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External
Since: Dec 10, 2004
Posts: 131
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: dmg/delay question
Archived from groups: alt>games>everquest (more info?)
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So not really understanding the mechanics behind this topic I have a
simple question.
Current weapon is 36/40 (dmg/delay). If I change to a 32/36 will my
DPS be effected overall? It's a drop of 4 on both sides so usually
4=4 but ...
I just like the idea of hitting more frequently since misses become
less costly over time.
Also the 32/26 weapon has a proc (20 point lifetap) whereas the
current has no proc.
Thanks.
~F |
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External
Since: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 71
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> >36 / 40 is 0.9 damage per unit of delay.
> >32 / 36 is 0.888 damage per unit of delay.
> >
> >So, 36/40 is actually the slightly better ratio, but by a small margin.
> >
> >>Also the 32/26 weapon has a proc (20 point lifetap) whereas the
> >>current has no proc.
> >
> >Which probably tips the balance in favour of the 32/36 weapon.
> >
> >There are other factors to take into account, but in general, the higher
> >the ratio, or the higher the damage per unit of delay, the more DPS a
> >weapon will deliver.
>
> So it really is as simple as a straight ratio? Damn, I was thinking
> there were several aspect to this. Too easy.
>
There are a few other factors, but the two weapons are pretty similar.
A main-hand weapon proc will fire about once a minute, if you have
average Dex (I think it goes up to twice a minute, for 255 Dex, without
AA's). The damage bonus of two-handed weapons also varies, based on
the weapon's delay (and your level). You can check Lucy for the
details, but the difference will be small, since the weapons have
similar delays.
The formula typically used is:
DPS = ( 2*damage + bonus ) / delay
The bonus only exists for melee classes above level 28 or so.
Otherwise, it is proportional to damage/delay. Damage from the proc
would be added to this (e.g. 20pt proc, once per minute, for 20/60 =
0.333 added DPS).
If it were my choice, I would go with the 32/36+proc. On the other
hand, it isn't enough of an upgrade to go crazy over. Since you
mention it would be a huge cost to you, I would pass on buying it in
the bazaar.
- Prelgor |
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External
Since: Dec 10, 2004
Posts: 131
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:46:04 +0000, Tony Evans
<postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>So not really understanding the mechanics behind this topic I have a
>>simple question.
>>
>>Current weapon is 36/40 (dmg/delay). If I change to a 32/36 will my
>>DPS be effected overall? It's a drop of 4 on both sides so usually
>>4=4 but ...
>
>DPS is a function of the ratio of the weapons, assuming the same skill,
>same handed-ness and no procs.
>
>36 / 40 is 0.9 damage per unit of delay.
>32 / 36 is 0.888 damage per unit of delay.
>
>So, 36/40 is actually the slightly better ratio, but by a small margin.
>
>>Also the 32/26 weapon has a proc (20 point lifetap) whereas the
>>current has no proc.
>
>Which probably tips the balance in favour of the 32/36 weapon.
>
>There are other factors to take into account, but in general, the higher
>the ratio, or the higher the damage per unit of delay, the more DPS a
>weapon will deliver.
>
>10 dmg / 20 delay = 0.5 damage per unit of time
>20 dmg / 20 delay = 1.0 damage per unit of time (a 1:1 ratio)
>30 dmg / 20 delay = 1.5 damage per unit of time
>
>Depending on your class, don't forget that the higher the ratio the more
>aggro each potential swing delivers.
So it really is as simple as a straight ratio? Damn, I was thinking
there were several aspect to this. Too easy.
Thanks for the reply and clarification. Berserker is the class and
both weapons are 2hs. Thinking I'll stay with what I have since the
slight upgrade for the proc will cost me greatly. Not doing bad with
the current weapon just always on the lookout for better.
From most conversations I've had in game it seems my current weapon is
the best I can get (lvl restrictions) until my epic 1.0. Now that
weapon is cool.
~F >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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External
Since: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I always heard that it was the rate of attack (i.e. delay only) that
determined aggro, and not dps. thats why high speed weapons are in
demand by tanks while lower speed, but beter ratios, are preferred by
dps guys. >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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External
Since: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Faeandar <mr_castalot.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:u37902d5sq2410es9uq7tavibqpsd43ffp@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:46:04 +0000, Tony Evans
> <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>>In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>So not really understanding the mechanics behind this topic I have a
>>>simple question.
>>>
>>>Current weapon is 36/40 (dmg/delay). If I change to a 32/36 will my
>>>DPS be effected overall? It's a drop of 4 on both sides so usually
>>>4=4 but ...
>>
>>DPS is a function of the ratio of the weapons, assuming the same skill,
>>same handed-ness and no procs.
>>
>>36 / 40 is 0.9 damage per unit of delay.
>>32 / 36 is 0.888 damage per unit of delay.
>>
>>So, 36/40 is actually the slightly better ratio, but by a small margin.
>>
>>>Also the 32/26 weapon has a proc (20 point lifetap) whereas the
>>>current has no proc.
>>
>>Which probably tips the balance in favour of the 32/36 weapon.
>>
>>There are other factors to take into account, but in general, the
higher
>>the ratio, or the higher the damage per unit of delay, the more DPS a
>>weapon will deliver.
>>
>>10 dmg / 20 delay = 0.5 damage per unit of time
>>20 dmg / 20 delay = 1.0 damage per unit of time (a 1:1 ratio)
>>30 dmg / 20 delay = 1.5 damage per unit of time
>>
>>Depending on your class, don't forget that the higher the ratio the
more
>>aggro each potential swing delivers.
>
>
> So it really is as simple as a straight ratio? Damn, I was thinking
> there were several aspect to this. Too easy.
>
> Thanks for the reply and clarification. Berserker is the class and
> both weapons are 2hs. Thinking I'll stay with what I have since the
> slight upgrade for the proc will cost me greatly. Not doing bad with
> the current weapon just always on the lookout for better.
>
> From most conversations I've had in game it seems my current weapon is
> the best I can get (lvl restrictions) until my epic 1.0. Now that
> weapon is cool.
>
It's more complicated than that.
If you look at the weapons, it will show you what your damage bonus is
with each weapon.
For your main hand, calculate (2xDmg + Bonus)/Dly.
For your off hand, it's (2xDmg + 1)/Dly.
These would be the numbers to compare to see which weapon is more DPS,
not including procs.
Your damage bonus will vary depending on your level and class.
--
Graeme Faelban, 70 Shaman, <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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External
Since: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Tony Evans <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in
news:4405e585$0$1175$bed64819@news.gradwell.net:
> In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier RemoveThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>Your damage bonus will vary depending on your level and class.
>
> Also, damage bonus on 1 handed weapons is based purely on your level
> and class. Damage bonus on 2 handed weapons is based on the weapon's
> delay.
>
> i.e. if your bonus is 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 30 sword, it's
> also 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 10 sword.
>
Yes, but you still need to calculate the ratio with the damage bonus in
order to see which is best to use.
--
Graeme Faelban, 70 Shaman <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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External
Since: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Tony Evans <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in news:4405e51a$0$1175$bed64819
@news.gradwell.net:
> In alt.games.everquest, Faeandar <mr_castalot.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>So it really is as simple as a straight ratio? Damn, I was thinking
>>there were several aspect to this. Too easy.
>
> I wrote,
>
>>>There are other factors to take into account, but in general, the higher
>>>the ratio, or the higher the damage per unit of delay, the more DPS a
>>>weapon will deliver.
>
> So, no, it's not quite as simple, but it's a good starting place.
>
>>Thanks for the reply and clarification. Berserker is the class and
>>both weapons are 2hs. Thinking I'll stay with what I have since the
>>slight upgrade for the proc will cost me greatly. Not doing bad with
>>the current weapon just always on the lookout for better.
>
> Well, as others have pointed out, two handed weapons also have a damage
> bonus associated with them. Slower weapons tend to have a larger damage
> bonus. That affects the DPS of the weapon as well and needs to be taken
> into account.
>
Both 2 Handers, and 1 Handers have a damage bonus which needs to be taken
into acount.
--
Graeme Faelban, 70 Shaman <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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External
Since: Nov 20, 2004
Posts: 62
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Tony Evans <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
: Also, damage bonus on 1 handed weapons is based purely on your level and
: class. Damage bonus on 2 handed weapons is based on the weapon's delay.
: i.e. if your bonus is 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 30 sword, it's also
: 15 with a 1 handed slashing delay 10 sword.
That's not true, I have a 13/17 1hs and it's bonus at L70 is like 13 or
something. With my War 1.5 it's bonus is in the 20s iirc, due to it
being a slower delay than the 13/17.
K >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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External
Since: Dec 22, 2004
Posts: 140
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:18 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Tony Evans wrote:
> In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >> Well, as others have pointed out, two handed weapons also have a damage
> >> bonus associated with them. Slower weapons tend to have a larger damage
> >> bonus. That affects the DPS of the weapon as well and needs to be taken
> >> into account.
>
> >Both 2 Handers, and 1 Handers have a damage bonus which needs to be taken
> >into acount.
>
> Yes, I know. But if you're comparing two 1-handed weapons, the weapon
> bonuses are identical and hence can be ignored for the comparison.
Huh?
Take two one-handed weapons:
1) Dmg 15; Dly 15
2) Dmg 20; Dly 20
Both have exactly the same 1:1 ratio. If there were no damage bonus,
both weapons would do equivalent DPS. However once there is a damage
bonus added, the faster weapon gains the advantage because the bonus is
added equally to both, regardless of delay.
Has this changed or been somehow proven wrong lately? >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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External
Since: Mar 04, 2006
Posts: 78
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: dmg/delay question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Tony Evans <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in
news:4408b95a$0$1168$bed64819@news.gradwell.net:
> In alt.games.everquest, Richard <richardrapier DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>> Well, as others have pointed out, two handed weapons also have a
>>> damage bonus associated with them. Slower weapons tend to have a
>>> larger damage bonus. That affects the DPS of the weapon as well and
>>> needs to be taken into account.
>
>>Both 2 Handers, and 1 Handers have a damage bonus which needs to be
>>taken into acount.
>
> Yes, I know. But if you're comparing two 1-handed weapons, the weapon
> bonuses are identical and hence can be ignored for the comparison.
>
No, you cannot ignore the bonuses.
Take a 12/20 weapon versus a 24/40 weapon.
(12*2+15)/20 = 1.95
(24*2+15)/40 = 1.575
Even though the damage to delay ratio is identical, the first weapon is far
superior.
--
Graeme Faelban, 70 Shaman <Sanctuary of Marr> Erolissi Marr >> Stay informed about: dmg/delay question |
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