compare Civ4 to Civ3?

Op Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:51:16 -0600 schreef BP:

> I never bought Civ4, as I've been happy enough playing Civ3 Conquests
> and I had heard that Civ4 has higher graphics requirements and also
> requires XP. I was recently told that Civ4 is vastly improved over
> Civ3, but have not yet heard back on my request for further details
> from the person who said this.
>
> I never play Civ3 online, only solo or in multiplayer with my kids on
> our home LAN. I rarely play random maps, preferring the "Conquest"
> scenarios and a couple of custom scenarios that I have made myself. I
> rarely play in the modern age, preferring the Middle Ages or Age of
> Discovery.
>
> Any advice on what attractions Civ4 would have over Civ3 for me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> BP

I'm still playing Civ3 too, but I've tried out a demo of Civ4.
It's basically a different game altogether. Civ4 has so many new features
and aspects, that it's hard to make a comparison. I found Civ4 MUCH more
complicated (so many more buildings and advances and special abilities and
and and), which I didn't like. Also, Civ4 really needs a video card, my
computer has on-board video, which was not sufficient to give the game what
it deserves. So I decided not to take that next step.
--
Jan Willem from Odijk, Netherlands
e-mail in From-field is wrong, real e-mail is:
jw point van point dormolen on xs4all point nl
(change point into dot, on into at)

And then there's this:
In good writing, for good reasons, under normal circumstances, whenever you
can, use prepositional phrases in limited numbers and with great caution.
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 at 15:51:16, BP <reply DeleteThis @newsgroup.please> wrote in
alt.games.civ3 :

>I never bought Civ4, as I've been happy enough playing Civ3 Conquests
>and I had heard that Civ4 has higher graphics requirements and also
>requires XP. I was recently told that Civ4 is vastly improved over
>Civ3, but have not yet heard back on my request for further details
>from the person who said this.
>
>I never play Civ3 online, only solo or in multiplayer with my kids on
>our home LAN. I rarely play random maps, preferring the "Conquest"
>scenarios and a couple of custom scenarios that I have made myself. I
>rarely play in the modern age, preferring the Middle Ages or Age of
>Discovery.
>
>Any advice on what attractions Civ4 would have over Civ3 for me?

I like the concept of unit promotions through battle experience (a
separate concept from upgrading due to discovery of new technologies).

For each fight a unit wins they gain experience points, and when they
reach a certain number of points, they earn a choice of promotions.
These allow you to specialise units for certain tasks - say attacking
cities or certain types of enemy units.
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:51:16 -0600, BP <reply.DeleteThis@newsgroup.please> wrote:

>I never bought Civ4, as I've been happy enough playing Civ3 Conquests
>and I had heard that Civ4 has higher graphics requirements and also
>requires XP. I was recently told that Civ4 is vastly improved over
>Civ3, but have not yet heard back on my request for further details
>from the person who said this.
>
>I never play Civ3 online, only solo or in multiplayer with my kids on
>our home LAN. I rarely play random maps, preferring the "Conquest"
>scenarios and a couple of custom scenarios that I have made myself. I
>rarely play in the modern age, preferring the Middle Ages or Age of
>Discovery.
>
>Any advice on what attractions Civ4 would have over Civ3 for me?

The game play is smoother with less micromanagement. The issue of
super-high corruption making cities worthless is gone, pollution
doesn't affect the map, production overflows into the next item
without loss, and more like that.

The AI is smarter, and I think that the game balance is better
between units. Beyond The Sword expansion does a lot to beef up
peaceful operations, as well as war, and makes diplomacy nicer.

As a scenario player, Civ4 offers advantages because its
scenario/mod creation system is so powerful. More like Civ2's,
scenarios can go far from the normal Civ model into very different
realms. Between the Warlords expansion and BTS, you have a lot of
very fun scenarios to try out.

The higher graphic requirements and XP requirement aren't that bad
-- any new PC won't have a problem running it. The game is functional
on relatively modest graphics (intel GMA900 for example, Nvidia 5200).
More power means more details on screen, but at low detail, single
unit graphics and animations off, it still plays the same way.


--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

"BP" <reply.RemoveThis@newsgroup.please> wrote in message
news:p7dfp35hbr6tcqpp6holhjsjr68cpnt9da@4ax.com...
>I never bought Civ4, as I've been happy enough playing Civ3 Conquests
> and I had heard that Civ4 has higher graphics requirements and also
> requires XP. I was recently told that Civ4 is vastly improved over
> Civ3, but have not yet heard back on my request for further details
> from the person who said this.
>
> I never play Civ3 online, only solo or in multiplayer with my kids on
> our home LAN. I rarely play random maps, preferring the "Conquest"
> scenarios and a couple of custom scenarios that I have made myself. I
> rarely play in the modern age, preferring the Middle Ages or Age of
> Discovery.
>
> Any advice on what attractions Civ4 would have over Civ3 for me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> BP
>

As well as some of the answers already given, civ4 is much more modifiable,
so you get some mods which are pretty much new games.
Ive only played "fall from heaven" so far, and thats a fantasy setting with
mages, spells, armageddon and lots more.

For vanilla civ4 a good way to get an idea about the game would be to read
through some of the succession game threads...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=168
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:21:28 +0100, Afoklala wrote:

>I'm still playing Civ3 too, but I've tried out a demo of Civ4.
>It's basically a different game altogether. Civ4 has so many new features
>and aspects, that it's hard to make a comparison. I found Civ4 MUCH more
>complicated (so many more buildings and advances and special abilities and
>and and), which I didn't like.

Hmm, yeah, I wouldn't be real crazy about a bunch of new stuff like
that, either. I like exploring, choosing strategic sites for cities,
diplomacy, and military strategy. My main problems with Civ3 are
fromthe AI behaving stupidly in the diplomacy and strategy - all it
seems to know how to do is spread cities out like locusts covering the
land. I think I'll start antoher thread specifically about that...

>Also, Civ4 really needs a video card, my
>computer has on-board video, which was not sufficient to give the game what
>it deserves. So I decided not to take that next step.

My current PC has a card, but just whatever came standard in it when
my Dad bought it four or five years ago. Maybe I need to swap the card
from my old PC, which isn't currently being used for much. I don't
recall the name/numbers/specs, but that was a pretty decent gaming
card I put in it only a couple years ago, so should be better than
what I'm using.
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:43:55 GMT, Paul Hyett wrote:

>I like the concept of unit promotions through battle experience (a
>separate concept from upgrading due to discovery of new technologies).
>
>For each fight a unit wins they gain experience points, and when they
>reach a certain number of points, they earn a choice of promotions.
>These allow you to specialise units for certain tasks - say attacking
>cities or certain types of enemy units.


Sounds a little strange to me - so now instead of just having
different types of units such as swordsmen, pikeman, medieval
infantry, or horsemen, there would also be different specializations
within each unit type? OK, i guess I'll have to try that and see how
it goes...
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:42:34 -0600, Jeffery S. Jones wrote:

> The game play is smoother with less micromanagement. The issue of
>super-high corruption making cities worthless is gone, pollution
>doesn't affect the map, production overflows into the next item
>without loss, and more like that.

Those all sound like good things to me!

> The AI is smarter, and I think that the game balance is better
>between units. Beyond The Sword expansion does a lot to beef up
>peaceful operations, as well as war, and makes diplomacy nicer.

Those sound like very good things - I'm starting another thread about
some problems I have with Civ3 AI. Smarter would definitely be good!

> As a scenario player, Civ4 offers advantages because its
>scenario/mod creation system is so powerful. More like Civ2's,
>scenarios can go far from the normal Civ model into very different
>realms. Between the Warlords expansion and BTS, you have a lot of
>very fun scenarios to try out.

Yay! Scenarios + modding = very very good - especially with good AI to
play against. Does the AI require much/any scripting to do special
things in scenarios, or is it able to handle most of what you can
throw in there? (My Viking scenario has a reverse-capture-the-flag
thing where you get treasures from conquest and take them back home to
cash them in for Gold, and the Civ3 AI has no clue how to do this...)

> The higher graphic requirements and XP requirement aren't that bad
>-- any new PC won't have a problem running it. The game is functional
>on relatively modest graphics (intel GMA900 for example, Nvidia 5200).
>More power means more details on screen, but at low detail, single
>unit graphics and animations off, it still plays the same way.

I never can keep track of the different graphics cards - my approach
is that when I or my kids get a game that won't run on the cards we
have now, I'll go out and buy whatever new cards are currently
available for about $100-$125 and that is usually good enough to last
us a few years.

Thanks for all the info, it sounds like I really need to get Civ4 (and
BTS) as soon as I have a machine upgraded enough to run it.
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 01:17:12 +1030, "Vladesch" <nobody.RemoveThis@nospam.com>
wrote:

>As well as some of the answers already given, civ4 is much more modifiable,
>so you get some mods which are pretty much new games.
>Ive only played "fall from heaven" so far, and thats a fantasy setting with
>mages, spells, armageddon and lots more.


Wow, that does sound a lot more moddable than anything in Civ3...

>For vanilla civ4 a good way to get an idea about the game would be to read
>through some of the succession game threads...
>http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=168

Thanks!
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 at 17:53:37, BP <reply.DeleteThis@newsgroup.please> wrote in
alt.games.civ3 :

>On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:43:55 GMT, Paul Hyett wrote:
>
>>I like the concept of unit promotions through battle experience (a
>>separate concept from upgrading due to discovery of new technologies).
>>
>>For each fight a unit wins they gain experience points, and when they
>>reach a certain number of points, they earn a choice of promotions.
>>These allow you to specialise units for certain tasks - say attacking
>>cities or certain types of enemy units.
>
>Sounds a little strange to me - so now instead of just having
>different types of units such as swordsmen, pikeman, medieval
>infantry, or horsemen, there would also be different specializations
>within each unit type?

Yes.

There are non-combat promotions too - e.g. Medic, which allows you to
heal injured units faster.
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 at 17:51:29, BP <reply.DeleteThis@newsgroup.please> wrote in
alt.games.civ3 :
>
>Hmm, yeah, I wouldn't be real crazy about a bunch of new stuff like
>that, either. I like exploring, choosing strategic sites for cities,
>diplomacy, and military strategy. My main problems with Civ3 are
>fromthe AI behaving stupidly in the diplomacy and strategy - all it
>seems to know how to do is spread cities out like locusts covering the
>land.

You certainly can't do that in Civ4 unless you have Bill Gates bank
balance!

BTW, I don't suppose anyone knows which variable/file contains the
maintenance accelerator that makes new cities so expensive in Civ4?
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 at 10:16:59, Wintermute <Wintermute.TakeThisOut@cyberspace.net>
wrote in alt.games.civ3 :
>>
>>BTW, I don't suppose anyone knows which variable/file contains the
>>maintenance accelerator that makes new cities so expensive in Civ4?
>
>I believe the formula is determined in the C++ code, but I'm not sure
>because I don't have the SDK. I did find a function in the python
>code (pyhelpers.py) called getMaintenance associated with the city
>class, but I can't seem to find the implementation of that function,
>which leads me to believe it's done in the C++.
>
>You can modify maintenance costs in the XML based on:
>
>- the world size in ...\XML\GameInfo\CIV4WorldInfo.xml
>
>- the difficulty level in ...\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo.xml
>
>- civics in ...\XML\GameInfo\CIV4CivicInfos.xml
>
>- buildings in ...\XML\Buildings\CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
>
>Just search these files for 'maintenance' and you should see the
>modifiers you can change. Each one is a percentage, so lowering the
>percentage should lower the maintenance costs.
>
>Also, the max maintenance due to distance is set to 25 in
>GlobalDefines.xml
>
Thanks, I'll check those out.
--
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3? 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 18:01:51 -0600, BP <reply.TakeThisOut@newsgroup.please> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:42:34 -0600, Jeffery S. Jones wrote:
>

>> As a scenario player, Civ4 offers advantages because its
>>scenario/mod creation system is so powerful. More like Civ2's,
>>scenarios can go far from the normal Civ model into very different
>>realms. Between the Warlords expansion and BTS, you have a lot of
>>very fun scenarios to try out.
>
>Yay! Scenarios + modding = very very good - especially with good AI to
>play against. Does the AI require much/any scripting to do special
>things in scenarios, or is it able to handle most of what you can
>throw in there? (My Viking scenario has a reverse-capture-the-flag
>thing where you get treasures from conquest and take them back home to
>cash them in for Gold, and the Civ3 AI has no clue how to do this...)

It can do a lot, but may require new AI programming to handle some
situations. Much of that is open, but not easy to manipulate.

>> The higher graphic requirements and XP requirement aren't that bad
>>-- any new PC won't have a problem running it. The game is functional
>>on relatively modest graphics (intel GMA900 for example, Nvidia 5200).
>>More power means more details on screen, but at low detail, single
>>unit graphics and animations off, it still plays the same way.
>
>I never can keep track of the different graphics cards - my approach
>is that when I or my kids get a game that won't run on the cards we
>have now, I'll go out and buy whatever new cards are currently
>available for about $100-$125 and that is usually good enough to last
>us a few years.

That should be sufficient. I had no trouble running Civ4 smoothly
on my new laptop w/builtin intel graphics. It is playable on machines
3-5 years old. While older systems might need a graphics card
upgrade, you wouldn't need top of the line to run it well.

It does like memory though. 1 gig is good for bigger maps.

>Thanks for all the info, it sounds like I really need to get Civ4 (and
>BTS) as soon as I have a machine upgraded enough to run it.
>
>

--
*-__Jeffery Jones__________| *Starfire* |____________________-*
** Muskego WI Access Channel 14/25 <http://www.execpc.com/~jeffsj/mach7/>
*Starfire Design Studio* <http://www.starfiredesign.com/>
 >> Stay informed about: compare Civ4 to Civ3?