New ebay policies: WTF?!

My problem is that I sell a lot of quite outlandish toy items on ebay, these
are the types of items a buyer could easily get buyers remorse over for
paying much more than what they are actually worth. I sell without paypal
and I refuse to use paypal, although I have well over 100 feedback so that
should not affect me. I do just fine selling without paypal and sometimes I
even get more money than other people who have paypal auctions listed for
the same thing get. I cannot take paypal because all it takes is one buyer
to have remorse and then they want the item for free and will do everything
to try and scam you, they will say it was not packed well, it was damaged in
shipping or other things, and I have never had an item damaged in shipping.
Remember people paypal always sides with the buyer and rarely with the
seller, so as a seller you have basically no chance if someone files a
dispute and they can do that for basically any reason they choose.

I am not scared because I am an honest seller who describes everything to a
tee however you can still get problems just because someone wants something
for free and is out to scam you. There is an abhorrant amount of scammers
on ebay.
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

On Jan 31, 1:08 am, death69... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net wrote:
> well being one of the people that have recieved badfeedback for
> leaving backfeed back when there was no readon to give me bad feed
> back as a buyer I am in favor of this no bad feedback for buyer
>
> but I think sellers should instantly give feedback one payment is
> revcieved not wait till buyer gives feedback to see what he says
>
> if sellers would use the feedback as it was ment instead of usign it
> as a weapon maybe this wouldnt even be thoguht of
>
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:15:53 -0800 (PST), "micrologix1...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
> <micrologix1... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >As al you have probably read by now, ebay is making MAJOR changes to
> >just about every aspect of their operation.  Not surprisingly, they're
> >raising their rates, and pushing everyone a little closer to a paypal-
> >only payment policy.  They're making it more attractive to be a
> >powerseller, which i suppose makes financial sense, given economies of
> >scale.  But what's really got me baffled is what they're doing with
> >feedback.. "Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback."
> >Huh??  Think about that for a minute.. I guess feedback doesn't apply
> >to the buyer AT ALL anymore!  As a seller, I'm VERY wary of this.  How
> >can you hope to get a fair shake from everyone, when they know they
> >have zero accountability for their comments?  and then there's the
> >"safer payment option".. for "higher risk categories".. like
> >computers.  yikes!  sounds like the "buyers have the seller over a
> >barrel" policy to me!  Paypal holding seller's payment until they get
> >a positive feedback?  from someone that has absolutely nothing to fear
> >about getting a negative?   hmmm.... yeah, i guess i needed another
> >reason not to use paypal  oh wait, that's pretty much all they'll
> >accept now!
>
> >Well there's one good thing, it looks like they're nice enough to give
> >us a month's warning.  guess what I think I'll be doing for most of
> >february?  you guessed it.. selling off just about everything i've got
> >that i think i would want to sell on ebay!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The system was fine and kept both parties honest and willing to
working things out. Immediate feedback from the seller is NOT the way
it was intended!
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

On Jan 31, 9:36 am, Josh McCormick <jmcc... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> Manny wrote:
> > All that said, though, I am not happy at all about "no negative
> > feedback for buyers".  That is really stupid.  If they're going to
> > institute that, it should be with a clause that you can leave negative
> > feedback if they have already left negative feedback for you as the
> > seller.
>
> I think that is exactly what eBay is trying to stop.
>
> Under the current system, people (from either side of the transaction)
> can only leave honest negative feedback if they're willing to risk
> revenge feedback. So, many times, negative feedback gets swept under the
> rug. It takes longer than is should for the existing feedback system to
> flag a bad participant.
>
> My belief is that they've now 1/2 fixed the long-broken feedback system.
> This, plus the detailed seller ratings, means that I can start to trust
> the feedback system to understand the seller. If people have a problem
> with a seller, for once, I'm going to know what those problems are, and
> I'm going to know them sooner than I did before.
>
> I don't see/understand how they've balanced the other half of the
> transaction (buyer feedback). Is feedback really 'gone' for buyers? Or
> are bad marks now automated? Or does eBay enforce more transactions
> (through PayPal) and remove bad buyers? I'd like to see it spelled out.
>
> I think, during the transition to the new system, some people may have a
> perception problem when it comes to how to interpret the new feedback.
> But long term, people are going to figure out how to evaluate someone's
> reputation when negative feedbacks are more common. I'm going to have to
> read Joe-bob being angry that it took a week to ship an item, and figure
> out what, if anything, that means to me.
>
> But I also know that some marginal sellers are going to quickly rack up
> those negs, and blame the system, and not themselves. Great! These are
> exactly the kinds of things I want to see happen as a buyer.
>
> So, while I'm against any action by eBay which could shrink the
> marketplace (new feedback changes, higher fees for sellers), as a buyer,
> for the sellers that aren't scared away, this is some really helpful stuff..
>
> Better seller feedback. Gallery pictures, which help me understand the
> item better, are more likely to be there because they're free.
>
> I just wish eBay made the sellers happier. eBay really stuck it to you guys.

I wish there was an easy bad Buyer list and a type of star system for
them, then I could decide how to filter out problem people. Stars such
as
attitude, timely payment, cooperative. etc might be a way to institute
a Buyer Star rating system. I would say from my 12 years of experience
and 40k or so a month sales that about 8-10% of buyers are really
awful and should be banned from ebay. No they get a license to screw
honest vendors. On the other hand the 90% or so people we deal with
are great and if on the occasion there is a problem theyy are super to
work with and it makes it a pleasure to help them.
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

On Jan 30, 7:15 pm, "micrologix1...@yahoo.com"
<micrologix1....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> As al you have probably read by now, ebay is making MAJOR changes to
> just about every aspect of their operation.  Not surprisingly, they're
> raising their rates, and pushing everyone a little closer to a paypal-
> only payment policy.  They're making it more attractive to be a
> powerseller, which i suppose makes financial sense, given economies of
> scale.  But what's really got me baffled is what they're doing with
> feedback.. "Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback."
> Huh??  Think about that for a minute.. I guess feedback doesn't apply
> to the buyer AT ALL anymore!  As a seller, I'm VERY wary of this.  How
> can you hope to get a fair shake from everyone, when they know they
> have zero accountability for their comments?  and then there's the
> "safer payment option".. for "higher risk categories".. like
> computers.  yikes!  sounds like the "buyers have the seller over a
> barrel" policy to me!  Paypal holding seller's payment until they get
> a positive feedback?  from someone that has absolutely nothing to fear
> about getting a negative?   hmmm.... yeah, i guess i needed another
> reason not to use paypal  oh wait, that's pretty much all they'll
> accept now!
>
> Well there's one good thing, it looks like they're nice enough to give
> us a month's warning.  guess what I think I'll be doing for most of
> february?  you guessed it.. selling off just about everything i've got
> that i think i would want to sell on ebay!

The whole "buyer happiness" thing is difficult because it's such a
subjective measurement.

Items for sale should not be misrepresented, whether it's on purpose
or not.

Buyers should honestly report whether the seller has done an honest
job at providing what was promised, exclusive of any buyer's remorse.

I think what eBay is figuring out right now is that running a
marketplace is expensive. Aside from all of the money required to
keep the technology running, the complaint department is a huge cash-
sucking black hole.

On the one hand, sellers might not properly represent the items they
have for sale. On the other hand, buyers may be less than honest
about whether that widget came out of the box broken or whether it
broke 10 minutes after it came out of the box. What about the
packaging? How much is enough? What about the shipping method? Was
insurance taken?

To properly mediate such a dispute is just this side of impossible, as
the seller sits in one part of the world, the buyer in another part of
the world and the item (or its packaging) not within arms-length of
the mediator.

This is why I now buy very little from eBay and sell almost nothing.
I had a tremendous amount of stuff to dispose-of this past year and
donated it all to good will. While I _might_ have been able to come
out ahead putting it all on eBay, the prospect of creating all the
listings, monitoring all my auctions for zero-feedback (or worse)
bidders, answering questions someone might have about a $3 dress
shirt, tracking who won what and who's combining items, packing and
shipping all the merchandise just didn't appeal to me.

I figured that once I took into account the time I was putting into
it, I'd come out ahead through the donation route.

While I haven't completely sworn off eBay, if I do have something to
sell one-off I'll likely investigate all other avenues before listing
on eBay.
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

I agree.I already list other places.No more Ebay for me.I feel the same way
about Starbucks Coffee.I won't give them even one more penny.I stopped
buying their overpriced Coffee about a year ago and if more people would
just say No to these overpriced Corporations then they would not be able to
rake everyone over the Coals.I watch people from this generation just pay
any price they are asked and not even question it.Im sure they will survive
without my business but i won't buy anything from them until they sell
Coffee for what it's really worth.I mean over 5 bucks for a cup of flavored
coffee??.And thats the small size.They don't even call it the small size
anymore.I think they call it the Tall size:)).And the large is called a
Venti??.I think that size is around 6 bucks.Coffee should be 65 cents and
the flavor another 25 cents but there are so many suckers that will actually
pay 6 bucks for a cup of Coffee and that's why they can get away with
it.They can go Hug a Nut!!!
<Charles.Sachs.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0bbc4eb8-3062-4777-b44f-a5afffc60622@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 7:15 pm, "micrologix1...@yahoo.com"
<micrologix1....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> As al you have probably read by now, ebay is making MAJOR changes to
> just about every aspect of their operation. Not surprisingly, they're
> raising their rates, and pushing everyone a little closer to a paypal-
> only payment policy. They're making it more attractive to be a
> powerseller, which i suppose makes financial sense, given economies of
> scale. But what's really got me baffled is what they're doing with
> feedback.. "Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback."
> Huh?? Think about that for a minute.. I guess feedback doesn't apply
> to the buyer AT ALL anymore! As a seller, I'm VERY wary of this. How
> can you hope to get a fair shake from everyone, when they know they
> have zero accountability for their comments? and then there's the
> "safer payment option".. for "higher risk categories".. like
> computers. yikes! sounds like the "buyers have the seller over a
> barrel" policy to me! Paypal holding seller's payment until they get
> a positive feedback? from someone that has absolutely nothing to fear
> about getting a negative? hmmm.... yeah, i guess i needed another
> reason not to use paypal oh wait, that's pretty much all they'll
> accept now!
>
> Well there's one good thing, it looks like they're nice enough to give
> us a month's warning. guess what I think I'll be doing for most of
> february? you guessed it.. selling off just about everything i've got
> that i think i would want to sell on ebay!

The whole "buyer happiness" thing is difficult because it's such a
subjective measurement.

Items for sale should not be misrepresented, whether it's on purpose
or not.

Buyers should honestly report whether the seller has done an honest
job at providing what was promised, exclusive of any buyer's remorse.

I think what eBay is figuring out right now is that running a
marketplace is expensive. Aside from all of the money required to
keep the technology running, the complaint department is a huge cash-
sucking black hole.

On the one hand, sellers might not properly represent the items they
have for sale. On the other hand, buyers may be less than honest
about whether that widget came out of the box broken or whether it
broke 10 minutes after it came out of the box. What about the
packaging? How much is enough? What about the shipping method? Was
insurance taken?

To properly mediate such a dispute is just this side of impossible, as
the seller sits in one part of the world, the buyer in another part of
the world and the item (or its packaging) not within arms-length of
the mediator.

This is why I now buy very little from eBay and sell almost nothing.
I had a tremendous amount of stuff to dispose-of this past year and
donated it all to good will. While I _might_ have been able to come
out ahead putting it all on eBay, the prospect of creating all the
listings, monitoring all my auctions for zero-feedback (or worse)
bidders, answering questions someone might have about a $3 dress
shirt, tracking who won what and who's combining items, packing and
shipping all the merchandise just didn't appeal to me.

I figured that once I took into account the time I was putting into
it, I'd come out ahead through the donation route.

While I haven't completely sworn off eBay, if I do have something to
sell one-off I'll likely investigate all other avenues before listing
on eBay.
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

Hey,
I only buy from ebay, but I have to side with the sellers. I
thought up a new plan to ballance out the new policies. Ebay can give
more control to sellers on who bids. EX. No one with feedback less
than_can bid on my items. I would choose 97%. But since
everyone(buyers) is going to have 100%, ebay should institute a
blackball policy. If a buyer(or seller) screws you, you can blackball
them. This means if you try to bid on their item(or they try to bid
on yours), your filter system won't allow you to do so. It will
remind you that you have deemed them too risky. Furthermore, a person
should be allowed to block transactions from those they have not won
auctions from. That way, when we hear about a dick on the newsgroup
thats ruining if for everybody, we can choose to block them from
future transactions with us. As a seller, you could block bidders
with a larger number of blackballs than you find acceptable. It might
give rise to mob mentality, but it would run the bad sellers(and many
of the bidders) out of ebay.

I have 100 % feedback. I only left negative feedback once that could
be considered unfair. I bought an item that was listed new. It
arrived about 90 days after a prompt mail payment. The item that was
shipped was worn slap out. I promptly left neg feedback since the
seller had taken soo long, and the item arrived in such poor
condition. My reasoning was that since it took soooooo long to get
the item, my window to leave neg feedback would have run out by the
time it was corrected. I left the feedback and then asked the guy if
he would do anything to correct the situation. His reply was that he
was not under any obligation to correct anything since feedback was
already left. I know your thinking that I was being unreasonable. If a
mistake occured in shipping, I think an honest seller should have
shipped the right item and corrected. As a buyer, I felt it was my
obligation that others be made aware of this sellers tendency to take
so long in shipping, and ship the wrong item, or describe wrong. His
feedback was less than stellar & it was a risk buying off him in the
first place.

Point is this: I am pretty laxed about positive feedback. If I get my
item and its mostly as descrbibed, I'm happy. Seller gets positive.
If something is wrong, I make every effort to work it out in a civil
fashion. But if feel a seller did such a lousy job that others needed
to know, I would leave the feedback reguardless of the retaliation.
I figure I owe that to all the good buyers & sellers on Ebay.

As for Ebays continued policy of stupidity, I hope people do stop
selling with them and find another auction site. Someone should
start an online auction company with free listings that makes money
some other way. Anyone up for makeing an RGVAC or KLOV auction site.
No dispute system, just a small group that keeps up with the
blackballed list of sellers and buyers. Just a thought.
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

death69inc.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> Nor was holding feedback over someones head to get good feedback

Looks like eBay is rolling out 'ole Griff to do some explanin':
http://www.ebaychatter.com/the_chatter/2008/02/feedback-change.html

He doesn't apologize for the fee changes (ha, ha). But he is all gung-ho
on the revamp of the feedback system. I'm kind of with him in some ways.
But here's the more interesting part of his perspective...

"A1" seller - Maintained 99-100% positive feedback by putting customer
first _and_ left feedback upon receipt of payment.

"A2" seller - Maintained 99-100% positive feedback by 'exploting the
system's inherent built-in weakness: the implied threat of retaliation'.

Back to the buyers, his claim is that "these otherwise good buyers,
soured on their experience with retaliatory Feedback, were immediately
leery of making future purchases on eBay. Many even stopped using the
site altogether."

So eBay tried to correct this with Mutual Feedback Withdrawal. But some
of the "A2" sellers learned that they could use this to extort a removal
of a negative from their own profile.

The result, he says, is "a slow and steady erosion in Feedback’s
accuracy and efficacy as a reputation guide for buyers to rate sellers."

Rightfully so, he blames eBay. He goes on to say how the changes it will
increase buyer confidence, long term. (I think I can agree with that.)

Still no mention, that I could see, on how buyers would be rated,
controlled, etc. Are they shifting more risk to the seller, or... ?

Imperfect, but I think it changes a broken system into a half-working
system.
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

MARK wrote:
> I agree.I already list other places.No more Ebay for me.I feel the same way
> about Starbucks Coffee.I won't give them even one more penny.

Mark, I know I've bought from you in the past, and have been quite
satisfied. But I want to understand how your point of view works.

eBay, at least from my perspective, appears to be pretty much the center
for buying and selling arcade related items online. It just seems, as a
buyer, it is tough to get selection at any other place, at a decent
price. Sure, I can get selection at Eldorado games, and I can get good
prices in the newsgroup or the KLOV discussions, but is there doesn't
seem to be any other good place that I can get both.

How do alternatives differ from a seller's perspective? Increased profit
per item, but lower volume?
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

Hey Josh.The point i was trying to make is that Ebay has raised their rates
so high that if a seller figures out all his costs for listing on Ebay that
they are around a 40% partner between listing fees,Extra and enhanced
pictures,Final value fees alone are about 5%+ now.Then if someone pays you
with Paypal they take another chunk.All in all i don't think it pays anymore
unless you have a really great item you can produce very cheap and sell very
high so you can come out ahead on a deal.I almost forgot about shipping.Gas
to go to the Post Office which has nothing to do with Ebay but you have to
figure everything in when you are selling things to make a profit.My opinion
is its just no longer worth it for me after Ebay takes their huge cut.Years
ago they were reasonable and you didn't mind paying their fees because there
was plenty of room to still make money but now they have become a real
partner when you figure out their bottom line.I speak for myself.If anyone
feels differently then stay with Ebay.I won't.
"Josh McCormick" <jmccorm.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5ibpj.38532$Ft5.13812@newsfe15.lga...
> MARK wrote:
>> I agree.I already list other places.No more Ebay for me.I feel the same
>> way about Starbucks Coffee.I won't give them even one more penny.
>
> Mark, I know I've bought from you in the past, and have been quite
> satisfied. But I want to understand how your point of view works.
>
> eBay, at least from my perspective, appears to be pretty much the center
> for buying and selling arcade related items online. It just seems, as a
> buyer, it is tough to get selection at any other place, at a decent price.
> Sure, I can get selection at Eldorado games, and I can get good prices in
> the newsgroup or the KLOV discussions, but is there doesn't seem to be any
> other good place that I can get both.
>
> How do alternatives differ from a seller's perspective? Increased profit
> per item, but lower volume?
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

On Feb 3, 8:11 am, "Ron Lyons" <rlyo....TakeThisOut@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
> You can already block any bidder you feel like blocking, You don't know
> about that?
>
> Ron
>
Last I checked, you have to do it one buyer at a time. It's an
awkward system that obviously didn't get much attention from ebay's
all-star team of web developers
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

You can already block any bidder you feel like blocking, You don't know
about that?

Ron

<chicodjennings.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2a0e267-4312-402f-aa34-8f33add3f477@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Hey,
> I only buy from ebay, but I have to side with the sellers. I
> thought up a new plan to ballance out the new policies. Ebay can give
> more control to sellers on who bids. EX. No one with feedback less
> than_can bid on my items. I would choose 97%. But since
> everyone(buyers) is going to have 100%, ebay should institute a
> blackball policy. If a buyer(or seller) screws you, you can blackball
> them. This means if you try to bid on their item(or they try to bid
> on yours), your filter system won't allow you to do so. It will
> remind you that you have deemed them too risky. Furthermore, a person
> should be allowed to block transactions from those they have not won
> auctions from. That way, when we hear about a dick on the newsgroup
> thats ruining if for everybody, we can choose to block them from
> future transactions with us. As a seller, you could block bidders
> with a larger number of blackballs than you find acceptable. It might
> give rise to mob mentality, but it would run the bad sellers(and many
> of the bidders) out of ebay.
>
> I have 100 % feedback. I only left negative feedback once that could
> be considered unfair. I bought an item that was listed new. It
> arrived about 90 days after a prompt mail payment. The item that was
> shipped was worn slap out. I promptly left neg feedback since the
> seller had taken soo long, and the item arrived in such poor
> condition. My reasoning was that since it took soooooo long to get
> the item, my window to leave neg feedback would have run out by the
> time it was corrected. I left the feedback and then asked the guy if
> he would do anything to correct the situation. His reply was that he
> was not under any obligation to correct anything since feedback was
> already left. I know your thinking that I was being unreasonable. If a
> mistake occured in shipping, I think an honest seller should have
> shipped the right item and corrected. As a buyer, I felt it was my
> obligation that others be made aware of this sellers tendency to take
> so long in shipping, and ship the wrong item, or describe wrong. His
> feedback was less than stellar & it was a risk buying off him in the
> first place.
>
> Point is this: I am pretty laxed about positive feedback. If I get my
> item and its mostly as descrbibed, I'm happy. Seller gets positive.
> If something is wrong, I make every effort to work it out in a civil
> fashion. But if feel a seller did such a lousy job that others needed
> to know, I would leave the feedback reguardless of the retaliation.
> I figure I owe that to all the good buyers & sellers on Ebay.
>
> As for Ebays continued policy of stupidity, I hope people do stop
> selling with them and find another auction site. Someone should
> start an online auction company with free listings that makes money
> some other way. Anyone up for makeing an RGVAC or KLOV auction site.
> No dispute system, just a small group that keeps up with the
> blackballed list of sellers and buyers. Just a thought.
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

<micrologix1500.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1a010012-c5b9-4373-a041-44dfb2b3e4de@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 3, 8:11 am, "Ron Lyons" <rlyo....TakeThisOut@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>> You can already block any bidder you feel like blocking, You don't know
>> about that?
>>
>> Ron
>>
> Last I checked, you have to do it one buyer at a time. It's an
> awkward system that obviously didn't get much attention from ebay's
> all-star team of web developers

You said :
"If a buyer(or seller) screws you, you can blackball
> them. This means if you try to bid on their item(or they try to bid
> on yours), your filter system won't allow you to do so. It will
> remind you that you have deemed them too risky. Furthermore, a person
> should be allowed to block transactions from those they have not won
> auctions from. That way, when we hear about a dick on the newsgroup
> thats ruining if for everybody, we can choose to block them from
> future transactions with us. As a seller, you could block bidders
> with a larger number of blackballs than you find acceptable. "

You're talking about blocking bidders one by one, which you can already do.

Ron
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?! 

Agreed!
 >> Stay informed about: New ebay policies: WTF?!