Tyler Dion wrote:
> In article <1112239450.741975.127480.DeleteThis@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Rip Rock" <riprock.DeleteThis@adres.nl> wrote:
>
> > So if you're used to using (e.g.) Life 4 Corr 3 to injure distant
> > people, it won't work on vampires. That kind of sphere-exception
has
> > caused major plot twists for my group, and probably for many
others.
>
> I guess it depends on how bothersome you want vampires to be to your
> players. You faintly touched on the point yourself that it's easy
enough
> to declare that a vampire's blood makes them susceptible to Life
magic.
>
> But if you want vampires to pose a more significant problem, I'm not
> seeing a drawback to the Matter magic ruling. The players are thrown.
> They must overcome this unexpected obstacle. And when they do, they
have
> a piece of information they can rely on.
The problem isn't the game, it's my own lack of organization. My group
will come to a consensus that (e.g.) it requires 4 Prime to whack a
vampire, and then we'll forget about it, because we wrote it down and
buried the paper under a pile of other papers, and then we'll get
distracted by a new supplement, etc.
If I could keep my own house in order, I could get my act together.
For a sample of a Storyteller who is ten thousand times more organized
than I am, see:
http://www.onlyonecomic.com/Mage/Mage.htm
If I could distill all my house rules down to a simple website like
that, I'd be satisfied. It's not going to happen any time soon.
>
> > And maybe some refs would say that to drain blood points out of a
> > vampire you need Matter 3 or more, but you don't need Matter to
give
> > someone Quintessence. I myself can't decide which sounds more
> > plausible.
>
> If you don't need a conjunctional sphere to bestow Quintessence, it
> seems unreasonable to require one to take it, or any equivalent mojo,
> away. Why do only some GMs require one?
>
In part we disagree as to how the game balance should go, and in part
we are all bad at remembering what we agreed on two weeks ago, much
less last month.
> > All the same, if Quintessence makes Patterns work, and if Prime 3
> > allows you to push Quintessence out of any Pattern, Prime 3 ought
to
> > allow you to mess everything up, whether it's a living human, a
> > vampire, or a steel door.
>
> Well, for the record, MageRev's Prime 3 covers "sublimate
Quintessential
> Matter and Forces"; Life Patterns require Prime 4. So if you're using
> the conjunctional sphere requirement, I guess you could try to whack
a
> vampire with Prime 3, Matter 3.
>
Thanks for the info. I'll be interested to see the newest Mage, which
I believe will be out in five months. It will probably change more
than a few things, but the Spheres might stay in place.
>
> My question here is: why are you trying to draw a curve using three
very
> different corebooks?
I have this naive notion that White Wolf products will integrate as
seamlessly as Rolemaster products.
I'm not very motivated by just the Mage books. But when I take Mage
and Wraith and Vampire and Werewolf and Changeling, I get the sense
that there is a story to be told. Unfortunately, when dramatic
inspiration strikes, my usually sloppy organizational skills plunge
into sheer chaos.
I whinge a lot about White Wolf, but their new core rules seem to be
simpler and more elegant than their past rules, so I'm hoping that when
their new Mage comes out I will have no regrets about upgrading across
the board.
> Wouldn't it be simpler to pick the set of rules you
> like best and sand the rough edges, rather than trying to amalgamate
all
> three?
Actually, it would be simplest to 1) write down a story "bible" of
non-negotiable rules; 2) get a core of naive playtesters who don't know
Mage and won't argue with me when I amalgamate, and 3) use the naive
playtesters to establish the campaign before introducing my usual
group.
> > In the campaigns I have run, Mages *could* survive without a Node,
but
> > couldn't do big stuff -- and all my players always wanted Nodes
anyway.
> > But once they had that Node, they found everyone always was trying
to
> > challenge their ownership/occupation. They always had to fight
> > defensive battles to keep their Node, then they had to sortie and
> > destroy public documents and records that could imperil their
secrecy.
>
> I guess I'm confused here. If you don't like these things about
Nodes,
> why did you put them in your game?
>
My usual players pretty much insisted on them, and when they pointed to
the original books, I was convinced the rules were on their side.
My current understanding of Mage Revised is that a mage who meditates
in a Node gains a number of Quintessence points equal to his Avatar
Background. One must have 4 or 5 Prime to do the same trick outside a
Node -- 4 Prime if inspired, 5 Prime under any circumstances. Am I
right?
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