Well, that's it, the group's dead.

Christopher Adams wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>> Hmmm. Now here's an idea: What classical monster genres has the World
>> of Darkness not explored yet? Ideas?
>
> In the old World of Darkness you had vampires, werewolves, ghosts, faeries,
> mages, two kinds of mummy, supernaturally-endowed hunters, demons tied to Earth.
> There were zombies as antagonists.
>
> In the new you have vampires, werewolves, mages, and Frankenstein's monster.
> There are ghosts and zombies as antagonists.
>
> So it's *possible* that the fifth game will redo faeries or mummies. On the
> other hand, it's easily demonstrated that the presence of a gameline
> supernatural creature doesn't necessarily preclude a core version of that type,
> with Second Sight presenting "regular" non-Atlantean magic. Therefore, it's
> possible that the fifth game will focus on a new type of ghost a la Wraith, or
> supernaturally-endowed hunters a la Hunter.

Oooh, here's an idea: Men in Black. Not like the Will Smith movie, and
not the Technocracy, but government agents tasked with concealing and
smoothing over supernatural activity? The nWoD stands nicely on its own
as a conspiracy game, and this would seem to be a natural extension. No
goofy supertech and no magic, just ordinary people with an extraordinary
job.
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Richard Clayton wrote:

> Christopher Adams wrote:

> Oooh, here's an idea: Men in Black. Not like the Will Smith movie,
> and not the Technocracy, but government agents tasked with concealing
> and smoothing over supernatural activity? The nWoD stands nicely on its
> own as a conspiracy game, and this would seem to be a natural extension.
> No goofy supertech and no magic, just ordinary people with an
> extraordinary job.

I like it! I'm not too keen on seeing a new version of Hunter. I
always preferred my hunters to be ordinary mortals with nothing but
their wits to keep them on top of things. It seems to me that type of
hunter is covered more or less completely by the World of Darkness core
book (of course, WoD: Armoury doesn't hurt things. )
But this idea of an MiB type government organization sounds very
interesting. I'll be honest, I don't know if there's enough material
there for a whole splatbook - especially if we rule out supertech, but
at least as a sourcebook to the core system, it would be a must-buy for
me. And that's saying something, because I usually don't buy sourcebooks.
 >> Stay informed about: Well, that's it, the group's dead. 

Steve Williams <steve1.williams.TakeThisOut@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:

>> Hmmm. Now here's an idea: What classical monster genres has the
>> World of Darkness not explored yet? Ideas?

> Merpeople.

They are in Blood Dimmed Tides, pages 59-83. (They are Changelings)

--
Thomas Weinbrenner
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Christopher Adams wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>> Oooh, here's an idea: Men in Black. Not like the Will Smith movie, and
>> not the Technocracy, but government agents tasked with concealing and
>> smoothing over supernatural activity? The nWoD stands nicely on its own
>> as a conspiracy game, and this would seem to be a natural extension. No
>> goofy supertech and no magic, just ordinary people with an extraordinary
>> job.
>
> Interesting. There's the forthcoming "Tales from the 13th Precinct" which will
> handle law enforcement's involvement with the supernatural at the level of
> city/county/state police . . .

Ooooh, neat. I should check that out.

> A government or government-supported agency that "deals with" the supernatural
> in whatever way you wish to define "deals with" would also be an interesting
> alternative take on Hunter, in the sense of a secretive body of people who know
> what's going on but disagree about how to deal with it.

In this case, "deals with" would probably be about hushing up knowledge
of paranormals and keeping them from interfering in the lives of mortals
as much as possible; this is probably an organization that realizes it's
not going to win a toe-to-toe fight against against an alliance of
vampires, werewolves, wizards, and other weirdness, so mostly they try
to keep people as blissfully ignorant as possible. They do quietly put
down the occasional berserker vampire or flamboyant mage, but that's not
the main part of the job.

> Another inspiration would be Hellboy's Bureau of Paranormal Research and
> Defence.

That would be interesting as well. And I hear that "Monster
Superfriends" works far better in the new World of Darkness than it did
with the old.
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Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 >> Stay informed about: Well, that's it, the group's dead. 

Steve Williams wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>
>> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>> Oooh, here's an idea: Men in Black. Not like the Will Smith movie,
>> and not the Technocracy, but government agents tasked with concealing
>> and smoothing over supernatural activity? The nWoD stands nicely on
>> its own as a conspiracy game, and this would seem to be a natural
>> extension. No goofy supertech and no magic, just ordinary people with
>> an extraordinary job.
>
> I like it! I'm not too keen on seeing a new version of Hunter. I
> always preferred my hunters to be ordinary mortals with nothing but
> their wits to keep them on top of things. It seems to me that type of
> hunter is covered more or less completely by the World of Darkness core
> book (of course, WoD: Armoury doesn't hurt things. )
> But this idea of an MiB type government organization sounds very
> interesting. I'll be honest, I don't know if there's enough material
> there for a whole splatbook - especially if we rule out supertech, but
> at least as a sourcebook to the core system, it would be a must-buy for
> me. And that's saying something, because I usually don't buy sourcebooks.

Heh heh. Well, I encourage you to email White Wolf and urge them to
hire me to write /Men in Black: The Flashy Thinging/. Hell, if every
reader of alt.games.whitewolf were to petition them, that would be
nearly HALF A DOZEN people! (^_~)
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Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 >> Stay informed about: Well, that's it, the group's dead. 

Richard Clayton wrote:

> Heh heh. Well, I encourage you to email White Wolf and urge them to
> hire me to write /Men in Black: The Flashy Thinging/. Hell, if every
> reader of alt.games.whitewolf were to petition them, that would be
> nearly HALF A DOZEN people! (^_~)

Hehe. I dunno, I think "World of Darkness: MiB" has a certain ring
to it.
 >> Stay informed about: Well, that's it, the group's dead. 

Ibn Tumart wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>> Richard Clayton wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hmmm. Now here's an idea: What classical monster genres has the World
>>> of Darkness not explored yet? Ideas?
>>>
>>
>> In the old World of Darkness you had vampires, werewolves, ghosts,
>> faeries, mages, two kinds of mummy, supernaturally-endowed hunters,
>> demons tied to Earth. There were zombies as antagonists.
>>
> Two kinds of mummies? I never bought any Mummy stuff past the very
> first supplement White Wolf released, so this is news to me. What was
> the difference between the two types of mummies?

Mummies were first showcased in World of Darkness: Mummy, which was
partly a stand-alone game and partly a /Vampire/ supplement. These
mummies were resurrected with the Spell of Life, gifted to the followers
of Osiris, and though they were individually powerful, they were never
numerous. In addition, the old Spell of Life was in some ways flawed,
and the resurrection was not perfect. These immortals had to spend long
centuries in the underworld between resurrections, and they often found
their interest in existence failing under the crushing weight of
eternity. Worse yet, anyone gifted with the Spell of Life CANNOT be
permanently slain— the mummies had no choice but to simply grind on
forever, no matter how much they grew to loathe their existences.
A side note: vampires found the blood of these mummies tasteless, and
they could not derive sustenance from it.
Much changed with the release of /Mummy: The Resurrection./ Toward the
end of the World of Darkness, all Hell was breaking loose in the
underworld. Eventually the Maelstrom winds laid siege to Amenti, the
great city of the Egyptian dead in the Underworld. Osiris himself rose
from his millennia-long slumber and shielded the city and its
inhabitants from the raging tempest; and though he saved many, even the
great power of the Lord of Life could not completely hold back the
Maelstrom. Numerous ancient spirits who dwelt in the Egyptian underworld
were torn to fragments by the ghost storm.
When the Maelstrom abated, Osiris looked upon the lands of the living
and the dead for the first time in thousands of years, and he realized
that the grim, dying world needed new champions of Life and Balance. So
he gifted his followers with a new, perfected Spell of Life. With this
spell, the faithful of Osiris could merge a newly-dead mortal with the
fragment of an Egyptian soul rent by the Maelstrom.
Recipients of the greater Spell of Life were always chosen from among
those who were faulty or incomplete in some way, and gifted with a new
soul fragment to address the flaw: For example, a person who indulged in
self-destructive habits, like a drug addict, might receive a Ka-spirit,
dedicated to the preservation of the body and of life in general. As a
result, two souls that might both have fallen to Oblivion were merged
into a greater whole, a new and powerful immortal capable of beating
back the encroaching darkness.
The new mummies, titled the Amenti after the fallen city of the dead,
suffered none of the weaknesses of their forebears. They were full of
life and joy. Indeed, the Reborn felt more alive than ever. In
particular, they needed not worry about losing their humanity, as the
older mummies did; likewise, if slain an Amenti needed only a few months
or even days of rest in the underworld before returning to life again.
And finally, the Lord of Life did not force his gift on anybody: an
Amenti could choose to die fully and permanently, if he no longer
desired the responsibilities that came with immortality in the service
of Osiris.
Side note: Not only did Kindred find Amenti blood incredibly potent,
gaining two blood points for each unit ingested, they also suffered from
a powerful side-effect. For each unit of Amenti blood consumed, a
vampire's Humanity would rise by one point until he purged the mummy
blood from his body.
Thematically, /Mummy: The Resurrection/ was quite a departure from the
normal World of Darkness line. It presented screwed-up people made whole
and strong, instead of normal people who found themselves transformed
into monsters. Hope, life, and redemption were prominent themes. That
isn't to say there weren't some opportunities for mopery and goth-drama—
the Sefekhi and Udja-sen splats in particular had lots of fodder for the
tragically hip crowd. But overall it was a very optimistic game.
--
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"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 >> Stay informed about: Well, that's it, the group's dead. 

Christopher Adams wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>> In this case, "deals with" would probably be about hushing up knowledge
>> of paranormals and keeping them from interfering in the lives of mortals
>> as much as possible;
>
> The Guardians of the Veil order of mages does this quite a lot, *not* because
> werewolves and vampires utilise the same Supernal magic as mages, but because
> the exposure of Sleepers to one kind of magic risks them getting interested in
> magic generally, encountering Supernal magic, and strengthening the Abyss with
> their disbelief.

I do not follow. Why would Sleeper interest in magic lead to increased
DISbelief?
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"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
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Christopher Adams wrote:
> Ibn Tumart wrote:
>> Hmmm... that's actually a pretty interesting premise. I don't mind the
>> lack of pessimistic mopiness either. Might be worth picking up at the
>> used bookstore next time I go, though I imagine it's not a game that's
>> easy to find players for.
>
> What game apart from Vampire and D&D is?

/Exalted./ I find once people get a grasp on the basic concepts of the
game, they fall all over themselves to play it. For a while I was
running TWO games, with a total of 12 players, until I decided I simply
couldn't handle that much writing. (Not without quitting my job, anyway.)
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Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
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Ibn Tumart wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>> Thematically, /Mummy: The Resurrection/ was quite a departure from
>> the normal World of Darkness line. It presented screwed-up people made
>> whole and strong, instead of normal people who found themselves
>> transformed into monsters. Hope, life, and redemption were prominent
>> themes. That isn't to say there weren't some opportunities for mopery
>> and goth-drama— the Sefekhi and Udja-sen splats in particular had lots
>> of fodder for the tragically hip crowd. But overall it was a very
>> optimistic game.
>
> Hmmm... that's actually a pretty interesting premise. I don't mind the
> lack of pessimistic mopiness either. Might be worth picking up at the
> used bookstore next time I go, though I imagine it's not a game that's
> easy to find players for.

You might be surprised. Although I admit, anybody who likes his games
really hardcore emo might not be interested. Either way, the book is a
worthy read in itself.
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Christopher Adams wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>> I do not follow. Why would Sleeper interest in magic lead to increased
>> DISbelief?
>
> Because anyone who isn't Awakened, or a Sleepwalker, is a window through which
> the Abyss can reach out and smack you.
>
> If a Sleeper witnesses an incident involving vampires or werewolves and becomes
> interested in the occult, the chances are higher that she will stumble across
> Supernal magic . . . this is bad not only because mages should be kept secret,
> but because Sleepers encountering Supernal magic will say "No, that can't be
> real", and the Abyss will prove them right.
>
> Sleepers make covert magic Improbable, for instance.

Ah. I know little about the metaphysics of the new /Mage/, and
apparently much of what I knew from the old game does not transfer.
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2006-05-28 <Oyqeg.1242$ho6.650@trnddc07>, Richard Clayton wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
>> Richard Clayton wrote:
>>> I do not follow. Why would Sleeper interest in magic lead to increased
>>> DISbelief?
>>
>> Because anyone who isn't Awakened, or a Sleepwalker, is a window through which
>> the Abyss can reach out and smack you.
>>
>> If a Sleeper witnesses an incident involving vampires or werewolves and becomes
>> interested in the occult, the chances are higher that she will stumble across
>> Supernal magic . . . this is bad not only because mages should be kept secret,
>> but because Sleepers encountering Supernal magic will say "No, that can't be
>> real", and the Abyss will prove them right.
>>
>> Sleepers make covert magic Improbable, for instance.
>
> Ah. I know little about the metaphysics of the new /Mage/, and
> apparently much of what I knew from the old game does not transfer.

Can you provide a citation saying that a sleeper being interested in
magic wouldn't make them count as a witness for purposes of Paradox?
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Jordan Abel wrote:

> Can you provide a citation saying that a sleeper being interested in
> magic wouldn't make them count as a witness for purposes of Paradox?

In Awakening or Ascension?

Also, huh?
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