Two questions

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:47:11 -0500, Catriona R wrote
(in article <67h13iF2o7doeU2 DeleteThis @mid.individual.net>):

> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:42:34 -0500, Daniel Seriff <m DeleteThis @y.com> wrote:
>
>> WTF? If I knew where he was already, why would I have asked the question in
>> the first place? Doesn't the very fact that I asked the question at all
>> rather strongly imply that I've never talked to him before, and don't, in
>> fact, know where he is?
>
> Erm, not really. Try wording it in a way that makes it clear you don't know
> where he is...

I'm still trying to figure out which part of my question suggested that I
did. The only explanation I've seen so far is "well, I just assumed you knew
where he was already."

> that most definitely did not, just sounded like you (as a
> lot of us) like to keep quests until you know the current day's one is
> better.

Then what you actually did was to make an assumption about my state of
knowledge based on your own state of knowledge, rather than on the question I
was actually asking.

--
Daniel Seriff

Your entire ass? Packed full of red hot coals?
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In <0001HW.C43A838A0143CDCDF0182668.DeleteThis@news-server.austin.rr.com> Daniel Seriff <m.DeleteThis@y.com> writes:

> OK. When asking questions in the future, I will remember to take into account
> that many if not most of you are slavishly literal thinkers with absolutely
> no ability to effectively model the mental states of other people.

In case you've forgotten, here is the question you asked:

"Other than asking in trade, how do I find out what the daily heroic is?"

I'm curious how you expect us to deduce that, Aha!, he *actually* wanted
to know where the questgiver is.

Perhaps the missing link here is that it's fairly common for people to ask
what the daily heroic is, even when you've done the heroic daily many times
and know exactly where the questgiver is.

If you are holding on to a previous day's quest, you might want to know
what the current heroic is so you can decide whether to drop the old one.

Daily heroics aren't sharable, so if you get an invite to a dungeon you
might want to know if it's the daily, so you can make arrangements to
travel to shatt to pick up the quest before starting.

So, as you can see, there are certainly reasons why someone might want
to find out what the daily heroic is, even if they've done it before.

I don't know why you are averse to asking in trade, but given that
restriction, we gave you the best possible answer.

--
John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon.DeleteThis@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
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On Apr 27, 8:33 pm, Daniel Seriff <m... RemoveThis @y.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:47:11 -0500, Catriona R wrote
> (in article <67h13iF2o7do... RemoveThis @mid.individual.net>):
>
> > On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:42:34 -0500, Daniel Seriff <m... RemoveThis @y.com> wrote:
>
> >> WTF? If I knew where he was already, why would I have asked the question in
> >> the first place? Doesn't the very fact that I asked the question at all
> >> rather strongly imply that I've never talked to him before, and don't, in
> >> fact, know where he is?
>
> > Erm, not really. Try wording it in a way that makes it clear you don't know
> > where he is...
>
> I'm still trying to figure out which part of my question suggested that I
> did. The only explanation I've seen so far is "well, I just assumed you knew
> where he was already."
>
> > that most definitely did not, just sounded like you (as a
> > lot of us) like to keep quests until you know the current day's one is
> > better.
>
> Then what you actually did was to make an assumption about my state of
> knowledge based on your own state of knowledge, rather than on the question I
> was actually asking.
>
> --
> Daniel Seriff
>
> Your entire ass? Packed full of red hot coals?

You didn't imply that you knew where he was, but you also didn't imply
that you didn't know where he was. Perhaps the fault may lie on both
sides, but you're still the one who picked a fight over it.
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On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:48:47 -0500, Daniel Seriff wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:33:28 -0500, Ashen Shugar wrote
> > I think it was Daniel Seriff <m.TakeThisOut@y.com> that wrote something like...
> >
> > I quote:
> > "1) Other than asking in trade, how do I find out what the daily
> > heroic is?"
> >
> > Where in that are you asking how to find the quest giver?
>
> Where in that did I imply that I knew where he was

You are correct in that you did not.

> and what possible valid reason could anyone have to automatically assume
> that I did?

As others have pointed out to you, there are many people who have done
the daily heroic quest and know where the quest giver is. It is also common
for such people to accept the daily heroic quest but not do get around doing
them on that they. So they will have an "old" daily heroic quest in their
quest log and might want to find out what the current daily quest is in
order to decide, whether to rather do the one they have or to abandon it and
pick up the new one.

Now, today there are 2 ways to find out:
- Option A: you ask on the trade channel, this allows you to still do the
old one if you prefer it to the new one
- Option B: you abandon the old one, ask the quest giver but this of course
means you loose your option to do the old oen if you diskliek the new one
- Option C: you go to the quest giver and look at the holograms. provided
that you know what each hologram means, you still have the chance to weigh
the old and new quests against each other

Since it's been quite a while since daily heroic quests were added, it's not
all that far fetched to assume that you would know where the quest giver is
and that you were asking, about any other options than A and B (if it even
existed).

You could have simply just said "Thanks for your answer, unfortunately I
don't know where the quest giver is".

Instead you took umbrage at the use of the word "obviously" and when people
tried to explain why in their eyes it could have seemed obvious you reverted
to using foul language. Repeatedly. While people politely disagreed with
you.

If this is the way you treat people trying to help you - even if they don't
get it right the first time - you're not likely to get much more help in
this group.

Certainly not from me.

*plonk*

Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (70), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (24), Draenei Mage
Mymule (70), Gnomish Warlock | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
Sunh (70), Nightelven Priest | Gera (26), Human Paladin
 >> Stay informed about: Two questions 

>> I quote:
>> "1) Other than asking in trade, how do I find out what the daily
>> heroic is?"
>>
>> Where in that are you asking how to find the quest giver?
>
> Where in that did I imply that I knew where he was, and what possible
> valid
> reason could anyone have to automatically assume that I did?

What's the use of a quest you can't hand in?
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:26:15 +0000 (UTC), John Gordon
<gordon.DeleteThis@panix.com> wrote:

>In <0001HW.C43A838A0143CDCDF0182668.DeleteThis@news-server.austin.rr.com> Daniel Seriff <m.DeleteThis@y.com> writes:
>
>> OK. When asking questions in the future, I will remember to take into account
>> that many if not most of you are slavishly literal thinkers with absolutely
>> no ability to effectively model the mental states of other people.
>
>In case you've forgotten, here is the question you asked:
>
> "Other than asking in trade, how do I find out what the daily heroic is?"
>
>I'm curious how you expect us to deduce that, Aha!, he *actually* wanted
>to know where the questgiver is.

Because he's a tosser. Oh, and only he's allowed to make assumptions



Palindrome
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"Daniel Seriff" <m.RemoveThis@y.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C43A838A0143CDCDF0182668@news-server.austin.rr.com...
> OK. When asking questions in the future, I will remember to take into
> account
> that many if not most of you are slavishly literal thinkers with
> absolutely
> no ability to effectively model the mental states of other people.
>

When answering your questions in the future, I will remember to take into
account that you're now in my killfile.

*plonk*

-I
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"Daniel Seriff" <m DeleteThis @y.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C4383A3100BA9CE7F0407668@news-server.austin.rr.com...>
> When someone asks you where to buy apples, you don't answer with "talk
> to the
> guy who sells apples." Because that's a completely useless answer in
> every conceivable way.

If you want to find the apples, look for an army of ogres in lower city.
 >> Stay informed about: Two questions 

Daniel Seriff <m RemoveThis @y.com> writes:
>latter usage to be patronizing and not a little insulting. It's not like the
>guy has a big neon sign above his head that says "get your daily heroics
>right here," so I fail to see how this is obvious in any way.

Actually, the questgivers come as close to having a neon sign as is
possible in the game.

>Plus, "the questgiver in Lower City" isn't very specific, as directions go.
>Lower City is a big place with lots of different people in it, and many of
>them are questgivers. A name or a particular part of Lower City would be much
>more helpful.

It takes 10 seconds to fly the length of it looking for questgivers. Cope. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
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Daniel Seriff <m.RemoveThis@y.com> writes:
>I'm still trying to figure out which part of my question suggested that I
>did. The only explanation I've seen so far is "well, I just assumed you knew
>where he was already."

Asking "how do I find out which is the daily heroic?" suggests you have
familiarity with them, and had done them before. It was a very badly worded
question.

>Then what you actually did was to make an assumption about my state of
>knowledge based on your own state of knowledge, rather than on the question I
>was actually asking.

Who the hell cares? Get over yourself. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: Two questions 

Daniel Seriff <m RemoveThis @y.com> writes:
>OK. When asking questions in the future, I will remember to take into account
>that many if not most of you are slavishly literal thinkers with absolutely
>no ability to effectively model the mental states of other people.

Wow, you're a real moron. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
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On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 19:48:47 -0500, Daniel Seriff wrote:

> I'm still waiting for someone to explain how my question in any way implied
> that I already knew who the daily heroic questgiver was.

Well your question said apart from the trade channel where can you find out
about the daily.

this implies that you know what a daily is and further that you may well
have done some.

the question seem to ask hey is there a noticeboard or something that tells
us what the daily is so i know its worth doing.

> Considering that none of you actually helped me, I'm not particularly broken
> up about it.

Well if your wanting to get more info out of the people on her your going
about it the wrong way. there is a lot of smart people on here and if your
willing to listen to what they say you will lurn a thing or 2.
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Daniel Seriff wrote:
> WTF? If I knew where he was already, why would I have asked the question in
> the first place? Doesn't the very fact that I asked the question at all
> rather strongly imply that I've never talked to him before, and don't, in
> fact, know where he is?

Daniel, you asked an unclear question, which is clear because EVERYONE
misinterpreted it. Now you are getting angry with someone who
clarified their answer once you pointed out the problem with
everyone's interpretation of your question. You aren't making any
friends here.

Hoofu, 70 tauren shaman, Argent Dawn (EU)
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