Ok... another question for clerics...

That's what I did... I stopped healing for a bit in frustration.... lol...
it didn't take long to see that Mr. Helpful Druid could not handle it alone.

I am the first to accept help when I am in a situation where I need the
help... but this was not the case. I was very capable of being the main (and
only) healer. The tank is my husband... You think I'm gonna let HIM die?
haaaaaaaaaaa... Not on your life, mister!


"Faeandar" <mr_castalot RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5pqia2hbdlpstkdsubs8g32fsaph1ksa1d@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:37:52 +0100, Tony Evans
> <postmaster@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>>In alt.games.everquest, "Chorkie" <krumz2003 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I feel that someone who continually gets nervous that a member's HP is
>>>getting too low and steps in to heal like this when they are NOT the
>>>healer,
>>>is insulting the "real" healer as if they do not trust them to do their
>>>job.
>>
>>Heal earlier or talk to them about it.
>>
>>Backup healers are superb when they're good at their jobs.
>
> Yep. At higher end you usually need a patch healer as well just to
> keep the tank alive.
>
> Tony's suggestion is valid, talk to them first. If that doesn't work
> just stop healing and start melee/nuking. Work on your defense and
> offense. When they ask why you're not healing reply as you see fit.
>
> ~F
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:01:05 GMT, "Chorkie" <krumz2003.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Is it just me, or do others get annoyed when non-clerics in the group want
>to "help" and step all over you?
>
>Let me explain.
>
>Last night in an Ldon, there was a druid in my group. Seemed like a nice
>enough fellow, but he seemed to think he was the healer.
>
>I have a hot button: "Incoming complete heal..." that I use. It never
>failed... each time I used it, my spell was JUST ABOUT to go off, when Mr.
>Helpful Druid would throw on a heal...

And, to me, the key phrase is "JUST ABOUT to go off" isn't it? This
indicates a breakdown in communication somewhere along the line.

Either:


Cause A
'''''''''''''''''''''''''
Mr or Mrs. Druid is not psychic, and possibly being unaware of your
unspoken (?? see paragraph below) clerical techniques, might have cast
their Heal a few seconds BEFORE your hotbutton was pressed. Thus, as
you decide to take action and grandly announce the incoming Heal,
they're already a split-second away from their spell going off and
landing.

As mentioned by Tony, lay out your heal policy *before* the manure
pile hits the windmill - find out what max hitpoints everyone has,
make notes, then TELL the group (as my cleric does) that "Since you
have X hitpoints I will heal with Y at Z% of your hitpoint bar". This
sorts out what the backup healers NEED to do (and need NOT do) and
also lets the group know you are a cleric with a plan, which is a very
reassuring thing, I can assure you


Cause B
'''''''''''''''''''''''''
You HAVE already laid out at what % hitpoints you will heal at, and
they ignore this sensible plan, in which case bitch as hard as I
would.


Oh, and as Tony says, for heaven's sake, lighten up. You seem to think
the game revolves around clerics, for some reason, and that groups
should always act to keep you happy, which is bloody irritating on a
number of levels. If you grumbled as much as this in a group of mine
you'd be thrown out for crimes against Hilarity - it's a GAME



Palindrome
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

Speaking as a druid, who often backs up main healer.

I actually see it more as a waste of my mana, not the clerics.

Lets face it, you were casting anyway, so you were always going to use your
400mana.

I see tank still taking damage.

How many seconds since you cast? 4, 5, 6??

Oh well Tanks still taking damage. I cast my 700mana fast heal.

It hits just before yours.

NM, tanks alive, and its my mana that could be construed as the one thats
wasted. Yours was gonna land anyway.

And just another point.

What happens if you happened to move, or have your spell interupted after 7
seconds for E.G?

Hmm too late to cast another Cheal. Druid too busy nuking. Dead tank.

And finally, whats to stop you "ducking" once you see the other heal
landing?

Ok, I can see your point regarding a sense of not being trusted.
But lets be honest, 2 heals are better than none.

But talk to your back up healer. 99% of us druids are fine.

Just my thoughts



"Chorkie" <krumz2003 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BXcqg.126430$dW3.89230@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> Is it just me, or do others get annoyed when non-clerics in the group want
> to "help" and step all over you?
>
> Let me explain.
>
> Last night in an Ldon, there was a druid in my group. Seemed like a nice
> enough fellow, but he seemed to think he was the healer.
>
> I have a hot button: "Incoming complete heal..." that I use. It never
> failed... each time I used it, my spell was JUST ABOUT to go off, when Mr.
> Helpful Druid would throw on a heal, and bring the health up to 80 -
> 90%... basically WASTING my cast, and draining my precious mana. I was
> getting very annoyed.
>
> I feel that someone who continually gets nervous that a member's HP is
> getting too low and steps in to heal like this when they are NOT the
> healer, is insulting the "real" healer as if they do not trust them to do
> their job.
>
> Can't druids fight? Geez... I've seen several that sit back and just do
> their minor heals and just give out buffs. We needed a fighter in this
> case (we had one warrior, a necro, a shaman, the druid, and me, the
> cleric). So basically it ended up being 4 casters and one tank. It ended
> badly.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

Chorkie wrote:
> "STORRIDGE" <everhard.TakeThisOut@ntlworld.comNOspam> wrote in message
> news:Vkzrg.32227$OT.22041@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> > Speaking as a druid, who often backs up main healer.
> >
> > I actually see it more as a waste of my mana, not the clerics.
> >
> > Lets face it, you were casting anyway, so you were always going to use
> > your 400mana.
> >
> > I see tank still taking damage.
> >
> > How many seconds since you cast? 4, 5, 6??
> >
> > Oh well Tanks still taking damage. I cast my 700mana fast heal.
> >
> > It hits just before yours.
> >
> > NM, tanks alive, and its my mana that could be construed as the one thats
> > wasted. Yours was gonna land anyway.
> >
> > And just another point.
> >
> > What happens if you happened to move, or have your spell interupted after
> > 7 seconds for E.G?
> >
> > Hmm too late to cast another Cheal. Druid too busy nuking. Dead tank.
> >
> > And finally, whats to stop you "ducking" once you see the other heal
> > landing?
> >
> > Ok, I can see your point regarding a sense of not being trusted.
> > But lets be honest, 2 heals are better than none.
> >
> > But talk to your back up healer. 99% of us druids are fine.
> >
> > Just my thoughts
> >
> To use my 400 mana for nothing is most definitely a drain on my mana and a
> waste. I do not have a problem with my spells ever being interupted unless I
> get aggro. This was not the case. Once I hit my CH button... that mana is
> gone.

No it isn't.

> Not sure what you mean by ducking

Ducking or typing /stopcast (/stopcasting?) is the only way to stop a
spell immediately. Note that there is no way to immediately stop a
spell when on a mount.

If you weren't using duck or a hotkey to stop spell casts, you really
should get in the habit of doing it. There will be times when you
realize the CHeal isnt going to make it and you need to stop the spell
right now and cast a fast heal instead.

> but moving and stopping the spell
> does not save the mana.

It depends on how the spell is interrupted or canceled but you most
certainly save either half or all of the mana when you fail to finish
the spell.
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

"Palindrome" <damon-nomad.RemoveThis@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:r2bka25basgds2d5f9mrmscaspfb7003g0@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:01:05 GMT, "Chorkie" <krumz2003.RemoveThis@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Is it just me, or do others get annoyed when non-clerics in the group want
>>to "help" and step all over you?
>>
>>Let me explain.
>>
>>Last night in an Ldon, there was a druid in my group. Seemed like a nice
>>enough fellow, but he seemed to think he was the healer.
>>
>>I have a hot button: "Incoming complete heal..." that I use. It never
>>failed... each time I used it, my spell was JUST ABOUT to go off, when Mr.
>>Helpful Druid would throw on a heal...
>
> And, to me, the key phrase is "JUST ABOUT to go off" isn't it? This
> indicates a breakdown in communication somewhere along the line.
>
> Either:
>
>
> Cause A
> '''''''''''''''''''''''''
> Mr or Mrs. Druid is not psychic, and possibly being unaware of your
> unspoken (?? see paragraph below) clerical techniques, might have cast
> their Heal a few seconds BEFORE your hotbutton was pressed. Thus, as
> you decide to take action and grandly announce the incoming Heal,
> they're already a split-second away from their spell going off and
> landing.
>
> As mentioned by Tony, lay out your heal policy *before* the manure
> pile hits the windmill - find out what max hitpoints everyone has,
> make notes, then TELL the group (as my cleric does) that "Since you
> have X hitpoints I will heal with Y at Z% of your hitpoint bar". This
> sorts out what the backup healers NEED to do (and need NOT do) and
> also lets the group know you are a cleric with a plan, which is a very
> reassuring thing, I can assure you
>
>
> Cause B
> '''''''''''''''''''''''''
> You HAVE already laid out at what % hitpoints you will heal at, and
> they ignore this sensible plan, in which case bitch as hard as I
> would.
>
>
> Oh, and as Tony says, for heaven's sake, lighten up. You seem to think
> the game revolves around clerics, for some reason, and that groups
> should always act to keep you happy, which is bloody irritating on a
> number of levels. If you grumbled as much as this in a group of mine
> you'd be thrown out for crimes against Hilarity - it's a GAME
>
>
>
> Palindrome


My husband and I have done many many Ldons... he is the one who sets them
up, and thus is the leader. He ALWAYS is very clear on who has what job
before the Ldon begins. He is very good about it... My CH takes 10 secs to
go off... so when I hit my hot button that says "Incoming CH to..." Many
seconds had been ticking away and JUST BEFORE it goes off... a little fast
heal would come in from Mr. Druid. He was definitely casting his heal afetr
mine... and after my message was posted. He was either not paying attention
to the group box or somehow felt that by seeing my message was his que to
start healing.

Certainly I do not think the game revolves around clerics... but since I am
a cleric and asking a question regarding my class that is what I am
discussing. Do you think I should talk about some other class? That makes no
sense to me.

You guys like to be mean to noobs here, evidently... guess the PC breeds
brave folks. Bet you would not be so rude to someone talking to you
face-to-face... but then again, I could be wrong about that...
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

"STORRIDGE" <everhard.DeleteThis@ntlworld.comNOspam> wrote in message
news:Vkzrg.32227$OT.22041@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Speaking as a druid, who often backs up main healer.
>
> I actually see it more as a waste of my mana, not the clerics.
>
> Lets face it, you were casting anyway, so you were always going to use
> your 400mana.
>
> I see tank still taking damage.
>
> How many seconds since you cast? 4, 5, 6??
>
> Oh well Tanks still taking damage. I cast my 700mana fast heal.
>
> It hits just before yours.
>
> NM, tanks alive, and its my mana that could be construed as the one thats
> wasted. Yours was gonna land anyway.
>
> And just another point.
>
> What happens if you happened to move, or have your spell interupted after
> 7 seconds for E.G?
>
> Hmm too late to cast another Cheal. Druid too busy nuking. Dead tank.
>
> And finally, whats to stop you "ducking" once you see the other heal
> landing?
>
> Ok, I can see your point regarding a sense of not being trusted.
> But lets be honest, 2 heals are better than none.
>
> But talk to your back up healer. 99% of us druids are fine.
>
> Just my thoughts
>
To use my 400 mana for nothing is most definitely a drain on my mana and a
waste. I do not have a problem with my spells ever being interupted unless I
get aggro. This was not the case. Once I hit my CH button... that mana is
gone. Not sure what you mean by ducking, but moving and stopping the spell
does not save the mana. And no, two heals (in this case) was NOT better
than none. The Druid kept whining he needed to med and took offense when
someone told him to med up while we continued. The timer was ticking and I
happen to be accustomed to winning Ldons and not let one bad grp member ruin
it for us all.

As far as tank dying... that is extremely rare. He is my husband and I
prefer a happy home. lol

And as far as 99% of druids good? I tend to agree. The majority of Druids
(and necros for that matter... for those screaming for my head) are good
players. But when there was an exception to the rule... I came here to post
about it.

So shoot me.
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 03:13:22 GMT, "Chorkie"
<krumz2003.nospammers RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:


>> Cause B
>> '''''''''''''''''''''''''
>> You HAVE already laid out at what % hitpoints you will heal at, and
>> they ignore this sensible plan, in which case bitch as hard as I
>> would.
>>
>>
>> Oh, and as Tony says, for heaven's sake, lighten up. You seem to think
>> the game revolves around clerics, for some reason, and that groups
>> should always act to keep you happy, which is bloody irritating on a
>> number of levels. If you grumbled as much as this in a group of mine
>> you'd be thrown out for crimes against Hilarity - it's a GAME


>You guys like to be mean to noobs here, evidently... guess the PC breeds
>brave folks. Bet you would not be so rude to someone talking to you
>face-to-face... but then again, I could be wrong about that...


I see you missed "Cause B" then, in which I pointed out that, in that
instance, I'd bitch hard as well.

You still need to lighten up though.


Palindrome
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 03:19:54 GMT, "Chorkie"
<krumz2003.nospammers.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:


>To use my 400 mana for nothing is most definitely a drain on my mana and a
>waste. I do not have a problem with my spells ever being interupted unless I
>get aggro. This was not the case. Once I hit my CH button... that mana is
>gone. Not sure what you mean by ducking...

Pressing D several times - fast way to stop a cast finishing.


Palindrome
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

On 8 Jul 2006 23:32:53 -0700, "Beal" <bealrabbitslayer DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Chorkie said:
>> but moving and stopping the spell
>> does not save the mana.

>It depends on how the spell is interrupted or canceled but you most
>certainly save either half or all of the mana when you fail to finish
>the spell.

Usually all, in my experience, or as so close to it as makes no
difference.


Palindrome
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 18:01:05 GMT, "Chorkie" <krumz2003.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Is it just me, or do others get annoyed when non-clerics in the group want
>to "help" and step all over you?
>
>Let me explain.
>
>Last night in an Ldon, there was a druid in my group. Seemed like a nice
>enough fellow, but he seemed to think he was the healer.
>
>I have a hot button: "Incoming complete heal..." that I use. It never
>failed... each time I used it, my spell was JUST ABOUT to go off, when Mr.
>Helpful Druid would throw on a heal, and bring the health up to 80 - 90%...
>basically WASTING my cast, and draining my precious mana. I was getting very
>annoyed.
>
>I feel that someone who continually gets nervous that a member's HP is
>getting too low and steps in to heal like this when they are NOT the healer,
>is insulting the "real" healer as if they do not trust them to do their job.
>
>Can't druids fight? Geez... I've seen several that sit back and just do
>their minor heals and just give out buffs. We needed a fighter in this case
>(we had one warrior, a necro, a shaman, the druid, and me, the cleric). So
>basically it ended up being 4 casters and one tank. It ended badly.
>

If the situation is exactly the way you describe (things are running
smoothly, you had the heals covered, but the druid was tossing a big
heal on the tank just as you were CH-ing, druid was only healing /
buffing) then I think you have a real complaint. Obviuosly CH takes
long enough that the druid has enough time to see it and not cast his
heal. The druid should have either done that on his own, or done it
after some discussion, or perhaps switched to a lower level heal that
would have saved him some mana and just brought the tank up a bit to
make sure your CH had a chance to land.

My only question is whether there was some mitigating factor. I can
think of a couple: was there a lot of lag, so the druid might be
missing messages? Was it a hard LDoN with the tank's health dropping
rapidly? Had the tank died and the group wiped previously due to a
missed heal?

If none of the above, I agree, the druid should have switched to
offense and trusted you with the heals. My wife played a druid and
was ok with the healer role but given the opportunity, much preferred
doing damage. When the cleric when LOM she would pick up healing for
one fight so we could keep moving, and then pass healing back to the
cleric. She was a high level druid (67 or so) that did some amazing
damage with her dots, so it was well worth it for her to be in the
fight.
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

Palindrome wrote:
> On 8 Jul 2006 23:32:53 -0700, "Beal" <bealrabbitslayer DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Chorkie said:
> >> but moving and stopping the spell
> >> does not save the mana.
>
> >It depends on how the spell is interrupted or canceled but you most
> >certainly save either half or all of the mana when you fail to finish
> >the spell.
>
> Usually all, in my experience, or as so close to it as makes no
> difference.

A fizzle is 50% of the spell cost. I had thought that ducking had a
penalty as well but could be wrong.
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

Palindrome wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2006 21:32:50 -0700, "Beal" <bealrabbitslayer.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Palindrome wrote:
> >> On 8 Jul 2006 23:32:53 -0700, "Beal" <bealrabbitslayer.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Chorkie said:
> >> >> but moving and stopping the spell
> >> >> does not save the mana.
> >>
> >> >It depends on how the spell is interrupted or canceled but you most
> >> >certainly save either half or all of the mana when you fail to finish
> >> >the spell.
> >>
> >> Usually all, in my experience, or as so close to it as makes no
> >> difference.
> >
> >A fizzle is 50% of the spell cost. I had thought that ducking had a
> >penalty as well but could be wrong.
>
> I wasn't 100% sure about the penalty for ducking, and always thought
> it was 0% but I may have misses a very small penalty in the thick of
> action. I'd never really consciously looked at it for many a long
> moon, so I tried an experiment out of pure curiosity.
>
> I've just this minute done a check using my beastlord. I memmed my 9
> biggest buffs, went down the spellbar casting each in turn, waiting a
> second until the spell was well into it's casting time, then ducked,
> to interrupt it. After doing this twice, I lost no mana *whatsoever*
> after interrupting 18 times. I suspected I'd lose a *little* bit of
> mana, at least, over that many consecutive casts/ducks, but nope, mana
> stayed at 100%.
>
> I also tried moving to stop the spell, and, at least on MY attempts,
> it DID save the mana, although running about to stop a spell casting
> just isn't as practical as merely ducking. two taps on the D key, and
> no more spell, as I learnt years ago Chorkie would be better off
> just using the tried and tested "duck" method, same as everyone else
> does.

You know after looking more and more I was coming to the same
conclusion but I was also certain I had seen the mana bar drop a
percentage point or two when I had been interrupted in one way or
another. Now I'm starting to wonder if it has anything to do with
differences in how much mana the server thinks you have versus how much
mana your UI shows or something like that.

I have noticed after being rezzed or getting very low on mana that
sometimes, having just enough mana to cast a spell is still not enough
to cast that spell. It I wait until I tic over and just have enough to
cast the spell, the game will tell me that I do not have enough mana
and as if to add insult to injury, will charge me some mana for the
effort. I have found that in general, I must wait another tic (two
tics where mana shows high enough to cast) before it won't effectively
make me "fizzle". This has nothing to do with mana pres, BTW. I mean
800 mana for an 800 base-cost spell, 500 mana for a 500 mana spell,
etc..

I have always assumed that this happens because even though I show,
say, 500 mana I don't actually have 500 mana. What I see and what the
server sees are slightly different...is my theory. Furthermore, it's
my theory that when you try to cast and it says you don't have enough
mana (even though the UI says yo do) that this forces the server to
update your UI or something like that and the mana loss from the failed
cast is actually just your UI being corrected. This is really just my
guesswork and I never bothered to investigate much because it's such a
minor issue.

Anyway, just my wild-assed theories about a minor glitch in the
system...
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics... 

On 9 Jul 2006 21:32:50 -0700, "Beal" <bealrabbitslayer RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Palindrome wrote:
>> On 8 Jul 2006 23:32:53 -0700, "Beal" <bealrabbitslayer RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Chorkie said:
>> >> but moving and stopping the spell
>> >> does not save the mana.
>>
>> >It depends on how the spell is interrupted or canceled but you most
>> >certainly save either half or all of the mana when you fail to finish
>> >the spell.
>>
>> Usually all, in my experience, or as so close to it as makes no
>> difference.
>
>A fizzle is 50% of the spell cost. I had thought that ducking had a
>penalty as well but could be wrong.

I wasn't 100% sure about the penalty for ducking, and always thought
it was 0% but I may have misses a very small penalty in the thick of
action. I'd never really consciously looked at it for many a long
moon, so I tried an experiment out of pure curiosity.

I've just this minute done a check using my beastlord. I memmed my 9
biggest buffs, went down the spellbar casting each in turn, waiting a
second until the spell was well into it's casting time, then ducked,
to interrupt it. After doing this twice, I lost no mana *whatsoever*
after interrupting 18 times. I suspected I'd lose a *little* bit of
mana, at least, over that many consecutive casts/ducks, but nope, mana
stayed at 100%.

I also tried moving to stop the spell, and, at least on MY attempts,
it DID save the mana, although running about to stop a spell casting
just isn't as practical as merely ducking. two taps on the D key, and
no more spell, as I learnt years ago Chorkie would be better off
just using the tried and tested "duck" method, same as everyone else
does.


Palindrome
 >> Stay informed about: Ok... another question for clerics...