Lorrie Dunsirn might be worth using if you think you can afford the
pool cost to rush with her. With a single Immortal Grapple played she
can tear people up in combat.

> Library [90 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Action [22]
>   6x Bum's Rush
>   1x Graverobbing
>   5x Harass
>   7x Khazar's Diary (Endless Night)

7 is probably ok to see one before you burn a vampire. You only have 4
Amaranth, so its quiet likely you can just leave someone in torpor for
a little while if you don't have a diary in play yet. If you can find
room to go to 8, that would be better.

>   1x Possession

I don't think Possession is very good at inferior nec and very few of
your guys have NEC. On the other hand, Daemonic Possession is still
good at inf nec and even if you can't get good use out of one of their
guys you can always use them to diablerize.

>   2x Sudario Refraction
>
> Action Modifier [8]
>   2x Call of the Hungry Dead
>   3x Empowering the Puppet King
>   3x Shroudsight

I'm not sure about Shroudsight. It might be better to just play 3 more
copies of whatever cards you plan to recycle with it. I guess I should
test it to see. Please let us know your opinion of it if you ever play
it.

>
> Action Modifier/Reaction [3]
>   3x Spectral Divination
>
> Ally [1]
>   1x Tye Cooper

I think you'll want some more allies, even if you plan to discard most
of them. Once you get the diary activated, if you oust your prey, any
of his vamps you turned into wraiths will be removed from the game
when they die. You'll want a reliable source of targets to turn into
wraiths every turn. I guess with a few burned vamps of your prey, a
couple of your own to blood hunts and a few of your predator's there
might be enough targets to get by.

>
> Combat [37]
>   4x Amaranth
>   2x Dead Hand
>   6x Disarm
>   10x Immortal Grapple
>   5x Slam
>   6x Torn Signpost
>   4x Undead Strength

I think you are running a lot of strikes. Especially if the plan is do
more damage, Disarm. If you are planning to beat the pulp out of them,
its probably an ok number. I would swap out the 4 Undead Strength for
other combat cards. Maybe +1 Amaranth, +1 Disarm, +2 Fake Out.

>
> Master [10]
>   1x Frontal Assault
>   1x Haven Uncovered
>   1x Jake Washington (Hunter)
>   1x Potence

I don't see this changing much and can probably be something more
useful.

>   1x Powerbase: Cape Verde
>   5x Vessel

Unless you really want to burn Blood Dolls (but you can rush the Blood
Doll) or want protection from other player's Vessels, I don't think
this deck needs the trifle advantage when running only 10 masters and
can run Blood Doll instead (or mix it up).

>
> Reaction [9]
>   5x Deflection
>   4x On the Qui Vive
> ------------------------------------------------------------

Its nice to see a fighty build, instead of the I let my stuff die to
get counters. I hope it works out.

Later,
~Rehlow
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

>
> > Have Julius recruit the Cry Wolfs. Heads you win, tails they lose!
>
> julius seem hot for diary deck
>
> what about traped/zip gun/thin blood/mumify [AWERSOME!] julius/jake
> with haven uncovered[as you can sacrafice many minions and maybe even
> torp someone ?

That's the deck librarian used in JOL:Quick48, more or less. It
worked almost as well as you'd think. Used Tupdogs for bonus ashheap
fodder.

If I could find a way to shoehorn a Julius/Patrizia Cry Wolf/Khazar/
Undue Influence deck, that would be something.
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

crispyfloss wrote:
>>> Have Julius recruit the Cry Wolfs. Heads you win, tails they lose!
>> julius seem hot for diary deck
>>
>> what about traped/zip gun/thin blood/mumify [AWERSOME!] julius/jake
>> with haven uncovered[as you can sacrafice many minions and maybe even
>> torp someone ?
>
> That's the deck librarian used in JOL:Quick48, more or less. It
> worked almost as well as you'd think. Used Tupdogs for bonus ashheap
> fodder.
>
> If I could find a way to shoehorn a Julius/Patrizia Cry Wolf/Khazar/
> Undue Influence deck, that would be something.

Heh, I'm trying it in other games, minus the Tupdogs and some of the
allies, and added about 4 more Khazars and a combat package (WWS +
Target Vitals). It's working better, but not great.

best-

chris

--
Super Fun Cards
http://stores.ebay.com/superfuncards/
auctions DeleteThis @superfuncards.com
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

On 6 Feb, 19:13, Rehlow <newsgr....DeleteThis@rehlow.com> wrote:

<snip>

>
> Its nice to see a fighty build, instead of the I let my stuff die to
> get counters. I hope it works out.
>
> Later,
> ~Rehlow

Thanks a lot for the good advice! I'll try and build the deck
with some of the modifications you suggest... we'll
see what happens.

Ciao,
Emiliano
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

On Feb 5, 11:57 am, Jozxyqk wrote:
> Orpheus wrote:
> > I read somewhere here that there were a few succesful KD decks around. Could
> > anyone show me decklists ? And by succesful, I mean something actually as
> > good as a straightforward bleed deck, even if it requires more setup...
>
> One of them just won the New England Regional Qualifier.
> Stay tuned for Ben Swainbank's entry into the TWDA.

I've been toying with a Khazar's deck for a couple of months now,
which is based on exactly the same concept as Ben's (and
coincidentally baptized with the same name!). The main differences
between both decks are:

1) I'm using group 4/5 vampires - although groups 2/3 are obviously
better. I did this just because I wanted to play for a while with the
new vamps and get to know them. I planned to switch to 2/3 if I ever
thought the deck would be tournament viable, so I could reliably use
Deflections - and Ben's tournament win confirmed this is the way to go
(thanks, Ben!).

2) I used Shroudsights. First, because I thought I had few Khazar's to
begin with (I started with . Second, because I thought they were a
good idea (and they actually helped me on occasion). But reading
people's comments and decklists I realized I should probably just
ditch them.

3) Ben's deck adds support to the ally block angle. I was also
planning to do that if I ever took the deck to a competitive
environment, but I was not sure about what to take out. Now I know.

I have had good success with this deck. It's has won most of the
tables I have played and looks dominating while doing so. On other
occasions, though, it dies horribly to simple things such as a Raven
Spy and/or an intercept location - as others have already pointed out.

Here is the current decklist.

Deck Name : Dear Diary
Author : Clément

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 5 average: 3.42
------------------------------------------------------------

2x Thomasso Ghiberti 4 NEC pot Giovanni:4
2x Cristobal Ghiberti 2 nec Giovanni:4
1x Gianmaria Giovanni 5 POT dom nec obt Giovanni:5
1x Margaret Milliner 5 dom for nec pot pre Giovanni:4
1x Kay Polerno 4 dom nec pro Giovanni:5
1x Primo Giovanni 4 dom nec pot Giovanni:4
1x Almodo Giovanni 3 dom pot Giovanni:4
1x Nunzio Giovanni 3 nec pot Giovanni:4
1x Stephen Milliner 3 nec pre Giovanni:5
1x Eric Milliner 2 pot Giovanni:5

Library [70 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------

Action [11]
11x Khazar's Diary (Endless Night)

Action Modifier [14]
7x Call of the Hungry Dead
1x Shroud Mastery
6x Shroudsight

Action Modifier / Combat [3]
3x Breath of Thanatos

Action Modifier/Reaction [7]
7x Spectral Divination

Ally [16]
1x Brigitte Gebauer (Wraith)
1x Felix "Fix" Hessian (Wraith)
2x Leonardo, Mortician
1x Mylan Horseed (Goblin)
1x Scapelli, The Family "Mechanic"
8x Shambling Hordes
1x Tye Cooper
1x Vagabond Mystic

Equipment [1]
1x Sargon Fragment, The

Master [18]
3x Acquired Ventrue Assets
1x Barrens, The
3x Blood Doll
1x Creepshow Casino
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Morgue Hunting Ground
2x Path of Bone, The
5x Vessel

Abraço,

Luiz Mello
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

On Feb 7, 9:29 am, "Clément" <lcmello.lis....DeleteThis@terra.com.br> wrote:

>
> I've been toying with a Khazar's deck for a couple of months now,
> which is based on exactly the same concept as Ben's (and
> coincidentally baptized with the same name!). The main differences
> between both decks are:
>
> 1) I'm using group 4/5 vampires - although groups 2/3 are obviously
> better. I did this just because I wanted to play for a while with the
> new vamps and get to know them. I planned to switch to 2/3 if I ever
> thought the deck would be tournament viable

I did the same thing. My initial version was with the new kids in 4/5.
Then the tournament came and I switched to 2/3 since it was just plain
better for nec/dom.

> 2) I used Shroudsights.

Yeah, the play a card-to-get-back-a-card cards never make much sense
to me in a game with no card limits. Sudario is pretty hot though.

>
> 3) Ben's deck adds support to the ally block angle.

Really important both for defense and to get your allies burned.

> I have had good success with this deck. It's has won most of the
> tables I have played and looks dominating while doing so. On other
> occasions, though, it dies horribly to simple things such as a Raven
> Spy and/or an intercept location - as others have already pointed out.
>

Round 2 at NERQ my prey was weenie animalism (played by Scott Gomes).
I got Unmasking up early enough to hold him to 1 Raven Spy. But he was
crushing me. I had no predator pressure. So I was able to hang in long
enough to get Khazar's off -- in part by burning my own torporized
vamps. In the endgame, we both ran out of library, at which point my
Khazar's deck was much stronger.

-Ben Swainbank
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

On Feb 7, 2:32 pm, Ben Swainbank wrote:
> On Feb 7, 9:29 am, "Clément" wrote:
>
>
> > 2) I used Shroudsights.
>
> Yeah, the play a card-to-get-back-a-card cards never make much sense
> to me in a game with no card limits.

Shroudsight is kind of interesting at NEC, that allows you to choose
which card played during the action you will get back.

But, then again, it's all about how fast you get the 7 counters on the
Diary. I now realize I might be better off playing more Diaries, or
stealth.

> Sudario is pretty hot though.

I'm not very comfortable with Sudario's randomness, but I definitely
should give it a try as I keep hearing how good it is.

> > 3) Ben's deck adds support to the ally block angle.
>
> Really important both for defense and to get your allies burned.

More often than not, my allies are there to be discarded and come back
as wraiths. I recruit only those that might be helpful or necessary
according to the situation - Leonardo for bloating, Hordes for
backrushing/blocking, Tye Cooper for tyecooperness etc.

But yeah, The Unmasking is too hot not to be there. The main reason is
that I own only one and it's in another deck, but I will pack it if I
play in a tournament (where more reliable defense will be badly
needed). Same for Carlton.

Thanks for the comments and congrats on the win.

Abraço,

Luiz Mello
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

Just to be sure : if a Unique vampire already controlled is influenced by
the same methuselah and burns, does that trigger the Khazar's Diary ?

Same question with recruiting a Unique ally you already control.
--
Orpheus, unofficial Shemti model.
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

Orpheus wrote:
> Just to be sure : if a Unique vampire already controlled is influenced by
> the same methuselah and burns, does that trigger the Khazar's Diary ?

Judging from the Sonja blue contesting rulings, I'd say the incoming
vampire never actually makes it into play, and so wouldn't give Khazar's
a counter.

> Same question with recruiting a Unique ally you already control.

That's cheating.

Unless there's some way to 'accidentally' recruit a unique ally you
already control....?


--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

Salem wrote:
> Orpheus wrote:
>> Just to be sure : if a Unique vampire already controlled is influenced by
>> the same methuselah and burns, does that trigger the Khazar's Diary ?
>
> Judging from the Sonja blue contesting rulings, I'd say the incoming
> vampire never actually makes it into play, and so wouldn't give Khazar's
> a counter.

Correct.

>> Same question with recruiting a Unique ally you already control.
>
> That's cheating.
>
> Unless there's some way to 'accidentally' recruit a unique ally you
> already control....?

Correct.
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ? 

On 5 fév, 14:38, "Orpheus" <orpheus....RemoveThis@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote:
> I read somewhere here that there were a few succesful KD decks around. Could
> anyone show me decklists ? And by succesful, I mean something actually as
> good as a straightforward bleed deck, even if it requires more setup...
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Orpheus, unofficial Shemti model.

Read VEKN France ^^

Arthur
 >> Stay informed about: Khazar's decks anyone ?