Gurps Babylon 5

On Jan 17, 11:25 pm, David Johnston <da....TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote:
> The spells, their costs and their framework weren't designed in any
> systematic fashion. It's guesswork. Certain spells like Reverse
> Missiles or Utter Dome are infinitely powerful while other spells that
> are no cheaper are far less formidable.

You can say the same thing of powers with Enhancements and
Limitations. Several of these powers are ridiculously cheap compared
to other things you can buy with 50 points (and compared to other
powers in the same document):

http://www.geocities.com/atreyu_hibiki/GURPSAdvantages.pdf

-Max
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[sorry if this is double-posting. I don't see my post showing up.]

On Jan 17, 11:25 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:09:57 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
> <cop....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 18, 1:08 am, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:09:58 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
> >> <cop....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 18, 12:02 am, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:

> >> >> That's why they kept
> >> >> magery for the people for whom balance isn't that important.
>
> >> >And you know this how?
>
> >> Because Magery isn't all that balanced even internally.
>
> >I'm interested as to why you think this.
>
> >Brandon
>
> The spells, their costs and their framework weren't designed in any
> systematic fashion. It's guesswork. Certain spells like Reverse
> Missiles or Utter Dome are infinitely powerful while other spells that
> are no cheaper are far less formidable.

You can say the same thing of powers created with Enhancements and
Limitations. Many of these powers are far more powerful than most
other things you could do with 50 points, including other powers
within the same document:

http://www.geocities.com/atreyu_hibiki/GURPSAdvantages.pdf

Compare "Calming Influence" or "Totally Abusive Assassination
Special" (incredibly powerful, as good as "Reverse Missiles") with
"Arm Blades" or "Steal Face" (meh). In this poster's humble opinion,
expecting a system to balance your game for you is folly, because it
won't. Ultimately it's about what abilities the players and GM want to
allow in the game.

-Max
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On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:43:31 -0800, "Robert A. Woodward"
<robertaw DeleteThis @drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <jcmno310etogkfpdms09nsn6da2umb52lj DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
> David Johnston <david DeleteThis @block.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0600, Zan Lynx <zlynx DeleteThis @acm.org> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:53:34 -0500, Night-hunter wrote:
>> >
>> >[cut]
>> >> And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make reference to
>> >> actual star charts, has anyone attempted to create such an animal? I.E.
>> >> map Beta Colony to a theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?
>> >
>> >I think Beta Colony's star is described in the short story Dreamweaver's
>> >Dilemma. I don't have my copy available to check though.
>>
>> I think Beta is around Alpha Centauri B actually. Hence the name.
>
>I think Beta Colony is further out than that (my impression from
>"Dreamweaver's Dilemma" was that it was 24 light years away from
>Earth - "news that was 24 years old").

That would probably make it Beta Hydri although that's a subgiant.
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:03:29 GMT, David Johnston <david.RemoveThis@block.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:43:31 -0800, "Robert A. Woodward"
><robertaw.RemoveThis@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <jcmno310etogkfpdms09nsn6da2umb52lj.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
>> David Johnston <david.RemoveThis@block.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0600, Zan Lynx <zlynx.RemoveThis@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:53:34 -0500, Night-hunter wrote:
>>> >
>>> >[cut]
>>> >> And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make reference to
>>> >> actual star charts, has anyone attempted to create such an animal? I.E.
>>> >> map Beta Colony to a theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?
>>> >
>>> >I think Beta Colony's star is described in the short story Dreamweaver's
>>> >Dilemma. I don't have my copy available to check though.
>>>
>>> I think Beta is around Alpha Centauri B actually. Hence the name.
>>
>>I think Beta Colony is further out than that (my impression from
>>"Dreamweaver's Dilemma" was that it was 24 light years away from
>>Earth - "news that was 24 years old").
>
>That would probably make it Beta Hydri although that's a subgiant.

There are other stars 24ly from Earth - 107 Piscis and Gliese 570, to
name two. And Vega is 25ly from Earth...

--
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"There's always somebody who's going to hate your work, no matter
how good it is. DON'T LET HIM CHASE YOU AWAY FROM WRITING, BECAUSE
THAT WAY HE WINS." - Robert M. Schroeck, 18 July 2006
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:29:20 GMT, robkelk RemoveThis @deadspam.com (Rob Kelk)
wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:03:29 GMT, David Johnston <david RemoveThis @block.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:43:31 -0800, "Robert A. Woodward"
>><robertaw RemoveThis @drizzle.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <jcmno310etogkfpdms09nsn6da2umb52lj RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
>>> David Johnston <david RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0600, Zan Lynx <zlynx RemoveThis @acm.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:53:34 -0500, Night-hunter wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >[cut]
>>>> >> And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make reference to
>>>> >> actual star charts, has anyone attempted to create such an animal? I.E.
>>>> >> map Beta Colony to a theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?
>>>> >
>>>> >I think Beta Colony's star is described in the short story Dreamweaver's
>>>> >Dilemma. I don't have my copy available to check though.
>>>>
>>>> I think Beta is around Alpha Centauri B actually. Hence the name.
>>>
>>>I think Beta Colony is further out than that (my impression from
>>>"Dreamweaver's Dilemma" was that it was 24 light years away from
>>>Earth - "news that was 24 years old").
>>
>>That would probably make it Beta Hydri although that's a subgiant.
>
>There are other stars 24ly from Earth - 107 Piscis and Gliese 570, to
>name two.

Neither of them are named "Beta".
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

In article <81n5p39jblbl7vr9vv1o8i34lvcnrmft5j.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
David Johnston <david.TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:29:20 GMT, robkelk.TakeThisOut@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk)
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:03:29 GMT, David Johnston <david.TakeThisOut@block.net>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:43:31 -0800, "Robert A. Woodward"
> >><robertaw.TakeThisOut@drizzle.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <jcmno310etogkfpdms09nsn6da2umb52lj.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
> >>> David Johnston <david.TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0600, Zan Lynx <zlynx.TakeThisOut@acm.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:53:34 -0500, Night-hunter wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >[cut]
> >>>> >> And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make
> >>>> >> reference to actual star charts, has anyone attempted to
> >>>> >> create such an animal? I.E. map Beta Colony to a
> >>>> >> theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?
> >>>> >
> >>>> >I think Beta Colony's star is described in the short story
> >>>> >Dreamweaver's Dilemma. I don't have my copy available to
> >>>> >check though.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think Beta is around Alpha Centauri B actually. Hence the name.
> >>>
> >>>I think Beta Colony is further out than that (my impression from
> >>>"Dreamweaver's Dilemma" was that it was 24 light years away from
> >>>Earth - "news that was 24 years old").
> >>
> >>That would probably make it Beta Hydri although that's a subgiant.
> >
> >There are other stars 24ly from Earth - 107 Piscis and Gliese 570, to
> >name two.
>
> Neither of them are named "Beta".

I have this vague recollection that Beta Colony was called that
because it was the 2nd extrasolar colony (the first one was
abandoned, failed, disappeared or something).

--
Robert Woodward <robertaw.TakeThisOut@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

"Robert A. Woodward" <robertaw.TakeThisOut@drizzle.com> writes:

> In article <81n5p39jblbl7vr9vv1o8i34lvcnrmft5j.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
> David Johnston <david.TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote:
>
>> >>>I think Beta Colony is further out than that (my impression from
>> >>>"Dreamweaver's Dilemma" was that it was 24 light years away from
>> >>>Earth - "news that was 24 years old").
>> >>
>> >>That would probably make it Beta Hydri although that's a subgiant.
>> >
>> >There are other stars 24ly from Earth - 107 Piscis and Gliese 570, to
>> >name two.
>>
>> Neither of them are named "Beta".
>
> I have this vague recollection that Beta Colony was called that
> because it was the 2nd extrasolar colony (the first one was
> abandoned, failed, disappeared or something).

The First ("Alpha Colony") was colonized before the discovery of
wormholes. It's still there and even prosperous, but not significant
as the journey from closest wormhole opening takes 6 months in STL.

It was an offhand remark in one of the books, but I can't remember
which...

--
"Being ignorant is not so much a shame as being unwilling to learn."
--Benjamin Franklin
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:23:42 +0200, Tapio Erola wrote:
[cut]
> The First ("Alpha Colony") was colonized before the discovery of
> wormholes. It's still there and even prosperous, but not significant as
> the journey from closest wormhole opening takes 6 months in STL.

Beta was also colonized before wormholes, which is why its got such a bad
climate and everyone lives underground. They couldn't pick and choose.
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
<wilson.max DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 15, 12:51 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
>wrote:
>> > A power-house like Felice can toss battleships around, but she
>> > doesn't have the finesse for microscopic manipulation. Probably.
>>
>> Telekinesis at a very high level, with low Telekinesis Talent.
>>
>> > It's like throwing out ST and saying, "From now on, just buy up DX."
>>
>> Under the above correction, I don't believe your interpretation is
>> right.
>
>Well, I was specifically pointing out that Talent != 3E power level. I
>agree that Felice (on any PK powerhouse) could be modelled in 4E, or
>at least Felice as she exists at any particular moment. What I don't
>think can be modelled is the character progression, because the 4E
>system is advantage-based instead of skill-based. More in the other
>message.
>
>-Max

Could not Wild Talent (Wild Ability) Powers pp89-90 account for the
development of new powers? True your not putting one or two points
into the new ability (discounting 1/5th rule and limitations) like you
do with a new skill, but it will let a character progress with their
power(s).

If the DM rolls the dice for it, then it progresses at his pace too,
ensuring that "this particulat life threatening situation" does or
does not cause the development of a new ability.
--

Grant
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Jan 21, 2:27 am, All hail Discordia < > wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:58:18 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
> >Well, I was specifically pointing out that Talent != 3E power level. I
> >agree that Felice (on any PK powerhouse) could be modelled in 4E, or
> >at least Felice as she exists at any particular moment. What I don't
> >think can be modelled is the character progression, because the 4E
> >system is advantage-based instead of skill-based. More in the other
> >message.
>
> >-Max
>
> Could not Wild Talent (Wild Ability) Powers pp89-90 account for the
> development of new powers? True your not putting one or two points
> into the new ability (discounting 1/5th rule and limitations) like you
> do with a new skill, but it will let a character progress with their
> power(s).  
>
> If the DM rolls the dice for it, then it progresses at his pace too,
> ensuring that "this particulat life threatening situation" does or
> does not cause the development of a new ability.

I don't own Powers. It's possible that Wild Ability could do what I
want, but probably not because IIRC Wild Talent is still limited-usage
like Luck (I'd prefer creativity to be the limiting factor) and still
advantage-based.

Let me try one more time: GURPS Martial Arts (4E) is a truly excellent
book in my opinion. The new combat options, etc., are presented not as
new advantages or even new skills, but mostly as new techniques for an
existing skill. "Okay, you know how to use a broadsword. One thing you
can do with a broadsword is Counterattack, which means [rules here].
It defaults to broadsword -5, meaning that it's part of learning the
broadsword, but you can specialize in it to buy it up." Now you can
hit someone with your sword with a reduced chance of having them
parry. An alternate way of modeling this would be to have someone buy
an Innate Attack advantage with a Mitigator [requires a sword] and [ST-
based] and [melee attack; hard to parry] and [accessibility: only
against someone who just attacked you], etc. You _could_ do it that
way, and use Wild Talent (Wild Ability) to introduce Counterattack
into the campaign initially, but it just doesn't appeal to me at all
mechanically. It implies all the wrong things about what Counterattack
*is*: a specific way of using a broadsword.

-Max
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Jan 21, 8:20 am, Max Wilson <wilson.... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> parry. An alternate way of modeling this would be to have someone buy
> an Innate Attack advantage with a Mitigator [requires a sword] and [ST-

Yes, yes, I just remembered. Mitigators are only for Disadvantages; I
should be talking about gadgets or something here. I'm sure there are
other details wrong, too. I just want to acknowledge that errors exist
before someone gets distracted from the real point by trying to
correct them.

-Max
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Jan 22, 6:55 am, Jefferson <Jeff_Wilso....RemoveThis@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Max Wilson wrote:
> > Let me try one more time: GURPS Martial Arts (4E) is a truly excellent
> > book in my opinion. The new combat options, etc., are presented not as
> > new advantages or even new skills, but mostly as new techniques for an
> > existing skill. "Okay, you know how to use a broadsword. One thing you
> > can do with a broadsword is Counterattack, which means [rules here].
> > It defaults to broadsword -5, meaning that it's part of learning the
> > broadsword, but you can specialize in it to buy it up." Now you can
> > hit someone with your sword with a reduced chance of having them
> > parry. An alternate way of modeling this would be to have someone buy
> > an Innate Attack advantage with a Mitigator [requires a sword] and [ST-
> > based] and [melee attack; hard to parry] and [accessibility: only
> > against someone who just attacked you], etc. You _could_ do it that
> > way, and use Wild Talent (Wild Ability) to introduce Counterattack
> > into the campaign initially, but it just doesn't appeal to me at all
> > mechanically. It implies all the wrong things about what Counterattack
> > *is*: a specific way of using a broadsword.
>
> So what's the issue with developing techniques to use to use with
> specific advantages?

Ugh. Point sinks. Evil.

Brandon
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

Max Wilson wrote:
> Yeah, that's the mechanic that didn't make any sense to me. Power
> levels were specifically distinguishing between strength and skill.

It's available in GURPS Powers as "Skills for Everyone." Even
without POWERS you can duplicate the effect easily enough with
activation rolls and other limitations.

--
Jefferson
http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
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