%crit versus spell damage

Mats Nilsson wrote:
> i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like that
> English is apparently not my native language, but i hope you understand the
> question.

1% crit spell damage is about 17 spell damage.
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

you might wanna check the sticky on europe warcraft which goes over
this issue:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=47014890&sid=1

"How much +damage equals one % crit?
The simple answer is about 10. Unless you like maths use the value 10,
it's close enough. The hard answer is what follows. "


Mats Nilsson wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Tried to search through the NG but failed to find a post relating to my
> question:
>
> Is there a way to tell how much spell damage an item with +% to crit
> corresponds to?
> i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like that
> English is apparently not my native language, but i hope you understand the
> question.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Massa
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:23:37 +0200, "Mats Nilsson"
<muskel.DeleteThis@hotmail.bort> wrote:

>Tried to search through the NG but failed to find a post relating to my
>question:

There has been a few, but none of them gave any answer as specific as
you would like.

>Is there a way to tell how much spell damage an item with +% to crit
>corresponds to?
>i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like that

No, that is the problem - you can't really do that...

If you do 200% damage on a crit, then you gain about 1% dps per 1%
crit gained - if you only do 150% on a crit you only gain 0.5% dps per
1% crit gained.

How much +damage you need in order to gain 1% dps depends on how much
damage you do with your spells.

If you have 500 +damage then 1% crit is worth more than if you only
have 50 +damage.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

"steve.kaye" <nospam DeleteThis @giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1161951533.305401.218890@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mats Nilsson wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > Tried to search through the NG but failed to find a post relating to my
> > question:
> >
> > Is there a way to tell how much spell damage an item with +% to crit
> > corresponds to?
> > i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like
that
> > English is apparently not my native language, but i hope you understand
the
> > question.
>
> I don't think that it's a simple 1% crit = +X spell damage comparison.
> +spell damage doesn't scale with base damage so a hard hitting spell
> wouldn't benefit as much as lower damage spell.
>
> I'll take it to extremes to help explain:
> 100 damage spell would do 115 damage with a +15 spell damage bonus =
> 115% damage
> 1000 damage spell would do 1015 damage with a +15 spell damage bonus
> = 101.5% damage
>
> Also, spells that take less than 3s to cast have a reduced benefit from
> +spell damage.
>
> A 1% crit will always be the same bonus to DPS proportionally so a 100
> damage spell will do an average of 101 and a 1000 damage spell will do
> an average of 1010 damage.
>
> I believe that an add-on called TheoryCraft will help you decide what
> is best for you but I've never used it so I couldn't say.
>
> steve.kaye
>

Thank you for your reply. It's not always easy to figure things out in this
game.
A fellow guildie brought a new aspect into it too, that critting too much
could cause aggro problems. This i've never thought of. Might be smarter to
aim for a high + damage which would make the DPS-curve more smooth, instead
of violent crit peaks. Aggro is not a locks' best friend.

Having /played 30 days, i'm still a nub!!

again, ty for you response Steve.

--
Massa
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

"Mats Nilsson" <muskel.TakeThisOut@hotmail.bort> wrote in message
news:ehsue3$um2$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
>
> "steve.kaye" <nospam.TakeThisOut@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1161951533.305401.218890@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Mats Nilsson wrote:
>> > Hi!
>> >
>> > Tried to search through the NG but failed to find a post relating to my
>> > question:
>> >
>> > Is there a way to tell how much spell damage an item with +% to crit
>> > corresponds to?
>> > i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like
> that
>> > English is apparently not my native language, but i hope you understand
> the
>> > question.
>>
>> I don't think that it's a simple 1% crit = +X spell damage comparison.
>> +spell damage doesn't scale with base damage so a hard hitting spell
>> wouldn't benefit as much as lower damage spell.
>>
>> I'll take it to extremes to help explain:
>> 100 damage spell would do 115 damage with a +15 spell damage bonus =
>> 115% damage
>> 1000 damage spell would do 1015 damage with a +15 spell damage bonus
>> = 101.5% damage
>>
>> Also, spells that take less than 3s to cast have a reduced benefit from
>> +spell damage.
>>
>> A 1% crit will always be the same bonus to DPS proportionally so a 100
>> damage spell will do an average of 101 and a 1000 damage spell will do
>> an average of 1010 damage.
>>
>> I believe that an add-on called TheoryCraft will help you decide what
>> is best for you but I've never used it so I couldn't say.
>>
>> steve.kaye
>>
>
> Thank you for your reply. It's not always easy to figure things out in
> this
> game.
> A fellow guildie brought a new aspect into it too, that critting too much
> could cause aggro problems. This i've never thought of. Might be smarter
> to
> aim for a high + damage which would make the DPS-curve more smooth,
> instead
> of violent crit peaks. Aggro is not a locks' best friend.
>
> Having /played 30 days, i'm still a nub!!
>
> again, ty for you response Steve.
>

In my old guild we had a warlock who based his talents and gear around
+crit. Needless to say, it was always him that Broodlord Lashlayer,
Chromaggus or Nefarian went after when aggro was drawn off the MT (due to
fears/Time Lapse etc). The latter two might be due to his apparent
inability to move into the Time Lapse/Fear range, however, instead opting to
continually pummel the boss in question

--
Sue
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

Mats Nilsson wrote:
> "steve.kaye" <nospam.TakeThisOut@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1161951533.305401.218890@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Mats Nilsson wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> Tried to search through the NG but failed to find a post relating to my
>>> question:
>>>
>>> Is there a way to tell how much spell damage an item with +% to crit
>>> corresponds to?
>>> i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like
> that
>>> English is apparently not my native language, but i hope you understand
> the
>>> question.
>> I don't think that it's a simple 1% crit = +X spell damage comparison.
>> +spell damage doesn't scale with base damage so a hard hitting spell
>> wouldn't benefit as much as lower damage spell.
>>
>> I'll take it to extremes to help explain:
>> 100 damage spell would do 115 damage with a +15 spell damage bonus =
>> 115% damage
>> 1000 damage spell would do 1015 damage with a +15 spell damage bonus
>> = 101.5% damage
>>
>> Also, spells that take less than 3s to cast have a reduced benefit from
>> +spell damage.
>>
>> A 1% crit will always be the same bonus to DPS proportionally so a 100
>> damage spell will do an average of 101 and a 1000 damage spell will do
>> an average of 1010 damage.
>>
>> I believe that an add-on called TheoryCraft will help you decide what
>> is best for you but I've never used it so I couldn't say.
>>
>> steve.kaye
>>
>
> Thank you for your reply. It's not always easy to figure things out in this
> game.
> A fellow guildie brought a new aspect into it too, that critting too much
> could cause aggro problems. This i've never thought of. Might be smarter to
> aim for a high + damage which would make the DPS-curve more smooth, instead
> of violent crit peaks. Aggro is not a locks' best friend.

As has been said, there is no direct relationship between crit and
+spell damage. Both have their uses. If you're in for burst-damage,
+crit is generally better (not by itself alone but for the boost it can
provide together with other factors such as +extra bonus damage on crit
talents). So for PVP and other burst-damage situations, +crit is very
useful.

For sustained higher damage, a generic +spelldamage is "always on", so
on average more useful.

But again, real comparisons are hard, because there are just too many
factors involved. So this is all very generally spoken. Best is of
course to have both sufficently, but you usually want to put far more
weight into one over another, depending on situation and playstyle. You
shouldn't totally neglect either one, though.

> Having /played 30 days, i'm still a nub!!

Having played almost since EU release, I still find out new stuff and
have complete areas where I'm not much into the details (for me, that's
melee classes and mechanics).

Blizzard always strifes to make games that are easy to learn but hard to
master. This one is no exception. Luckily, you don't need to be a master
in order to have fun here

CU

René
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

"Sprite" <sue.kitchen DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> writes:
>In my old guild we had a warlock who based his talents and gear around
>+crit. Needless to say, it was always him that Broodlord Lashlayer,

Most of us do - we have a ton of talents which raise crit %, and then we
also have a talent called ruin which doubles damage of all crits. An
experienced warlock knows how to pace themselves so that they're not
pulling aggro. Just because you CAN cast shadowbolts effectively forever in
a raid doesn't mean you should do so. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

Rene <invalid.DeleteThis@email.addr> writes:
>As has been said, there is no direct relationship between crit and
>+spell damage. Both have their uses. If you're in for burst-damage,

Actually, there is a very simple formula - just multiply your base spell
damage by .005 (.01 for double crits like warlocks get with ruin). If your
spell does 500 damage, 1% crit is the same thing as adding 2.5 points
of +damage, averaged over time.

The best thing about +crit is that it scales with the spell, and isn't
affected by the penalties for fast spells. +damage is always present, but
you don't get the full amount stated, unless all you cast are 3.5 second
spells. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

<killmyspam.RemoveThis@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1161962741.984480.242460@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Mats Nilsson wrote:
>> i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like that
>>
>> English is apparently not my native language, but i hope you understand
>> the
>> question.
>
> 1% crit spell damage is about 17 spell damage.
>
is it chuff
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

"Mats Nilsson" <muskel RemoveThis @hotmail.bort> wrote in message
news:ehsqb8$r6v$1@news.al.sw.ericsson.se...
> Hi!
>
> Tried to search through the NG but failed to find a post relating to my
> question:
>
> Is there a way to tell how much spell damage an item with +% to crit
> corresponds to?
> i.e. "Yes, 1 % crit is simular to 15 spell damage" or something like that
>
> English is apparently not my native language, but i hope you understand
> the
> question.
>
It varies depending which spells and talents you have / use most.

The simple answer for most practical cases is how much damage does your
average none crit favourite spell do? The spell you use most of the time?
That's the only one where this trade-off is worth considering.

for me it's a frostbolt doing around 1100 damage average.

a crit is worth 1100 more on top thanks to 5/5 iceshards.

so 1% crit for me is worth around +10 or +11 damage eqivalent. However given
the choice, I'd go for +10 dmg versus +1% crit with spells every time.
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

"PV" <pv+usenet@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:12k4872tkp3tm04@news.supernews.com...
> Rene <invalid.TakeThisOut@email.addr> writes:
>>As has been said, there is no direct relationship between crit and
>>+spell damage. Both have their uses. If you're in for burst-damage,
>
> Actually, there is a very simple formula - just multiply your base spell
> damage by .005 (.01 for double crits like warlocks get with ruin). If your
> spell does 500 damage, 1% crit is the same thing as adding 2.5 points
> of +damage, averaged over time.
>
> The best thing about +crit is that it scales with the spell, and isn't
> affected by the penalties for fast spells. +damage is always present, but
> you don't get the full amount stated, unless all you cast are 3.5 second
> spells. *
>
You only get a crit bonus on top of a normal damage spell where these
factors are already equated though. So it's not true to say that these
penalties don't apply to a crit because it is simply doubling (if talented)
the already modified and penalised normal spell damage.
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

JohnR wrote:
>
> The simple answer for most practical cases is how much damage does
> your average none crit favourite spell do? The spell you use most of
> the time? That's the only one where this trade-off is worth
> considering.

Wrong for a start - even if you spend 80% of your time casting one spell,
the other 20% is still important.

>
> for me it's a frostbolt doing around 1100 damage average.
>
> a crit is worth 1100 more on top thanks to 5/5 iceshards.
>
> so 1% crit for me is worth around +10 or +11 damage eqivalent.

No, it's worth 10-11 damage per spell. Frostbolt only gets ~80% benefit
from +damage due to the short casting time and snare effect, so in order to
get 10-11 damage per spell, you actually need to have 13 +damage , since 13
* 0.8 = 10.4

Besides, do you *really* spend most of your casts on that one spell? I know
that I'll cast a couple of frost bolts, toss in a fire blast, or I'll open
with a frost nova / cone of cold combo. AoE and instant spells gaing *much*
more from crit than they do from hit.

>
> However given the choice, I'd go for +10 dmg versus +1% crit with
> spells every time.

If you're only ever a raider, only ever chain-casting single-target spells,
then you're nearly right - except that the break-even point for long-term
damage is around +13-14 spelldamage, as covered above.

If you ever PvP, grind (and who doesn't grind money from time to time), or
use AoE (and who doesn't, seeing as it's *the* one thing mages are best at)
then it's harder to say. In the current itemisation budgets, +crit% is
scaled at around +16.5 damage, and I don't think that's far off the mark.

Personally, I have a set concentrating on +crit%, hit%, +int and mana/5
which I use for AoE fights, and another concentrating more closely on
+damage.

Peter
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage 

"Peter Ellis" <pjie2 DeleteThis @cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:4qgg0nFn06s8U1@individual.net...
> JohnR wrote:
> >
> > The simple answer for most practical cases is how much damage does
> > your average none crit favourite spell do? The spell you use most of
> > the time? That's the only one where this trade-off is worth
> > considering.
>
> Wrong for a start - even if you spend 80% of your time casting one spell,
> the other 20% is still important.
>
> >
> > for me it's a frostbolt doing around 1100 damage average.
> >
> > a crit is worth 1100 more on top thanks to 5/5 iceshards.
> >
> > so 1% crit for me is worth around +10 or +11 damage eqivalent.
>
> No, it's worth 10-11 damage per spell. Frostbolt only gets ~80% benefit
> from +damage due to the short casting time and snare effect, so in order
to
> get 10-11 damage per spell, you actually need to have 13 +damage , since
13
> * 0.8 = 10.4
>
No, I understand the numbers, 1100 is the damage I get after all the
multipliers. That's the damage i'm inflicting on mobs and that's why I said
"doing around 1100 average" because it does vary quite a bit on different
mobs depending on which debuffs are up, if CoE is up I get a great boost
etc.
My critical frostbolts get a 100% damage bonus so i get an extra 1100 each
critical strike. 1% crit gives me 1100 extra damage each 100 spells cast on
average. So like I said my favourite spell gets around +10-11 equivalent
damage on average from each 1% critical with spells.
>
> Besides, do you *really* spend most of your casts on that one spell? I
know
> that I'll cast a couple of frost bolts, toss in a fire blast, or I'll open
> with a frost nova / cone of cold combo. AoE and instant spells gaing
*much*
> more from crit than they do from hit.
>
I'm PvE and yes I spend 90%+ of my time spamming frostbolts. My spec is 28/0
If i'm in range to drop a fireblast I will do so but i won't go running into
range to do it.
>
> >
> > However given the choice, I'd go for +10 dmg versus +1% crit with
> > spells every time.
>
> If you're only ever a raider, only ever chain-casting single-target
spells,
> then you're nearly right - except that the break-even point for long-term
> damage is around +13-14 spelldamage, as covered above.
>
I prefer the threat management and control of +dmg.
>
> If you ever PvP,
>
Hate it - I don't have an ego to feed and find it incredibly dull.
>
> grind (and who doesn't grind money from time to time), or
> use AoE (and who doesn't, seeing as it's *the* one thing mages are best
at)
> then it's harder to say. In the current itemisation budgets, +crit% is
> scaled at around +16.5 damage, and I don't think that's far off the mark.
>
I have gear that lets me switch some crit if I want to stack but grinding
with T2 gear and above is really not difficult.
>
> Personally, I have a set concentrating on +crit%, hit%, +int and mana/5
> which I use for AoE fights, and another concentrating more closely on
> +damage.
>
I have a +hit% setup and a +dmg setup. Crit is not something I need or
desire unless it's "free". If I'm having to choose I'll take +dmg or +hit%
over +crit% every time. Most mobs I battle are lvl 62 or 63 so the 99% cap
is not a consideration I have to think about in most cases.
 >> Stay informed about: %crit versus spell damage