As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3?

Shiflet wrote:
>
> I know a LOT of HGL players, and most of them say the game is REALLY bug and
> still has a LOT of kinks to be worked out. Many of the people I know find it
> unplayable at it's current state, and came back to D2 until HGL gets fixed.
>

I'm playing HGL in single-player which I'm enjoying Have encountered
a bug with one quest but it's not a critical one.

--
EvilBill's Dominion - Diablo stories, Quake videos and more!
http://www.devlinwright.co.uk
Now with Forums: http://www.devlinwright.co.uk/forum/
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

"EvilBill" <quake2lives.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:602a5oF1oqs8uU1@mid.individual.net...
> Shiflet wrote:
>>
>> I know a LOT of HGL players, and most of them say the game is REALLY bug and
>> still has a LOT of kinks to be worked out. Many of the people I know find it
>> unplayable at it's current state, and came back to D2 until HGL gets fixed.
>>
>
> I'm playing HGL in single-player which I'm enjoying Have encountered a bug
> with one quest but it's not a critical one.
>
> --


I switched to HGL when it came out and haven't looked back, except for
occasional D2 forum lurking. From the perspective of someone who loved the D2
item/build/skill model, as well as the FPS coop modes of UT, it works well. The
skill tree power and quality of items are flattened a bit as compared to D2, so
I have yet to have the feeling of ripping through the later stages of the game
like you could in D2. Also, it doesn't really have the perhaps overpowered
uniques to search for as almost all uniques can be surpassed by a decent rare
(to which you can gamble additional stats). Group play is a hoot and it has a
nice graphic system that allows you to scroll in or out between first person and
3rd person views. Also, loot is individualized, so everyone sees their own
stuff to pick up. No messing around with who gets what.

On the negative side, it is clearly a early build but it is not nearly as buggy
as you would expect from the reviews. Monster and level types are more limited
than D2 but they are slowly but surely adding areas. Paying to get to these
areas is a pain but may be worthwhile if content is continually added. The
inventory space is woefully inadequate. Also, the potential for specialization
is much less than in D2, with only 6 character types each with only 1-2 viable
build types. Lastly, while it is fun, it does not yet quite have the
charm/addiction factor that D2 had, especially when playing SP.

Don't be dissuaded by the reviews though. It is a nice modern version of D2
that is being improved faster than D2 ever was.

-Steve
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Steve W" typed:
> "EvilBill" <quake2lives.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:602a5oF1oqs8uU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Shiflet wrote:
>>>
>>> I know a LOT of HGL players, and most of them say the game is
>>> REALLY bug and still has a LOT of kinks to be worked out. Many of
>>> the people I know find it unplayable at it's current state, and
>>> came back to D2 until HGL gets fixed.
>>
>> I'm playing HGL in single-player which I'm enjoying Have
>> encountered a bug with one quest but it's not a critical one.
>>
>> --
>
>
> I switched to HGL when it came out and haven't looked back, except for
> occasional D2 forum lurking. From the perspective of someone who
> loved the D2 item/build/skill model, as well as the FPS coop modes of
> UT, it works well. The skill tree power and quality of items are
> flattened a bit as compared to D2, so I have yet to have the feeling
> of ripping through the later stages of the game like you could in D2.
> Also, it doesn't really have the perhaps overpowered uniques to
> search for as almost all uniques can be surpassed by a decent rare
> (to which you can gamble additional stats). Group play is a hoot and
> it has a nice graphic system that allows you to scroll in or out
> between first person and 3rd person views. Also, loot is
> individualized, so everyone sees their own stuff to pick up. No
> messing around with who gets what.
> On the negative side, it is clearly a early build but it is not
> nearly as buggy as you would expect from the reviews. Monster and
> level types are more limited than D2 but they are slowly but surely
> adding areas. Paying to get to these areas is a pain but may be
> worthwhile if content is continually added. The inventory space is
> woefully inadequate. Also, the potential for specialization is much
> less than in D2, with only 6 character types each with only 1-2
> viable build types. Lastly, while it is fun, it does not yet quite
> have the charm/addiction factor that D2 had, especially when playing
> SP.
> Don't be dissuaded by the reviews though. It is a nice modern
> version of D2 that is being improved faster than D2 ever was.

Thanks for the hands-on report Steve. Always good to hear from people who
are actually playing it.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:20:42 -0500, Steve W writ:

[review of Hellgate London]
> Don't be dissuaded by the reviews though. It is a nice modern version
> of D2 that is being improved faster than D2 ever was.

Does the game throw ads at you in-game?

<quote EULA>
16. Massive Technology. The Software incorporates technology of Massive
Incorporated ("Massive") that enables in-game advertising, and the display
of other similar in-game objects, which are uploaded temporarily to your
personal computer or game console and replaced during online game play.
As part of this process, Massive may collect your Internet protocol
address and other basic anonymous information, and will use this
information for the general purposes of transmitting and measuring in-game
advertising. Massive does not store or use any of this information for
the purpose of discovering your personal identity. For additional details
regarding Massive's in-game advertising practices, and to understand your
options with respect to in-game advertising and data collection, please
see Massive's privacy policy at
<http://www.massiveincorporated.com/site_network/privacy.htm>. The
trademarks and copyrighted material contained in all in-game advertising
are the property of the respective owners. Portions of this product are
©2007 Massive Incorporated. All rights reserved.
</quote>

I don't like the sound of some of that. That's from a demo version that I
just downloaded. Perhaps that's only for the demo.

--
"Because all you of Earth are idiots!"
¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

"freemont" <freemont.DeleteThis@spammenotfreemontsoffice.com> wrote in message
news:2399c$47a0ce61$471e2911$31296@ALLTEL.NET...
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:20:42 -0500, Steve W writ:
>
> [review of Hellgate London]
>> Don't be dissuaded by the reviews though. It is a nice modern version
>> of D2 that is being improved faster than D2 ever was.
>
> Does the game throw ads at you in-game?
>
> <quote EULA>
> 16. Massive Technology. The Software incorporates technology of Massive
> Incorporated ("Massive") that enables in-game advertising, and the display
> of other similar in-game objects, which are uploaded temporarily to your
> personal computer or game console and replaced during online game play.
> As part of this process, Massive may collect your Internet protocol
> address and other basic anonymous information, and will use this
> information for the general purposes of transmitting and measuring in-game
> advertising. Massive does not store or use any of this information for
> the purpose of discovering your personal identity. For additional details
> regarding Massive's in-game advertising practices, and to understand your
> options with respect to in-game advertising and data collection, please
> see Massive's privacy policy at
> <http://www.massiveincorporated.com/site_network/privacy.htm>. The
> trademarks and copyrighted material contained in all in-game advertising
> are the property of the respective owners. Portions of this product are
> ©2007 Massive Incorporated. All rights reserved.
> </quote>
>
> I don't like the sound of some of that. That's from a demo version that I
> just downloaded. Perhaps that's only for the demo.
>
> --
> "Because all you of Earth are idiots!"
> ¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯


Nothing intrusive at all. Stations have a few posters on the wall, much like
movie posters. Actually kind of cool, really.

-Steve
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz.DeleteThis@yahoot.com.au> wrote in message
news:479bc07c@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
> Hellgate London:
>
> "Before you consider delving into Hellgate: London, it's important to know
> what the game is and what it is not. It isn't Oblivion, Fallout or World
> of Warcraft. At a fundamental level it is Diablo II. This shouldn't
> surprise anyone since Flagship Studios was founded by Bill Roper, David
> Brevik, Max Schaefer and Erich Schaefer who were all executives at
> Blizzard North and instrumental in the development of Diablo and Diablo II
> before they broke off to start their own company. You can hardly fault
> these guys for taking inspiration from one of the most popular PC games of
> all time especially when they created it, but a lot has happened since
> Diablo II was released in 2000. We've come to expect more from RPGs, even
> action-oriented ones."
>
> Full review here:
>
> http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/01/16/hellgate_london_review/
>
> They don't make it sound that great. However, it *is* version 1.0 and I
> have come to realise reading Toms over the years that they are quire
> biased towards the companies who advertise with them.
>
> Just FYI.

Tried it, hated it. Then again, that may just be a personal thing, I have
never liked games with the up and down feature.

Mickey
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

"~misfit~" <misfit61nz.DeleteThis@yahoot.com.au> wrote in message
news:479fd323$1@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
> Somewhere on teh intarweb "Steve W" typed:
>> "EvilBill" <quake2lives.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:602a5oF1oqs8uU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Shiflet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I know a LOT of HGL players, and most of them say the game is
>>>> REALLY bug and still has a LOT of kinks to be worked out. Many of
>>>> the people I know find it unplayable at it's current state, and
>>>> came back to D2 until HGL gets fixed.
>>>
>>> I'm playing HGL in single-player which I'm enjoying Have
>>> encountered a bug with one quest but it's not a critical one.
>>>
>>> --
>>
>>
>> I switched to HGL when it came out and haven't looked back, except for
>> occasional D2 forum lurking. From the perspective of someone who
>> loved the D2 item/build/skill model, as well as the FPS coop modes of
>> UT, it works well. The skill tree power and quality of items are
>> flattened a bit as compared to D2, so I have yet to have the feeling
>> of ripping through the later stages of the game like you could in D2.
>> Also, it doesn't really have the perhaps overpowered uniques to
>> search for as almost all uniques can be surpassed by a decent rare
>> (to which you can gamble additional stats). Group play is a hoot and
>> it has a nice graphic system that allows you to scroll in or out
>> between first person and 3rd person views. Also, loot is
>> individualized, so everyone sees their own stuff to pick up. No
>> messing around with who gets what.
>> On the negative side, it is clearly a early build but it is not
>> nearly as buggy as you would expect from the reviews. Monster and
>> level types are more limited than D2 but they are slowly but surely
>> adding areas. Paying to get to these areas is a pain but may be
>> worthwhile if content is continually added. The inventory space is
>> woefully inadequate. Also, the potential for specialization is much
>> less than in D2, with only 6 character types each with only 1-2
>> viable build types. Lastly, while it is fun, it does not yet quite
>> have the charm/addiction factor that D2 had, especially when playing
>> SP.
>> Don't be dissuaded by the reviews though. It is a nice modern
>> version of D2 that is being improved faster than D2 ever was.
>
> Thanks for the hands-on report Steve. Always good to hear from people who
> are actually playing it.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Shaun.
>
>
>
>

I got hellgate when it came out and (foolishly) bought the founders pack, so
I have access to all the "extra" content.
This is what I think of hellgate (condensed into several points)...
*Badly designed skill system. Most skills dont level up to give you more
damage. instead you might get .5 second less cooldown on a 20 second spell,
or +5% range per extra point. You never get "strong" like in D2 when you
(say) max freezing orb and can lay waste to screenfulls of enemies at the
end of nightmare. Its largely killing mob at a time (while running away)
*Poorly designed item/stat system. Instead of just having 2 stats
(strength/dex) like in d2 where you have minimum requirements, HG uses a
"feed" system, where each item uses up your stats. For example if you have
strength 50, and one item needs strength 30, you cant then equip another
strength 30 item unless you manage to get another 10 points of strength.
Added to this annoyance, HG used 4 stats for feed, and is pretty tough on
requirements. Many characters have all their stats used up, so that even if
you find better equipment, you dont have the stat feed to use it.
*No way to transfer items between toons. Well not strictly speaking true...
you can do it if you have someone you can trust, but you cant drop it on the
ground and come back with another char and pick it up. Stuff that you drop
can only be picked up (or seen for that matter) by you. Also, theres no
shared stash or mail, so self muling is completely impossible.
*Nightmare is broken. Maximum mob level ends at about 62 (I think) wheras
max character level is 50, so its close to imposible to finish nightmare.
*Level grinding. Xp is very poor so you have to grind levels over and over,
and theres no "reset instance" button, though you can accomplish it by
starting a party and then leaving. Whats more if you fight harder monsters
more than 3 levels avove you, you get *less* xp per mob.
*No boss grinding. There are a couple of bosses that are always there, but
in general bosses only spawn when you first have the quest for them.
*Broken subscription system. Curently it costs 10$ per month to subscribe,
and for that you get a couple of extra areas and a boss to farm (but it
requires hours of grinding to unlock the instance), as well as hardcore mode
and acess to a few uniques. Compared with what you get for 15$ with WOW, or
other online games, 10$ is rediculous.
*Brain dead developer. It just seems that FSS have maybe 1 or 2 programmers
actually working on HG. A lot more effort seems to be put into Mthos, which
is their free project, although they are usingg subs and founders money to
do it with. The "extra content" that was promised is quite frankly pathetic
for the 3 months they hav had to develop it, on top of which basic game
elements like being able to mule still remain missing. Dont even think about
an auction house.

Bottom line, save your money, or if money isnt an issue, just buy the basic
game and dont bother subscribing. Ive played free games that leave HG for
dead (Perfect World, or a free lineage shard. Heck even D2 is better)
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:03:54 +1030, "Vladesch" <nobody RemoveThis @nospam.com>
wrote:

>Bottom line, save your money, or if money isnt an issue, just buy the basic
>game and dont bother subscribing. Ive played free games that leave HG for
>dead (Perfect World, or a free lineage shard. Heck even D2 is better)

Thanks for the review. Sounds like my impressions of the game based
on reviews and even ads have been pretty accurate.

Why is it that game developers can't seem to get even the _simplest_
things right?

-- Roy L
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:36:49 GMT, royls.RemoveThis@telus.net wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:03:54 +1030, "Vladesch" <nobody.RemoveThis@nospam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Bottom line, save your money, or if money isnt an issue, just buy the basic
>>game and dont bother subscribing. Ive played free games that leave HG for
>>dead (Perfect World, or a free lineage shard. Heck even D2 is better)
>
>Thanks for the review. Sounds like my impressions of the game based
>on reviews and even ads have been pretty accurate.
>
>Why is it that game developers can't seem to get even the _simplest_
>things right?
>
>-- Roy L

It's all about graphics nowadays.
First they finish the graphic as much as necessary to impress the
investors and game reviewers.
In the left over week until scheduled release they do
the game play mechanics,userinterface,some very basic content.
If the buyers are lucky they get a patch some months later which
brings the game in a halfway playable state.

Since the entertainment industry took over the computer gaming
business it has going only downhill,I cant think of a single game
in the last decade which had a "vision" or some revolutionary never
thought of before basic idea like Sid Meier or Richard Garriot games
or Sim City.
Its all endless repetitions of Doom and Dune(Command&Conquuer
predecessor in case you dont know ).
Consequently I bought and played very few games the last 10 years,D2
(of course),UO,EQ,Morrowind,HoMM series,NWN come to my mind,
but thats it.
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

Ulandx RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Since the entertainment industry took over the computer gaming
> business it has going only downhill,I cant think of a single game
> in the last decade which had a "vision"

Quake II.
Greatest. Game. Ever.

Mind you, I suppose technically it doesn't count as 'in the last decade'
since it was released December 10th 1997.


--
EvilBill's Dominion - Diablo stories, Quake videos and more!
http://www.devlinwright.co.uk
Now with Forums: http://www.devlinwright.co.uk/forum/
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Vladesch" typed:
> "~misfit~" <misfit61nz.DeleteThis@yahoot.com.au> wrote in message
> news:479fd323$1@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
>> Somewhere on teh intarweb "Steve W" typed:
>>> "EvilBill" <quake2lives.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:602a5oF1oqs8uU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Shiflet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I know a LOT of HGL players, and most of them say the game is
>>>>> REALLY bug and still has a LOT of kinks to be worked out. Many of
>>>>> the people I know find it unplayable at it's current state, and
>>>>> came back to D2 until HGL gets fixed.
>>>>
>>>> I'm playing HGL in single-player which I'm enjoying Have
>>>> encountered a bug with one quest but it's not a critical one.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> I switched to HGL when it came out and haven't looked back, except
>>> for occasional D2 forum lurking. From the perspective of someone
>>> who loved the D2 item/build/skill model, as well as the FPS coop
>>> modes of UT, it works well. The skill tree power and quality of
>>> items are flattened a bit as compared to D2, so I have yet to have
>>> the feeling of ripping through the later stages of the game like
>>> you could in D2. Also, it doesn't really have the perhaps
>>> overpowered uniques to search for as almost all uniques can be
>>> surpassed by a decent rare (to which you can gamble additional
>>> stats). Group play is a hoot and it has a nice graphic system that
>>> allows you to scroll in or out between first person and 3rd person
>>> views. Also, loot is individualized, so everyone sees their own
>>> stuff to pick up. No messing around with who gets what.
>>> On the negative side, it is clearly a early build but it is not
>>> nearly as buggy as you would expect from the reviews. Monster and
>>> level types are more limited than D2 but they are slowly but surely
>>> adding areas. Paying to get to these areas is a pain but may be
>>> worthwhile if content is continually added. The inventory space is
>>> woefully inadequate. Also, the potential for specialization is much
>>> less than in D2, with only 6 character types each with only 1-2
>>> viable build types. Lastly, while it is fun, it does not yet quite
>>> have the charm/addiction factor that D2 had, especially when playing
>>> SP.
>>> Don't be dissuaded by the reviews though. It is a nice modern
>>> version of D2 that is being improved faster than D2 ever was.
>>
>> Thanks for the hands-on report Steve. Always good to hear from
>> people who are actually playing it.
>
> I got hellgate when it came out and (foolishly) bought the founders
> pack, so I have access to all the "extra" content.
> This is what I think of hellgate (condensed into several points)...
> *Badly designed skill system. Most skills dont level up to give you
> more damage. instead you might get .5 second less cooldown on a 20
> second spell, or +5% range per extra point. You never get "strong"
> like in D2 when you (say) max freezing orb and can lay waste to
> screenfulls of enemies at the end of nightmare. Its largely killing mob at
> a time (while running away) *Poorly designed item/stat system.
> Instead of just having 2 stats (strength/dex) like in d2 where you
> have minimum requirements, HG uses a "feed" system, where each item
> uses up your stats. For example if you have strength 50, and one item
> needs strength 30, you cant then equip another strength 30 item
> unless you manage to get another 10 points of strength. Added to this
> annoyance, HG used 4 stats for feed, and is pretty tough on
> requirements. Many characters have all their stats used up, so that
> even if you find better equipment, you dont have the stat feed to use
> it. *No way to transfer items between toons. Well not strictly
> speaking true... you can do it if you have someone you can trust, but
> you cant drop it on the ground and come back with another char and
> pick it up. Stuff that you drop can only be picked up (or seen for
> that matter) by you. Also, theres no shared stash or mail, so self
> muling is completely impossible. *Nightmare is broken. Maximum mob
> level ends at about 62 (I think) wheras max character level is 50, so
> its close to imposible to finish nightmare. *Level grinding. Xp is
> very poor so you have to grind levels over and over, and theres no
> "reset instance" button, though you can accomplish it by starting a
> party and then leaving. Whats more if you fight harder monsters more
> than 3 levels avove you, you get *less* xp per mob. *No boss
> grinding. There are a couple of bosses that are always there, but in
> general bosses only spawn when you first have the quest for them.
> *Broken subscription system. Curently it costs 10$ per month to
> subscribe, and for that you get a couple of extra areas and a boss to
> farm (but it requires hours of grinding to unlock the instance), as
> well as hardcore mode and acess to a few uniques. Compared with what
> you get for 15$ with WOW, or other online games, 10$ is rediculous.
> *Brain dead developer. It just seems that FSS have maybe 1 or 2
> programmers actually working on HG. A lot more effort seems to be put
> into Mthos, which is their free project, although they are usingg
> subs and founders money to do it with. The "extra content" that was
> promised is quite frankly pathetic for the 3 months they hav had to
> develop it, on top of which basic game elements like being able to
> mule still remain missing. Dont even think about an auction house.
> Bottom line, save your money, or if money isnt an issue, just buy the
> basic game and dont bother subscribing. Ive played free games that
> leave HG for dead (Perfect World, or a free lineage shard. Heck even
> D2 is better)

I'll second what Roy said, excellent review, thanks heaps for that. I think
I'll be leaving it alone. People mock me for still playing LoD but, not
being a FPS fan, I haven't seen anything else that *looks* like it'd be a
better game.

Thanks again.
--
Shaun.
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

<Ulandx DeleteThis @hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:akp1q3d5a69fo7pcs3uon3ujkddal332bj@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:36:49 GMT, royls DeleteThis @telus.net wrote:
>
(snip)
>
> Since the entertainment industry took over the computer gaming
> business it has going only downhill,I cant think of a single game
> in the last decade which had a "vision" or some revolutionary never
> thought of before basic idea like Sid Meier or Richard Garriot games
> or Sim City.
> Its all endless repetitions of Doom and Dune(Command&Conquuer
> predecessor in case you dont know ).
> Consequently I bought and played very few games the last 10 years,D2
> (of course),UO,EQ,Morrowind,HoMM series,NWN come to my mind,
> but thats it.
>

So many games have been made which make it very difficult to come up
with anything that hasn't been done before.

But that doesn't have to be a problem.

Try playing FlatOut2 with a bunch of friends/colleges/whatever..
it's nothing new really, but it is soooooo much fun!
(personal opinion ofcourse)

regards,
Marcel
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3? 

<royls.RemoveThis@telus.net> wrote in message news:47a08b48.1636105@news.telus.net...
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:03:54 +1030, "Vladesch" <nobody.RemoveThis@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Bottom line, save your money, or if money isnt an issue, just buy the
>>basic
>>game and dont bother subscribing. Ive played free games that leave HG for
>>dead (Perfect World, or a free lineage shard. Heck even D2 is better)
>
> Thanks for the review. Sounds like my impressions of the game based
> on reviews and even ads have been pretty accurate.
>
> Why is it that game developers can't seem to get even the _simplest_
> things right?
>

Most of hellgates problems are where FSS tried to deviate from D2.
If they had just stuck to the D2 formula with improved 3d graphics, HG may
well have been a good game.

Interestingly, the Mythos game that they are co-developing is planned to be
a free game, and they have stuck to the diablo formula a lot closer, and its
more fun that hellgate. I am baffled that FSS cant see whats wrong with
Hellgate and make some fundamental changes to the game rules. Its like they
are too proud to admit their new ideas didnt work.
 >> Stay informed about: As close as we're going to get to Diablo 3?