Ideas for clandestine G:Traveller campaign

mcv wrote:
> Samuel Penn <sam.RemoveThis@bifrost.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> mcv wrote:
>>> I've got lots of Traveller books with ideas for mercantile and mercenary
>>> campaigns, but I want to do a campaign that's a bit in between and not
>>> quite either of them. I'm thinking Firefly, a rag-tag bunch not quite
>>> succeeding at staying on the right side of the law.
>> [..snip..]
>>
>>> I want the theme to be that the crew tries to go legit and sever their
>>> ties to organised crime, but they need money to repay the loan, or even
>>> just to barely manage to make the interest payments (or their version
>>> of Jabba the Hutt might send bounty hunters after them). I want to give
>>> them some legal jobs, some illegal ones. The illegal ones can (and will)
>>> get them in trouble, but will also make them money, and not making
>>> money will get them in worse trouble.
>> How safe is it to assume that the player's will be agreeable to this?
>> I know that if I tried to run this in my group, they'd probably find the
>> illegal jobs more interesting and would need a really good reason to
>> try and go legit.
>
> That's a very good question. I think the illegal jobs will be more
> interesting, but I don't want them to become hardened, uncaring
> criminals. I need a way to scare them away from too much crime. The
> obvious one here is the law, but the problem there is that a
> confrontation with the law is either not scary enough, or ends in
> incarceration. The safer way is to confront them with the consequences
> of their actions. Show them what crime does, and whose side they're
> really on.
>
>
Let them confront a character like the investigator in Serenity who
gives them a "warning". Also let them hear of another crew who did not
heed the warning to tone down their activities.
And if they still fail to heed the warnings let the chips fall where
they may.


> mcv.
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On 21 Aug 2006 08:47:30 GMT, mcv <mcvmcv.RemoveThis@xs4all.nl> wrote:

>Samuel Penn <sam.RemoveThis@bifrost.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> mcv wrote:
>>> I've got lots of Traveller books with ideas for mercantile and mercenary
>>> campaigns, but I want to do a campaign that's a bit in between and not
>>> quite either of them. I'm thinking Firefly, a rag-tag bunch not quite
>>> succeeding at staying on the right side of the law.
>>
>> [..snip..]
>>
>>> I want the theme to be that the crew tries to go legit and sever their
>>> ties to organised crime, but they need money to repay the loan, or even
>>> just to barely manage to make the interest payments (or their version
>>> of Jabba the Hutt might send bounty hunters after them). I want to give
>>> them some legal jobs, some illegal ones. The illegal ones can (and will)
>>> get them in trouble, but will also make them money, and not making
>>> money will get them in worse trouble.
>>
>> How safe is it to assume that the player's will be agreeable to this?
>> I know that if I tried to run this in my group, they'd probably find the
>> illegal jobs more interesting and would need a really good reason to
>> try and go legit.
>
>That's a very good question. I think the illegal jobs will be more
>interesting, but I don't want them to become hardened, uncaring
>criminals. I need a way to scare them away from too much crime. The
>obvious one here is the law, but the problem there is that a
>confrontation with the law is either not scary enough, or ends in
>incarceration. The safer way is to confront them with the consequences
>of their actions. Show them what crime does, and whose side they're
>really on.
>
>
>mcv.


you want to sort out what side they are on try having them transport
some women to a remote location. when they arrive they discover the
women are to be used to make snuff films etc. there are some guys who
wander past the line a bit and there are some just plain monsters out
there.
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mcv wrote:

> Samuel Penn <sam.TakeThisOut@bifrost.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> mcv wrote:
>>> I want the theme to be that the crew tries to go legit and sever their
>>> ties to organised crime,

>> How safe is it to assume that the player's will be agreeable to this?
>> I know that if I tried to run this in my group, they'd probably find the
>> illegal jobs more interesting and would need a really good reason to
>> try and go legit.
>
> That's a very good question. I think the illegal jobs will be more
> interesting, but I don't want them to become hardened, uncaring
> criminals. I need a way to scare them away from too much crime. The
> obvious one here is the law, but the problem there is that a
> confrontation with the law is either not scary enough, or ends in
> incarceration. The safer way is to confront them with the consequences
> of their actions. Show them what crime does, and whose side they're
> really on.

The problem I've found, is that players are nearly always willing to
escalate, and risk the consequences of that. Someone swings a fist,
they pull out guns. Someone pulls out a gun, they open up with starship
weapons. Simply arresting PCs (even if it's only going to be a few
nights in a cell, or a fine) can be difficult.


One possibility is that they have another contact (maybe black ops
government agency) who wants to use them for certain operations
where the government needs deniability, but doesn't want people
who have too bad a reputation. They can get money from the criminal
missions, but some cool tech or favours from their black ops contact,
which they wouldn't be able to buy even with lots of money.

This gives them a reason to try and stay away from crime except when
it's really necessary, or at least try very hard not to get caught.
This gives the PCs a carrot to stay good, as well as the stick of
not wanting to get involved in some very nasty stuff (as others
have mentioned, slavery, snuff films etc).

btw, we have played some games similar to what you want to run, and
they have worked. However, every single one of them was Star Wars,
and in each case we had a Jedi in the group. In all other cases,
crime has always seemed more interesting.

--
Be seeing you,
Sam.
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Samuel Penn <sam.TakeThisOut@bifrost.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> mcv wrote:
>> Samuel Penn <sam.TakeThisOut@bifrost.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> mcv wrote:
>>>> I want the theme to be that the crew tries to go legit and sever their
>>>> ties to organised crime,
>
>>> How safe is it to assume that the player's will be agreeable to this?
>>> I know that if I tried to run this in my group, they'd probably find the
>>> illegal jobs more interesting and would need a really good reason to
>>> try and go legit.
>>
>> That's a very good question. I think the illegal jobs will be more
>> interesting, but I don't want them to become hardened, uncaring
>> criminals. I need a way to scare them away from too much crime. The
>> obvious one here is the law, but the problem there is that a
>> confrontation with the law is either not scary enough, or ends in
>> incarceration. The safer way is to confront them with the consequences
>> of their actions. Show them what crime does, and whose side they're
>> really on.
>
> The problem I've found, is that players are nearly always willing to
> escalate, and risk the consequences of that. Someone swings a fist,
> they pull out guns. Someone pulls out a gun, they open up with starship
> weapons. Simply arresting PCs (even if it's only going to be a few
> nights in a cell, or a fine) can be difficult.

How my players react can vary wildly. Usually they take the hint when
armed guards show up, but not always. I suspect the atmosphere of the
setting has a lot to do with it. This is probably very hard to get
just right.

> One possibility is that they have another contact (maybe black ops
> government agency) who wants to use them for certain operations
> where the government needs deniability, but doesn't want people
> who have too bad a reputation. They can get money from the criminal
> missions, but some cool tech or favours from their black ops contact,
> which they wouldn't be able to buy even with lots of money.

Great idea. I was already considering to have a retired S3 operative
in the crew, with the idea that he might give them new contacts or
plothooks later in the campaign. He could be great for somerthing
like this.

The only problem is if I can even make a retired S3 op for the 150 pts
(4th edition) I want to use.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for clandestine G:Traveller campaign 

mcv <mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl> writes:

> Samuel Penn <sam RemoveThis @bifrost.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > One possibility is that they have another contact (maybe black ops
> > government agency) who wants to use them for certain operations
> > where the government needs deniability, but doesn't want people
> > who have too bad a reputation. They can get money from the
> > criminal missions, but some cool tech or favours from their black
> > ops contact, which they wouldn't be able to buy even with lots of
> > money.
>
> Great idea. I was already considering to have a retired S3 operative
> in the crew, with the idea that he might give them new contacts or
> plothooks later in the campaign. He could be great for somerthing
> like this.

This is one of many ways to do it. The general solution is to ensure
that the things they want (more fun adventures, whatever that means)
have social requirements.

The main threat in real-life law is *ultimately* that of physical
force, but long before it gets to that point the costs are *social*:
loss of wealth, loss of access to social amenities, poor reputation
with contacts, patrons, allies, dependents, whatever. Those are
entirely at your command: if you want to reward or punish them for
their relationship with the law, do so through the social structure in
the game.

If you want your players to *enjoy* your manipulations, ensure there
are plenty of rewards showing them the kinds of actions you want to
occur in the game. Those rewards should be social too, because that
way they'll be most logically affected when they get into legal
trouble.

All of this is a natural consequence of wanting a game with tough
choices about legality and the surrounding issues. The law, and its
consequences, are largely social in nature. Fortunately, GURPS gives
you plenty of tools for modelling that in-game.

> The only problem is if I can even make a retired S3 op for the 150
> pts (4th edition) I want to use.

The beauty of it is, the *character* doesn't need to be powerful; he
just needs to be a way of the PCs getting what they want that they
can't easily replace.

Scatter enough of these plot hook NPCs around so that you're not
obviously leading them by the nose. Make it clear that the deeper they
get into hot water, the less access they have to these rewarding
opportunities, and their choices should be clear.

--
\ "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the |
`\ precipitate." -- Steven Wright |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
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Ben Finney <bignose+hates-spam@benfinney.id.au> wrote:
> mcv <mcvmcv RemoveThis @xs4all.nl> writes:
>> Samuel Penn <sam RemoveThis @bifrost.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> > One possibility is that they have another contact (maybe black ops
>> > government agency) who wants to use them for certain operations
>> > where the government needs deniability, but doesn't want people
>> > who have too bad a reputation. They can get money from the
>> > criminal missions, but some cool tech or favours from their black
>> > ops contact, which they wouldn't be able to buy even with lots of
>> > money.
>>
>> Great idea. I was already considering to have a retired S3 operative
>> in the crew, with the idea that he might give them new contacts or
>> plothooks later in the campaign. He could be great for somerthing
>> like this.
>
> This is one of many ways to do it. The general solution is to ensure
> that the things they want (more fun adventures, whatever that means)
> have social requirements.
>
> The main threat in real-life law is *ultimately* that of physical
> force, but long before it gets to that point the costs are *social*:
> loss of wealth, loss of access to social amenities, poor reputation
> with contacts, patrons, allies, dependents, whatever. Those are
> entirely at your command: if you want to reward or punish them for
> their relationship with the law, do so through the social structure in
> the game.

That's a good point. Even if they're not caught, or caught and not
convicted, or convicted but escaped, there will be people who might
recognise them later, and who won't trust them. Loss of contacts,
patrons, reputations, etc. And fines or legal costs, ofcourse.

>> The only problem is if I can even make a retired S3 op for the 150
>> pts (4th edition) I want to use.
>
> The beauty of it is, the *character* doesn't need to be powerful; he
> just needs to be a way of the PCs getting what they want that they
> can't easily replace.
>
> Scatter enough of these plot hook NPCs around so that you're not
> obviously leading them by the nose.

Actually, I wanted to make this guy a PC. Instead of spending a couple
of sessions trying to get the hang of 4th edition and making characters
with little background, that don't fit into the setting, have few
ties binding them together and with no plot hooks to speak of, I figured
I'd make the characters for a change, so we can get going a bit faster.

The S3 scout would be retired (possibly after an injury -- a nice way
to keep the cost of a special forces guy down), but like all ex-scouts,
he's never completely off duty. He's joined up with these free traders
to taste what that kind of life is like, cooperating in anything illegal
as long is it's not going too far (great learning experience; see the
seedy side of the Imperium up close), and because of his background,
if the IISS ever needs someone for subtle yet decisive action of
questionable legality in his area (District 268, most likely), he's
the obvious choice.

I already have some idea about how this would work out: the crew
arrives at a starport, they check if there's any mail for them[1],
and the S3 guy has two letters: a top secret one explaining this
is really important, and a cover story that he can show to the crew.
I'm assuming the S3 guy keeps the IISS up to date about his
whereabouts and the fact that he's joined a free trader of negotiable
morality.


[1] I imagine mail for travellers gets distributed to lots of
starports in their vicinity, but encrypted so that only they can
read it. Moving information is cheap but slow, after all. But if
there's any info on how interstellar mail works in canon, I'd love
to hear more about it.


mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
 >> Stay informed about: Ideas for clandestine G:Traveller campaign 

I ran a very long and successful (everyone always showed up
with snacks to share) game where the players were all
Zhodani spies.

The first couple of episodes involved them crossing over the
border and finding ways to fit into Imperial society.

The players ended up with real life interfering with the game
schedule, but they'd made it as far as Trin.

A second incarnation of the game had them as Imperial agents
from Capital/Core. They ended so paranoid about who was plotting
against the Emperor (everyone) that they were nearly ready for
cutting a deal with the Zhodani for aid.

Both games were a blast. The players sill ask me questions
about 'what was *really* going on.'

M


--
My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone,
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.
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goldman RemoveThis @visi.com wrote:

> I ran a very long and successful (everyone always showed up
> with snacks to share) game where the players were all
> Zhodani spies.
>
> The first couple of episodes involved them crossing over the
> border and finding ways to fit into Imperial society.
>
> The players ended up with real life interfering with the game
> schedule, but they'd made it as far as Trin.
>
> A second incarnation of the game had them as Imperial agents
> from Capital/Core. They ended so paranoid about who was plotting
> against the Emperor (everyone) that they were nearly ready for
> cutting a deal with the Zhodani for aid.
>
> Both games were a blast. The players sill ask me questions
> about 'what was *really* going on.'
>
> M
>
>
I ran a campaign set in the ST:TNG universe, where my party were the
ships officers on a much smaller craft with a mission similar to that of
the Enterprise; they had a crew of 80 instead of the 2000+ that Picard
et al were hypothetically dealing with, and their missions tended to be
on a smaller scale as well.

The reason I bring this up, though, is that this is the only campaign I
can think of, in all my time running games and playing in games, where
the PC's actually stuck to the "good guy" side, tried to abide by the
rules of their society, follow the chain of command and so forth. On
occaision, they would stray, when a conflict developed between the Prime
Directive and doing the Right Thing; moral grey areas.

But normally, in every genre, for most players, the law is something to
get around, leadership within the party is a matter of force if it
exists at all (more likely, if the party cooperates at all, its on a
democratic footing) and even if things don't devolve into "evil" they
certainly involve assuming that the government or leadership of whatever
country or organization the party is nominally in are themselves evil or
stupid, and to be thwarted.

I'm not sure why this worked when nothing else ever has, from fantasy
worlds to Twilight 2000 to Traveller; but something about the Federation
and the way its always been portrayed in the TV shows and films captured
my player's hearts as well as their imaginations, and for one brief
shining (three year long) period, I had some people who I could motivate
without having to throw loot and power into the mix.

Of course, I was screwing with them from the beginning, the captain was
receiving secret help from someone in the administration who she thought
had a crush on her, but he actually despised her and was attempting,
both by manipulation of what assignments the ship was given, and by
misinforming her in those comunications, to mess up her carreer. So
while the Federation was indeed mostly the wonderful shiny thing they
thought it was, there was nonetheless something really screwed up about
what they were being asked to do; they -should- have rebelled!

I just can't leave well enough alone.

Lance
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