colorclash refund

"Lodewijk van Haringhal" <niemand.RemoveThis@nergens.oo> wrote in message
news:448ef9b5$0$31649$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> Sorry I do not like the style you are writing and shouting...

I'm not shouting, but I am trying to make a point.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

On a side note, whilst you feel I'm destroying the homebrew scene, I do seem
to be supporting these games. Yet I don't see your name on the colorclash
owners list.

> again it is only a trashed box, that is all...even as a collector you have
> to see the relativity of this trashed box...

Chris has put the argument about this much better than I can.

> For me you sound like a cold collector, money-grubber... wich I
> hate...there
> are enough of your kind on Ebay.

Whatever my motives are, they are nothing to do with you or with my
arguments. As a collector I want what I paid for, as an eBay seller I'd want
the same. You have never seen me sell a single Vectrex item on eBay, and I
have, in the past, turned down an offer of $250 for my copy of Protector.
I'm not buying Vectrex stuff to sell it, I'm buying it because I love the
Vectrex and I love the homebrew scene we have here.

If I bought a Dodzilla game at $24 delivered or a game from Vectrexcarts at
$20 delivered and it came with a broken box I'd say that is a shame and live
with it. It is a low cost replaceable item. Yes, I feel crazy arguing about
a box, but I paid $77 for a limited edition that hyped that box. There were
discussions encouraging people to pick, then comment on the design, there
were posts saying what good quality it was and there were posts justifying
the cost in part because of the box.

Now back to watching Brazil play football...

Marc
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

Chris Romero wrote:
> Chris <--Ignorant for expecting Lodewijk van Haringhal to have an neuron
> lurking somewhere under the 5 degree forehead waiting to be awakened.

You don't have to be rude about it. You are sounding silly and like a
little kid.
I am with Lodewijk all the way. Comparing it to receving a damaged car
is also ridiculous in my opinion. I know for a fact Martijn made no
money on Debris and he goes out of his way, with Color Calsh, to give
the community a great looking item and he just gets repayed with scorn.
I just don't get some of you, you just seem to want to complain for the
love of it.

Cheers,

Nubian.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

"Chris Romero" <nospamto-cromero-please RemoveThis @romero.org> schreef in bericht
news:XeEjg.96144$H71.88203@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

> > again it is only a trashed box, that is all...even as a collector you
have

> > to see the relativity of this trashed box...

> > For me you sound like a cold collector, money-grubber... wich I

> > hate...there

> > are enough of your kind on Ebay.

> >

>

> There is no relatively for a trashed collectable box. The product was

> delivered damaged. That is just the way it is.



who are you god? of course there is relativity for receiving a trashed
collectable box...



> Think of this in another way.

> You order a new car. This car is second car you do not need for any

> critical function in your life. The auto dealer states the car will be

> delivered to your door. When the car arrives you find the body is dented.

> However, the car is still completely operational and safe. You then
complain

> to the auto dealer and the response you receive is "Sorry, but I didn't

> deliver the car or prepare it for shipment to your door". After a while
the

> dealer then says "I cannot give you another car, but I can refund you 10.2

> percent of the original sales price".



This paralel is totaly stupid..

the body is a crusial part of the car, no when you want to make valid
paralel you need to say that the packaging material of the car was trashed
by a third party.



> Do you think the average person would keep the new car purely for the

> pleasure of driving around and showing the world what a fine choice they
had

> to accept? (dripping with sarcasm)



Well some people do and some don't. Totaly irrelefant...



> Do you think their neighbor would be calling them a "money-grubber" for

> asking for more compensation than simple cash of a purchase that was not

> completed as originally presented to the buyer?



I think so when the packaging matrial was trashed...



> The matter is simple. Trying to distort the fact the product was not

> delivered as originally described is the responsibility of the producer.

> The only way the producer could have any avoidance of responsibility is by

> contracting protection against packaging and delivery damage. To my

> knowledge non was procured for the Color Clash delivery.



hahaha get a life...



> To Martijn's great credit he has accepted FULL responsibility for the
Color

> Clash delivery issues. But resolution for the packaging and delivery

> problems will not be the same for every case. Lodewijk van Haringhal
needs

> to recognize this fact.



Why?



He also needs to recognize that each gamers' desire

> for a title is not based on the same motivation.



I need nothing... but off course this is a valid point, human beings have
the ability to differentiate.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

Lodewijk van Haringhal wrote:
> "cNp" <cparsonsukspam.DeleteThis@aol.com> schreef in bericht

> > Note I haven't asked for a refund, I haven't taken Martijn up on his
> offer,
> > I haven't returned the game for my money back, and I don't plan to; But we
> > are all allowed to give constructive praise AND criticism.
> >
>
> you are right, but you are killing homebrew development with your collecting
> fetish, I always like to compromise and even as a collector you have to see
> the relativity of this trashed box...

How in the heck are collectors killing the homebrew scene WHEN WE ARE
THE CONSUMERS? (you know, the ones who fork over the money?) If we
didn't exist, homebrewers would have a lot of unsold product sitting
around. An IRC colleague of mine was a pioneering homebrew developer
and it took more than TWO YEARS to sell through 100 copies of his game.

However, it takes two to Tango. Developers need to promote their
product and limited editions certainly attract attention. A limited
game sells out and gives positive reinforcement to develoeprs that this
is what will sell and gives an indication of what collectors/consumers
want. Collectors in turn buy more limited editions, and devlopers keep
pumping out what they percieve is desired. It starts to border on a
pusher-junkie type of relationship.

The problem is that this cycle can go awry when the gimmicks ** begin
to take precedence over the actual content. I've seen this sort of
thing escalate in other collecting genres and the end results are not
pretty. You end up attracting a speculator element who only want to
make money and cares nothing for the games or even the hard work or
love that went into making them.

So who is ultimately to blame for hurting the homebrew scene? Both
collectors and develoeprs if they aren't careful. In such a small and
relatively tight-knit community where Vectrex developers and
enthusiasts can both mingle and mash out their differences it doesn't
take much to upset this balance. Take a look at the Atari 2600
homebrew scene where the developers have their own separate community
and tell me which you prefer.

I'm sure more than a few potential developers were encouraged to take
the plunge and try their hand when Protector and Cube Quest sold out a
few years ago. We also may end up losing a few developers and
discouraging potential ones with this latest clash (no pun intended).


In the end I hope the developers learn that good PR is golden: You are
selling to a VERY limited number of people.in a very narrow
demographic. Burn your customers once and you probably won't get a
second chance. Sometimes you have to eat those costs to keep people
happy. It's an unfortunate downside of small hobby-businesses.

Collectors on the other hand need to realise just how much of a
developers soul and free time goes into making a homebrew. I don't
know if there's adequite monetary compensation for that. In such cases
It's hard not to take any criticism (even constructive) personally.
While you might be 'right' in getting compensation it doesn't give you
a liscence to be rude or disrespectful.

** I'm using the term 'gimmick' in it's broadest possible sense --
anything from a fancy box to a one-off edition personally signed by the
author's cat would would be included here.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

Chris <--Ignorant for expecting Lodewijk van Haringhal to have an neuron
lurking somewhere under the 5 degree forehead waiting to be awakened.

I did enjoy expounding the topic. So all was not lost. And Shawn I am with
you. A few more Euro for shipping is for me a low cost to get a nice box.
If only the box comes inside an Adamantium shell.

Enjoy the day fellow gamers. I know I have.

--

Sincerely,

Chris
cromero at romero dot org
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

cNp wrote:

> Then we can have riveting discussions on the best glue to use to avoid Cube
> Quest box style falling apart ;¬D
>
> Actually!! Has anyone glued theirs back together? I've never got round to
> it for fear of using some glue that unexpectedly melts through the card.


My copy of Cube Quest has a fully intact box... so maybe it had to do
with where yours was stored?
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

The % of LE releases is getting to me too. How many titles recently
have been released with multiple versions of varying amounts for little
tangible reason? Now if someone wants to be a completist, which I have
been but am souring on that quickly now, they have to immediately
purchase multiple editions of the same game. Then, on top of that, the
delivery wait is weeks or months. I don't mind preorders, and I don't
mind waits, and LE versions haven't bothered me until now... but if you
combine all of those elements it is asking too much faith of the
consumers. Especially when one of the most affected releases is also
the highest priced release to date. There is a breaking point
somewhere amongst the variables of price, lead time, quality of
product, and end delivery of product. Color Clash may well have
crossed that breaking point.

I am as much completist as anyone but at this point I don't want any
more "special edition" $25 cardboard boxes. I've bought them all until
now. Future releases like this, that don't come with an option to skip
the expensive packaging, may well not be bought by me.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

Nubian wrote:

> I know for a fact Martijn made no
> money on Debris and he goes out of his way, with Color Calsh, to give
> the community a great looking item and he just gets repayed with scorn.


There is a balance here that doesn't meet your statement. He went out
of his way and produced a great looking box. This is true. He also
charged heavily for it, he didn't give away a thing. And he didn't
deliver a great looking box. Sadly, via the bad packaging, what was
delivered was a crushed up, formerly great looking box.

As usual with a Net debate, the truth is definitely somewhere in
between the primary viewpoints.

It appears that the consumer's message here is that while the software
is greatly appreciated, the elaborate expensive packaging is not going
over as well. Not just with Color Clash but in general. I would
suggest that if producers want to continue to produce such packaging
that they present the market with two options: one with packaging, one
without, each priced accordingly.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

cNp wrote:

> Could be but it happened almost immediately... I guess there's very varying
> quantities of glue on the boxes as it's all done by hand. From memory it's
> not all unstuck... not one that comes out to play really as ther's no game
> in there!

I'm not the original buyer on mine, so it is very possible that someone
else reglued mine. Looks good, though.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

I'm more of a lurker here but I do have some experience producing and
selling to the collecting community.

Use of limited editions has a few benefits and pitfalls; from the
seller's point of view if a product is released without any limitation,
then sales trickle in over weeks and months and any recovery of the
initial production investment much less any profit isn't realized until
months later. There is a trade off between doing a large run while
realizing bulk discounts, and holding more product until it eventually
sells out with a higher margin; or doing several small runs with higher
cost but holding less inventory until it sells out (with a smaller
margin).

It's human nature to rush to buy limited editions and wait to buy what
you know will be available months in the future. I'd wager if there
was good information that only 5 of a particular cart were left for
sale and no more would be produced, they'd be gone at the end of the
day; but if no mention was made that 5 of the same cart were left in
inventory they would continue to sell at their slow pace until sold
out.

For the record I've never sold any limited editions, but I'd love to
give that business model a spin sometime

Mike Doyle


Chad Tower wrote:
> The % of LE releases is getting to me too. How many titles recently
> have been released with multiple versions of varying amounts for little
> tangible reason? Now if someone wants to be a completist, which I have
> been but am souring on that quickly now, they have to immediately
> purchase multiple editions of the same game. Then, on top of that, the
> delivery wait is weeks or months. I don't mind preorders, and I don't
> mind waits, and LE versions haven't bothered me until now... but if you
> combine all of those elements it is asking too much faith of the
> consumers. Especially when one of the most affected releases is also
> the highest priced release to date. There is a breaking point
> somewhere amongst the variables of price, lead time, quality of
> product, and end delivery of product. Color Clash may well have
> crossed that breaking point.
>
> I am as much completist as anyone but at this point I don't want any
> more "special edition" $25 cardboard boxes. I've bought them all until
> now. Future releases like this, that don't come with an option to skip
> the expensive packaging, may well not be bought by me.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

Richard Hutchinson wrote:
> Lodewijk, are you the guy who shipped the boxes by any chance ?


Heh, he *is* the guy who just posted in another thread that he hasn't
actually bought Color Clash. That undermines his point of view pretty
hard.
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

"Lodewijk van Haringhal" <niemand.RemoveThis@nergens.oo> wrote in message
news:448ef7d6$0$31651
> you are right, but you are killing homebrew development with your
collecting
> fetish, I always like to compromise and even as a collector you have to
see
> the relativity of this trashed box...Look there is another post on this
> subject, the game is no called color mash.... again you and the other
> negative persons are killing homebrew development[my opinion]...

I do hope not, I hope some healthy discussion can help people in future
decisions; Be that to say "sod it, I'll use plastic cases like John D",
offer differing distribution models, or just to stay the same and package up
more carefully.

Vectorzoa has said it's pain in the 4rse making the boxes up which I bet it
is... I'd be happy to receive a flat pack box and do all the cutting and
glueing myself... that's an extra distribution model again... I'd much
rather do that than the games stop being available with a box.

Then we can have riveting discussions on the best glue to use to avoid Cube
Quest box style falling apart ;¬D

Actually!! Has anyone glued theirs back together? I've never got round to
it for fear of using some glue that unexpectedly melts through the card.

cNp
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund 

"Chris Romero" <nospamto-cromero-please RemoveThis @romero.org> schreef in bericht
news:arJjg.45902$4L1.3839@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Chris <--Ignorant for expecting Lodewijk van Haringhal to have an neuron
> lurking somewhere under the 5 degree forehead waiting to be awakened.

This reation says more about you than it contributes to the topic...

> I did enjoy expounding the topic. So all was not lost. And Shawn I am
with
> you. A few more Euro for shipping is for me a low cost to get a nice
box.
> If only the box comes inside an Adamantium shell.

another stupid reaction.

> Enjoy the day fellow gamers. I know I have.

It a shame you only make childish jokes insteat of react to my arguments...
 >> Stay informed about: colorclash refund