Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck

You mean you don't know which cards are in which set/edition?
I use the card list from a dutch reseller (I'm dutch too).
The address is http://www.gfmailorder.nl
Don't worry about the dutch language. Just click on the magic
bitmap and select one of the sets on the left.
All cards are listed with picture and description.

regards,
Marcel



"Clayton" <redneckdadd.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:vKudnaaxz8UaGfncRVn-vQ@rogers.com...
>
> "Mark Landin" <mark.landin.TakeThisOut@tdwilliamson.com> wrote in message
> news:9om8m01bem861lman0nh86hh28i4hptl0q@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:07:19 -0400, "War_Pig5"
> > <dontsendjunk2me.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I forget how to destroy enchantments with green 8th Edition commons (no
> > >Tranquility). Can someone think of the best way?
> >
> > Isn't Creeping Mold in 8th? May not be a common, though.
>
> Not sure. It is an uncommon in 7th and Mirrodin I know.
>
> Naturalize works for me. It's two mana, nukes artifacts or enchantments
> and to the older players, it looks a lot like Disenchant.
>
> -------
> Clayton
>
> Random Tagine:
> It's only a problem when someone else finds it.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck 

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:15:10 +0200, "Marcel Overweel"
<moverweel DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>You mean you don't know which cards are in which set/edition?

Nope. It's not a big priority for me. I hope I can still read the
newsgroup though.
 >> Stay informed about: Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck 

> Can Wing Snare also destroy the Prestine Angel even if it is untapped?

No, but I thought of more cards that *can* get rid of an untapped Pristine
Angel, and I added them to the list. Note that these cards do not target
creatures:

Wrath of God, Solar Tide, Kirtar's Wrath, Akroma's Vengeance
Barter in Blood, Grave Pact, even Plague Wind
Anarchy
combos such as: Lure/Thicket Basilisk, Venom/Elvish Bard
or, you can return the card to its owner's hand: Evacuation

> Playing once a week. Bought a starters kit, a lot of 8th edition
> booster packs and only a few from mirrodin, dark steel and fifth dawn.

In light of this, you currently do not have the cards I mentioned above. So
your best strategies against are:

- Win the game before your opponent can cast Pristine Angel (this is the
most popular strategy with top tournament players).
- Counter the Pristine Angel
- Destroy the Pristine Angel while it is tapped, when you are also sure
that your opponent cannot play instant cards that could untap it.

> Now we agreed to buy cards for max. 5 euro each month or reserve
> this 'monthly budget' to buy more expensive cards later. This way, it
> isn't
> a question of who has the most money and can buy the best cards, but
> more 'have to do whith whatever we have'.

I call this a Magic arms treaty. I'm guessing, based on your opponent's
better cards and deck, that he has a head-start on you. Here is how I play
magic without overspending my own personal spending limit:
- trading
- save up about 70 euros and purchase a whole box of cards.
 >> Stay informed about: Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck 

Hi,

Yesterday's battle was a lot better.
In the first two battles I played with a little bit modified deck. Added
some blue, removed some green. Added three whispersilk cloaks. Worked
somewhat better but still lost both times. My deck consisted of 65 cards.
Then I decided to concentrate even more on the cards you mentioned (and I
have). Removed 6 cards (mostly green) and added one extra Vex (blue: counter
target spell).
That immediately showed that less cards can be a lot better (or I was having
more luck).

This is my new deck:

green:
1x Vine Trellis
1x Fyndhorn Elder
1x Nantuko Disciple
1x Canopy Spider
2x Giant Spider
2x Spitting Spider
1x Rhox
2x Thorn Elemental
1x Tanglewalker
2x Giant Growth works well in combination with spiders or as preparation
before casting Inferno
2x Rampant Growth
4x Naturalize - he hates them, so that good too (grin)
1x Lure - nice for when my biggies are in the game
1x Wing Snare
2x Nourish (very cheap life gaining: GG: you gain 6 life)

white:
2x Aven Cloudchaser (for the 'whenever .. comes into play, destroy target
enchantment')
1x Circle of Protection: White
1x Pulse of the Fields - he hates this one too.
1x Beacon of Immortality (double total life and shuffle back into library)

blue:
1x Puppeteer (B,tap: tap or untap target creature). Worked VERY good in the
beginning of the thirth game.
1x Flash Counter (nice, but very restrictive, only good for instants)
2x Remove Soul
2x Vex (target spell controller may draw card, but at least not expensive
and not for one specific type)
1x Condescend

red:
1x Flashfires
1x Inferno

other:
3x Whispersilk Cloak
6x forest
2x plain
2x mountain
3x island
1x great furnace (for the fun)
1x ancient den (for when I wanne cast the flashfires)
ALL the dualcolor lands I have:
2x Elfhame Palace
1x Shivan Oasis
1x Costal Tower


The Nantuko Disciple worked very good when my opponent didn't had/use so
much creatures with abilities, now it seems almost useless.
Tanglewalker was an experiment, didn't draw it in any of the three games we
played. Maybe change this for another blue counter or maybe something like
Rampant Growth.
I could enhance it more by swapping some cards for more blue counter spells
and maybe another cloak.
Also a Isochron Scepter could give interesting results.
And I am not sure about the nourish.. ok, it's a cheap life saver but could
use better cards.. don't know yet if I should keep them...
And, yes, I am still puzzling about a combination with black... need more
dual/multicolor lands I guess

Regards,
Marcel

"Ken" <kfutamura.RemoveThis@comcast.net> schreef in bericht
news:d069ae6d.0410061207.6bf9456f@posting.google.com...
> > > If you're really desperate, you can use:
> > > Wing Snare (destroy flying creature), Execute (destroy white
> > > creature), or Flashfires (destroy all Plains).
> >
> > Can Wing Snare also destroy the Prestine Angel even if it is untapped?
> > Because PA has protection from all colors.
>
> Wing Snare targets the creature, so won't work against Pristine Angel.
> I meant that you can use these if you're really desperate about
> beating his deck (e.g., color hosers, like Flashfires, Western
> Paladin, etc.), not about dealing with Pristine Angel. For the Angel,
> use Barter in Blood or one of the rares (if you have them) -- I forgot
> Oblivion Stone (rare) also works.
>
> My main suggestion for your deck was to add black (for Creature
> removal and Discard). White will have trouble with these. You can
> even go with the Royal Assassin (rare) to pick off his creature
> tappers (just don't attack with it).
>
> If you're staying with green, Troll Ascetic (rare) is very nice
> against white's abilities (dmg/destroy attacking/blocking ctr, etc.).
> Non-rares: Giant Growths, Spitting Spider, and Naturalize (or Viridian
> Zealot) may be useful.
>
> Artifacts: Fodder Cannon, Whispersilk Cloak is expensive (Lightning
> Greaves could be used), Indestructible creatures. Platinum Angel
> (rare) is difficult for white to deal with as long as you do not
> attack or block with it.
>
> Red: Use lots of direct damage (e.g., Pyroclasm, Shock, Spikeshot
> Goblin, etc.) against his key creatures. He'll run out of Hallows...
>
>
> Blue: Mana leak, Remove soul work. Another option is bounce:
> Unsummon, Boomerang, Regress, Temporal Adept (rare). Personally, I
> think blue is one of the weakest colors against white, unless you go
> with a control deck or combo-type deck (e.g., affinity).
>
> As for deck construction, always go with 60 cards (unless you're
> making a Battle of Wits deck or something). 4-8 extra cards makes it
> that much more difficult to get the cards you really need. Use 4 of
> each card that you want to have. Use 24 lands until you get a feel
> for how the deck plays. Try to smooth your mana curve (not too many
> high casting costs spells). Oh, and most importantly, have fun!
>
> Ken
 >> Stay informed about: Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck 

> And I am not sure about the nourish.. ok, it's a cheap life saver but
could
> use better cards.. don't know yet if I should keep them...

Lifegain is usually pointless unless it gives stupidly large amounts.

Example: A 6/6 creature is attacking you. You say "Ha ha! Nourish!" That
negates that one attack, but it can still attack again next turn and the
next and...

Example 2: 6/6 attacking again. You say "Ha ha! Terror!" Now it's dead.
You've not only killed it, you've effectively gained 6 life also since you
didn't take damage, and even more than 6 really since it won't be attacking
later either.

So obviously here, Terror is the better card, and it usually is. If you
put Nourish on an Isochron, that's not a bad idea, but then you could put
the Terror on it too which would be even better.
I would try to find some better counterspells if I were you. Condescend
and Remove Soul are OK, but there's other good ones like Mana Leak or Power
Sink or Arcane Denial. Also if you're mostly using your Puppeteer to tap his
creatures, Master Decoy would be a cheaper way for you to do that. There's
also a few more red cards you can use to hose white (Disorder, Anarchy) but
you'll need to be careful not to mess yourself up too much since you have
white too. I would really try not to use so many colors either... it gives
you access to many different spells, yes, but it also give you the very real
possibility of having a fistful of spells without the right lands to cast
them. But if it's fun, hey.
 >> Stay informed about: Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck 

"Chris Wiegert" <cwiegert.RemoveThis@telus.net> schreef in bericht
news:J4ebd.5553$z96.3889@clgrps12...
> > And I am not sure about the nourish.. ok, it's a cheap life saver but
> could
> > use better cards.. don't know yet if I should keep them...
>
> Lifegain is usually pointless unless it gives stupidly large amounts.
>
> Example: A 6/6 creature is attacking you. You say "Ha ha! Nourish!" That
> negates that one attack, but it can still attack again next turn and the
> next and...
>
> Example 2: 6/6 attacking again. You say "Ha ha! Terror!" Now it's dead.
> You've not only killed it, you've effectively gained 6 life also since you
> didn't take damage, and even more than 6 really since it won't be
attacking
> later either.
>

I agree, pulse of the fields works much better for life gaining.
Can use that one several times as long as I keep just below his life. Six is
only six.
Ok then, out with the Nourish

> So obviously here, Terror is the better card, and it usually is. If
you
> put Nourish on an Isochron, that's not a bad idea, but then you could put
> the Terror on it too which would be even better.
> I would try to find some better counterspells if I were you.
Condescend
> and Remove Soul are OK, but there's other good ones like Mana Leak or
Power
> Sink or Arcane Denial.

I've tried mana leak in my old deck a few times. Problem was that my
opponent always had more than enough mana to negate that one.

> Also if you're mostly using your Puppeteer to tap his
> creatures, Master Decoy would be a cheaper way for you to do that.

Had some success by attacking with Rhox (5/5) and using the puppeteer to
untap him to make it a blocker again.
I hope this is a correct way to play it: opponent declares attackers, I use
the puppeteer's untap on rhox and declare it as a blocker?
It is: declare attackers - instants/abilities - declare blockers -
instants/abilities - play out damage ... ?
And if Rhox is equipped with a whispering cloak, both my opponent *and me*
can't target it to use a tap or untap ability, right?

> There's also a few more red cards you can use to hose white (Disorder,
Anarchy) but
> you'll need to be careful not to mess yourself up too much since you have
> white too. I would really try not to use so many colors either... it gives
> you access to many different spells, yes, but it also give you the very
real
> possibility of having a fistful of spells without the right lands to cast
> them. But if it's fun, hey.
>
Oh yeah, it's fun!

Thanks again for the tips Chris!

regards,
Marcel
 >> Stay informed about: Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck 

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:05:19 +0200, "Marcel Overweel"
<moverweel.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Had some success by attacking with Rhox (5/5) and using the puppeteer to
>untap him to make it a blocker again.
>I hope this is a correct way to play it: opponent declares attackers, I use
>the puppeteer's untap on rhox and declare it as a blocker?
>It is: declare attackers - instants/abilities - declare blockers -
>instants/abilities - play out damage ... ?

Yup.
Well, small nitpick: "play out damage" is actually -- assign combat
damage and put it on the stack - instants/abilities - damage resolves
(actually gets dealt) - instants/abilities - end of combat step.

>And if Rhox is equipped with a whispering cloak, both my opponent *and me*
>can't target it to use a tap or untap ability, right?

Right.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 >> Stay informed about: Little bit of frustration playing against a white deck