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Related Topics:
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3rd Edition Rules Questions - Just a few questions I have about some of the new cards. The White Wolf web-site does not yet have the official spoiler with official card text, so please excuse me if some of the wording on the new cards is off: #1. Raphael card text states..
(LSJ) A couple of dumb blocking Q's - Situation 1: Meth A bleeds Meth B. B plays Counter and reduces it to zero (or lower). Before playing any Meth A inquires as to whether Meth B will attempt to block the bleed for zero. Does Meth B have to specify at this stage..
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2008
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:13 am
Post subject: a couple of rules questions
Archived from groups: rec>games>trading-cards>jyhad (more info?)
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Quick one: If Shemti is ready and untapped and you are bled by another
vampire for 1, which Shemti reduces to 0 with superior Ecstasy, who
gets to order the effects? I'm assuming the acting methuselah can.
Assuming a vamp with 1 blood, he can either take the damage before
uselessly burning a blood, or he can burn the blood first if, say,
you've got his vamp in Temptation-lock and he wants it in torpor. Of
course, in the latter case, you can always play Ecstasy at inferior
instead.
Related question: Instead of Shemti, we have Ecstasy and Crocodile
Temple. In this case, I believe you can wait until after Ecstasy's
burn blood is applied before tapping the Crocodile Temple, since both
happen in the same window. (actually, since Croc is "at the end" of
an action, maybe you have no choice and *have* to wait until after
Ecstasy is resolved?)
Unrelated, but just checking: Scarce only causes you to pay extra pool
if a vamp is brought out during your *influence* phase, correct?
relevant card text:
Shemti, 9, vic OBF POT PRE SER, Followers of Set, 5, [LotN]
Independent: Shemti has1 vote (titled). While he is ready and
untapped, any minion successfully performing a (D) action against you
takes 1 damage (after resolving theaction).
Ecstasy, Reaction, Serpentis, C2 , [FN:C2/PS2]
[ser] Reduce a bleed against you by 1. [SER] As above, and if the
bleed resolves for 0 (or less), the acting minion burns 1 blood or
life (after resolving the action).
Crocodile Temple, The, Master, Followers of Set, R , [KMW]
Master: unique location. You may tap this card at the end of a
successful (D) action against you to inflict 1 damage on the acting
minion (after resolving the action). |
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Chris Berger wrote:
> Quick one: If Shemti is ready and untapped and you are bled by another
> vampire for 1, which Shemti reduces to 0 with superior Ecstasy, who
> gets to order the effects? I'm assuming the acting methuselah can.
> Assuming a vamp with 1 blood, he can either take the damage before
> uselessly burning a blood, or he can burn the blood first if, say,
> you've got his vamp in Temptation-lock and he wants it in torpor. Of
> course, in the latter case, you can always play Ecstasy at inferior
> instead.
>
> Related question: Instead of Shemti, we have Ecstasy and Crocodile
> Temple. In this case, I believe you can wait until after Ecstasy's
> burn blood is applied before tapping the Crocodile Temple, since both
> happen in the same window. (actually, since Croc is "at the end" of
> an action, maybe you have no choice and *have* to wait until after
> Ecstasy is resolved?)
>
> Unrelated, but just checking: Scarce only causes you to pay extra pool
> if a vamp is brought out during your *influence* phase, correct?
>
> relevant card text:
>
> Shemti, 9, vic OBF POT PRE SER, Followers of Set, 5, [LotN]
> Independent: Shemti has1 vote (titled). While he is ready and
> untapped, any minion successfully performing a (D) action against you
> takes 1 damage (after resolving theaction).
>
> Ecstasy, Reaction, Serpentis, C2 , [FN:C2/PS2]
> [ser] Reduce a bleed against you by 1. [SER] As above, and if the
> bleed resolves for 0 (or less), the acting minion burns 1 blood or
> life (after resolving the action).
>
> Crocodile Temple, The, Master, Followers of Set, R , [KMW]
> Master: unique location. You may tap this card at the end of a
> successful (D) action against you to inflict 1 damage on the acting
> minion (after resolving the action).
Both Shemti, and the Crocodile Temple require a successful (D) action.
A bleed for 1, reduced to 0 with ecstasy is no longer a successful
action, so neither effect kicks in. The acting minion would take 1
damage from the ecstasy, but Shemti and the Temple's effects do not
trigger, since at action resolution (after ecstasy has been played)
the action is unsuccessful. |
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:33 am
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 31 Jan, 14:28, LSJ <vtes... DeleteThis @white-wolf.com> wrote:
> tbz_be... DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> > Both Shemti, and the Crocodile Temple require a successful (D) action.
> > A bleed for 1, reduced to 0 with ecstasy is no longer a successful
> > action,
>
> An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
> to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
>
> The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is.
Really? Thats interesting, I'd always assumed that since the action
was bleed, and the bleed was unsuccessful, the action was unsuccessful. >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:42 am
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 31 Jan, 14:28, LSJ <vtes... RemoveThis @white-wolf.com> wrote:
> tbz_be... RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> > Both Shemti, and the Crocodile Temple require a successful (D) action.
> > A bleed for 1, reduced to 0 with ecstasy is no longer a successful
> > action,
>
> An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
> to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
>
> The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is.
For clarification then - a bleed bounced and not blocked by the new
target meth is a successful bleed - is it a successful action? Is the
lack of block the condition, or is it that the target has changed, so
the action is unsuccessful as declared? >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:49 am
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 31 Jan, 14:44, LSJ <vtes....RemoveThis@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> tbz_be....RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On 31 Jan, 14:28, LSJ <vtes....RemoveThis@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> >> tbz_be....RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>> Both Shemti, and the Crocodile Temple require a successful (D) action.
> >>> A bleed for 1, reduced to 0 with ecstasy is no longer a successful
> >>> action,
> >> An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
> >> to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
>
> >> The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is.
>
> > For clarification then - a bleed bounced and not blocked by the new
> > target meth is a successful bleed - is it a successful action?
>
> Yes. It reached resolution unblocked.
>
> > Is the
> > lack of block the condition, or is it that the target has changed, so
> > the action is unsuccessful as declared?
>
> It succeeds, with a valid target.
Thanks for that  >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 300
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Chris Berger wrote:
> Quick one: If Shemti is ready and untapped and you are bled by another
> vampire for 1, which Shemti reduces to 0 with superior Ecstasy, who
> gets to order the effects? I'm assuming the acting methuselah can.
Yes.
> Assuming a vamp with 1 blood, he can either take the damage before
> uselessly burning a blood, or he can burn the blood first if, say,
> you've got his vamp in Temptation-lock and he wants it in torpor. Of
> course, in the latter case, you can always play Ecstasy at inferior
> instead.
Sure.
> Related question: Instead of Shemti, we have Ecstasy and Crocodile
> Temple. In this case, I believe you can wait until after Ecstasy's
> burn blood is applied before tapping the Crocodile Temple, since both
> happen in the same window. (actually, since Croc is "at the end" of
> an action, maybe you have no choice and *have* to wait until after
> Ecstasy is resolved?)
Effectively, you *must* wait. The acting Methuselah cannot pass (instead of
applying the mandatory Ecstasy effect) in order for you to be able to tap the
Temple first.
> Unrelated, but just checking: Scarce only causes you to pay extra pool
> if a vamp is brought out during your *influence* phase, correct?
Yes.
relevant rules text:
Scarce: When a Methuselah moves a scarce vampire from her uncontrolled region to
her ready region during her influence phase, she must burn 3 pool for every
other vampire of the same clan already in play.
> relevant card text:
>
> Shemti, 9, vic OBF POT PRE SER, Followers of Set, 5, [LotN]
> Independent: Shemti has1 vote (titled). While he is ready and
> untapped, any minion successfully performing a (D) action against you
> takes 1 damage (after resolving theaction).
>
> Ecstasy, Reaction, Serpentis, C2 , [FN:C2/PS2]
> [ser] Reduce a bleed against you by 1. [SER] As above, and if the
> bleed resolves for 0 (or less), the acting minion burns 1 blood or
> life (after resolving the action).
>
> Crocodile Temple, The, Master, Followers of Set, R , [KMW]
> Master: unique location. You may tap this card at the end of a
> successful (D) action against you to inflict 1 damage on the acting
> minion (after resolving the action). >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 300
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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tbz_beast RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> Both Shemti, and the Crocodile Temple require a successful (D) action.
> A bleed for 1, reduced to 0 with ecstasy is no longer a successful
> action,
An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is. >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2006
Posts: 79
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:29 pm
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Chris Berger <arkayn DeleteThis @ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in news:48459044-95de-4985-
a328-efcb2c50b140 DeleteThis @c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
> Quick one: If Shemti is ready and untapped and you are bled by another
> vampire for 1, which Shemti reduces to 0 with superior Ecstasy, who
> gets to order the effects? I'm assuming the acting methuselah can.
Yes, when a target has multiple simultaneous effects to resolve, the
target's controller decides the order of resolution.
> Assuming a vamp with 1 blood, he can either take the damage before
> uselessly burning a blood, or he can burn the blood first if, say,
> you've got his vamp in Temptation-lock and he wants it in torpor. Of
> course, in the latter case, you can always play Ecstasy at inferior
> instead.
>
> Related question: Instead of Shemti, we have Ecstasy and Crocodile
> Temple. In this case, I believe you can wait until after Ecstasy's
> burn blood is applied before tapping the Crocodile Temple, since both
> happen in the same window. (actually, since Croc is "at the end" of
> an action, maybe you have no choice and *have* to wait until after
> Ecstasy is resolved?)
>
I'd agree. The "tap to" portion of Croc Temple puts the timing control
back into the hands of the controller of Croc Temple, and there is an
opportunity to tap it after the Ecstasy is resolved.
> Unrelated, but just checking: Scarce only causes you to pay extra pool
> if a vamp is brought out during your *influence* phase, correct?
>
Yes, the rulebook is explicit in stating this from;
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec11
"Scarce: When a Methuselah moves a scarce vampire from her uncontrolled
region to her ready region during her influence phase, she must burn 3
pool for every other vampire of the same clan already in play. "
DaveZ
Atom Weaver >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 300
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:43 pm
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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tbz_beast DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> On 31 Jan, 14:28, LSJ <vtes... DeleteThis @white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> tbz_be... DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Both Shemti, and the Crocodile Temple require a successful (D) action.
>>> A bleed for 1, reduced to 0 with ecstasy is no longer a successful
>>> action,
>> An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
>> to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
>>
>> The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is.
>
> Really? Thats interesting, I'd always assumed that since the action
> was bleed, and the bleed was unsuccessful, the action was unsuccessful.
Yeah, that's a problem with the dual use of "bleed".
Compare to "political action" and "referendum".
The action is "bleed action" the resolution package is "bleed".
referendums and bleeds may be unsuccessful even if their respective actions
(political actions and bleed actions) succeed. >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 300
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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tbz_beast.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 31 Jan, 14:28, LSJ <vtes....RemoveThis@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> tbz_be....RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Both Shemti, and the Crocodile Temple require a successful (D) action.
>>> A bleed for 1, reduced to 0 with ecstasy is no longer a successful
>>> action,
>> An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
>> to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
>>
>> The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is.
>
> For clarification then - a bleed bounced and not blocked by the new
> target meth is a successful bleed - is it a successful action?
Yes. It reached resolution unblocked.
> Is the
> lack of block the condition, or is it that the target has changed, so
> the action is unsuccessful as declared?
It succeeds, with a valid target. >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2008
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 31, 8:33 am, tbz_be....DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 31 Jan, 14:28, LSJ <vtes....DeleteThis@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
> > to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
>
> > The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is.
>
> Really? Thats interesting, I'd always assumed that since the action
> was bleed, and the bleed was unsuccessful, the action was unsuccessful.
>
Yeah, it is a little bit confusing, but trust me, it's better this
way. Otherwise you have weirdness like Freak Drive being unplayable
on a bleed that resolves for 0 (because inferior can only be used on a
successful action, and superior can only be used when blocked).
Although... there are some other cards now which cause an action to
just fail and also disallow Freak Drive completely - it seems a little
strange, and maybe Freak Drive should be reworded to "As above, but
playable on an unsuccessful action (play after combat, if any)." But
as it currently stands, Army of Apparitions (sup), for example, will
keep the acting minion from Freak Driving. >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jan 10, 2008
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:34 pm
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 116
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Chris Berger a écrit :
> On Jan 31, 8:33 am, tbz_be... RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On 31 Jan, 14:28, LSJ <vtes... RemoveThis @white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>An action that reaches resolution unblocked is successful (unless it fizzles due
>>>to the lack of valid target or lack of cost-paying ability).
>>
>>>The bleed may not be successful (0), but the action is.
>>
>>Really? Thats interesting, I'd always assumed that since the action
>>was bleed, and the bleed was unsuccessful, the action was unsuccessful.
>>
>
> Yeah, it is a little bit confusing, but trust me, it's better this
> way. Otherwise you have weirdness like Freak Drive being unplayable
> on a bleed that resolves for 0 (because inferior can only be used on a
> successful action, and superior can only be used when blocked).
>
> Although... there are some other cards now which cause an action to
> just fail and also disallow Freak Drive completely - it seems a little
> strange, and maybe Freak Drive should be reworded to "As above, but
> playable on an unsuccessful action (play after combat, if any)." But
> as it currently stands, Army of Apparitions (sup), for example, will
> keep the acting minion from Freak Driving.
I think freak drive is good as it is worded now.
It's good to be able to tone down thos multi action freaks with
obediende or army of apparitions. >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2008
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: a couple of rules questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 2, 8:25 am, reyda <true_re....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think freak drive is good as it is worded now.
> It's good to be able to tone down thos multi action freaks with
> obediende or army of apparitions.
>
Well, maybe. But it's still weird, and counter-intuitive, at least at
first. >> Stay informed about: a couple of rules questions |
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