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External
Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:33 pm
Post subject: damage scales
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>gurps (more info?)
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A friend and I were discussing recently the damage scale that the old
West End Games Star Wars system used. Differing levels, from personal,
to vehicular, to starfighter, to capital vessel, to Death Star. (I
might be forgetting something in the mix, but that's basically it.)
To keep from rollling hordes of dice when two capital ships are firing
at each other, their damage scale meant that an attack causing 6 points
of capital-ship ship damage, would be like 60 points, or 600, at the
personal scale. I'd have to go back to my hometown to dig up the old
rulebooks, and figure out exactly how it worked, but it isn't really
germaine to my main point, which is...
could GURPS do that? If you're running a space-opera style campaign, or
Mecha, would it be simpler to just resolve that sort of damage at a
different scale than what applies to regular humanoid (mostly)
characters?
What impressed me originally was the elegance of that sort of game
mechanic. I'm betting GURPS can incorporate this elegance. |
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External
Since: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:49 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 12 Oct 2006 23:33:30 -0700, "TypewriterLove" <jmehmel DeleteThis @gmail.com>
wrote:
>A friend and I were discussing recently the damage scale that the old
>West End Games Star Wars system used. Differing levels, from personal,
>to vehicular, to starfighter, to capital vessel, to Death Star. (I
>might be forgetting something in the mix, but that's basically it.)
>
>To keep from rollling hordes of dice when two capital ships are firing
>at each other, their damage scale meant that an attack causing 6 points
>of capital-ship ship damage, would be like 60 points, or 600, at the
>personal scale. I'd have to go back to my hometown to dig up the old
>rulebooks, and figure out exactly how it worked, but it isn't really
>germaine to my main point, which is...
>
>could GURPS do that? If you're running a space-opera style campaign, or
>Mecha, would it be simpler to just resolve that sort of damage at a
>different scale than what applies to regular humanoid (mostly)
>characters?
>
>What impressed me originally was the elegance of that sort of game
>mechanic. I'm betting GURPS can incorporate this elegance.
I remember that there was a comment in one of the books that read
roughly: Any hit by a ships weapon verses as a PC/NPC should be
considered enough damage to be disintegration/instant death etc. I do
not remember other rules as my group did not play space campaigns that
often.
--
Grant |
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External
Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 12 Oct 2006 23:33:30 -0700, "TypewriterLove" <jmehmel.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
wrote:
>A friend and I were discussing recently the damage scale that the old
>West End Games Star Wars system used. Differing levels, from personal,
>to vehicular, to starfighter, to capital vessel, to Death Star. (I
>might be forgetting something in the mix, but that's basically it.)
>
>To keep from rollling hordes of dice when two capital ships are firing
>at each other, their damage scale meant that an attack causing 6 points
>of capital-ship ship damage, would be like 60 points, or 600, at the
>personal scale. I'd have to go back to my hometown to dig up the old
>rulebooks, and figure out exactly how it worked, but it isn't really
>germaine to my main point, which is...
>
>could GURPS do that?
GURPS already does that. Scaling Damage, page 470. >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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External
Since: Nov 17, 2004
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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TypewriterLove banged his head on the keyboard and produced:
> could GURPS do that? If you're running a space-opera style campaign,
> or Mecha, would it be simpler to just resolve that sort of damage at a
> different scale than what applies to regular humanoid (mostly)
> characters?
GURPS Space 3e did that for Starship combat. It used cDam, cHP, and cDR as
multiples of 100 damage, 100 HP, and 100 DR. As David mentioned, this has
been incorporated into the Basic Set as Scaling Damage for both D-Scale
(x10) and C-Scale (x100). There's no reason it couldn't be extrapolated out
to K-Scale (kilo-, x1000), or beyond.
--
Eric B. Smith http://www.geocities.com/ericbsmith
GURPS Data File Coordinator
Telekinesis: It's the thought that counts. >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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External
Since: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 1083
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Eric B. Smith wrote:
> TypewriterLove banged his head on the keyboard and produced:
>>could GURPS do that? If you're running a space-opera style campaign,
>>or Mecha, would it be simpler to just resolve that sort of damage at a
>>different scale than what applies to regular humanoid (mostly)
>>characters?
>
> GURPS Space 3e did that for Starship combat. It used cDam, cHP, and cDR as
> multiples of 100 damage, 100 HP, and 100 DR. As David mentioned, this has
> been incorporated into the Basic Set as Scaling Damage for both D-Scale
> (x10) and C-Scale (x100). There's no reason it couldn't be extrapolated out
> to K-Scale (kilo-, x1000), or beyond.
Secondly, it wasn't really needed, since GURPS 3E topped out at 6d6 for
damage dice rolls. Any damage beyond 6d6 was handled with a multiplier,
e.g. 5d6*2 or 6d6*577, so that at no time would more than 6 dice be rolled.
However, while there was (and is) no need for such a mechanic (also
found in the Palladium system, or so I've read), it may cause things to
move faster, because you won't have to juggle four-digit numbers.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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External
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 35
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Peter Knutsen <peter RemoveThis @sagatafl.invalid> writes:
> Secondly, it wasn't really needed, since GURPS 3E topped out at 6d6
> for damage dice rolls. Any damage beyond 6d6 was handled with a
> multiplier, e.g. 5d6*2 or 6d6*577, so that at no time would more than
> 6 dice be rolled.
Cite? I had to roll damage of 7d+1 myself just two days ago, and if I
bothered to walk over to my bookshelf, I could find several more examples.
Charlton >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:54 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> > To keep from rollling hordes of dice when two capital ships are firing
> > at each other, their damage scale meant that an attack causing 6 points
> > of capital-ship ship damage, would be like 60 points, or 600, at the
> > personal scale. I'd have to go back to my hometown to dig up the old
> > rulebooks, and figure out exactly how it worked, but it isn't really
> > germaine to my main point, which is...
> > could GURPS do that?
> Sure, the earlier editions of space did things exactly that way: but then
> people wanted to convert from one type of damage to the other. Me, I've
> always been keen on saying, 'OK, you need to roll 3000d so roll 3d and
> multiply by 1000.
>
> John
> --
Oh, certainly, multiplying is generally easy, but if you've got two
combatants at the same scale, why bother including the multiplication?
For me, the elegance of the scaling mechanism creates a better system,
a more intuitive one, something that might feel closer to, if not
reality, then what I might want reality to be in my games.
It shouldn't surprise me that GURPS has already done something like
this, though... >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 1083
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:55 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Charlton Wilbur wrote:
> Peter Knutsen <peter DeleteThis @sagatafl.invalid> writes:
>>Secondly, it wasn't really needed, since GURPS 3E topped out at 6d6
>>for damage dice rolls. Any damage beyond 6d6 was handled with a
>>multiplier, e.g. 5d6*2 or 6d6*577, so that at no time would more than
>>6 dice be rolled.
>
> Cite? I had to roll damage of 7d+1 myself just two days ago, and if I
> bothered to walk over to my bookshelf, I could find several more examples.
I'm not sure, that has just been my general impression of how things are
supposed to work. Maybe somewhere in Vehicles 2E.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Peter Knutsen wrote:
> Charlton Wilbur wrote:
>> Peter Knutsen <peter DeleteThis @sagatafl.invalid> writes:
>>>Secondly, it wasn't really needed, since GURPS 3E topped out at 6d6
>>>for damage dice rolls. Any damage beyond 6d6 was handled with a
>>>multiplier, e.g. 5d6*2 or 6d6*577, so that at no time would more than
>>>6 dice be rolled.
>>
>> Cite? I had to roll damage of 7d+1 myself just two days ago, and if I
>> bothered to walk over to my bookshelf, I could find several more
>> examples.
>
> I'm not sure, that has just been my general impression of how things are
> supposed to work. Maybe somewhere in Vehicles 2E.
High Tech and Vehicles use it for large explosions and big weapons.
A pound of TNT is 6d x 2 (HT 23), and everything is supposed to scale up
from there (described in High Tech) according to explosive power (so
100 pounds of TNT is 6d x 200).
I don't think it's a rule, just a guideline for big weapons which tend
to do lots of damage. Typical firearms or melee weapons don't use this
though, and tend to be a bit more fine grained.
--
Be seeing you,
Sam. >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:01:03 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman DeleteThis @block.net>
wrote:
>On 12 Oct 2006 23:33:30 -0700, "TypewriterLove" <jmehmel DeleteThis @gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>A friend and I were discussing recently the damage scale that the old
>>West End Games Star Wars system used. Differing levels, from personal,
>>to vehicular, to starfighter, to capital vessel, to Death Star. (I
>>might be forgetting something in the mix, but that's basically it.)
>>
>>To keep from rollling hordes of dice when two capital ships are firing
>>at each other, their damage scale meant that an attack causing 6 points
>>of capital-ship ship damage, would be like 60 points, or 600, at the
>>personal scale. I'd have to go back to my hometown to dig up the old
>>rulebooks, and figure out exactly how it worked, but it isn't really
>>germaine to my main point, which is...
>>
>>could GURPS do that?
>
>GURPS already does that. Scaling Damage, page 470.
Excuse me. GURPS 4th edition already does that. >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 1083
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Johnston wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:01:03 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net>
> wrote:
>>GURPS already does that. Scaling Damage, page 470.
>
> Excuse me. GURPS 4th edition already does that.
Your previous post obviously referred to 4E, since no pre-4E book has
anywhere near 470 pages.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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External
Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I just found that reference in my own GURPS 4E book, thanks for
pointing it out!
The book still suggests dividng the numbers down before the combat, and
multiplying them back up afterwards, though.
Going back to the notion of elegance in the Star Wars West End
products, the weapons, vehichles, or what-have-you would simply be
listed as 'capital' or 'starfighter' scale, meaning that in a battle on
the same scale, there's no math involved, beyond the normal charting of
successes, losses, and damage.
I suppose that could more of a house-rule, for homebuilt campaigns,
(such as one that I'm working on) to simply list the mecha, for
example, at decade scale, the starships at century scale, planetary
bombardment at kilo(millenium?) scale... and so on. >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:32:41 +0200, Peter Knutsen
<peter RemoveThis @sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:01:03 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman RemoveThis @block.net>
>> wrote:
>>>GURPS already does that. Scaling Damage, page 470.
>>
>> Excuse me. GURPS 4th edition already does that.
>
>Your previous post obviously referred to 4E, since no pre-4E book has
>anywhere near 470 pages.
Yes I know, but it occured to me that someone who didn't have 4e might
not. >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 55
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"TypewriterLove" <jmehmel DeleteThis @gmail.com> writes:
> I suppose that could more of a house-rule, for homebuilt campaigns,
> (such as one that I'm working on) to simply list the mecha, for
> example, at decade scale, the starships at century scale, planetary
> bombardment at kilo(millenium?) scale... and so on.
If your planetary bombardments are on a thousand-year scale, I hope
you're not expecting to win 
--
\ "You know I could rent you out as a decoy for duck hunters?" |
`\ -- Groucho Marx |
_o__) |
Ben Finney >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 181
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: damage scales [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 15 Oct 2006 14:12:52 -0700, "TypewriterLove" <jmehmel.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I just found that reference in my own GURPS 4E book, thanks for
>pointing it out!
>
>
>
>The book still suggests dividng the numbers down before the combat, and
>multiplying them back up afterwards, though.
>
Well, I've never had much trouble moving a decimal point, but there's
no real need to convert back except to avoid confusion for new people
who might get a false idea of how tough a battleship really is. >> Stay informed about: damage scales |
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