More advice needed

"Jobbles" <jjobbles.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:SmUWj.81638$y05.11157@newsfe22.lga...
> After playing with the Holy DPS build for my paladin that someone
> recommended here, I've come to realize that it just doesn't fit my playing
> style. I hate being a healer. I went with a group to BRD and managed to
> get nearly the whole group killed, because they expected me to hang back
> and heal, not charge in and start trying to dish out damage. And I
> realize it's a different playstyle, being the healer, but it's just not
> one I like.
>
> Playing a paladin, I like to be the solo wanderer, the guy who can go
> almost anywhere, the damage-dealer who's too freaking hard-to-kill that he
> gets through on sheer perseverance alone. This calls for a respec, and I
> did, and I'm back to being a retribution pally (this time with Seal of
> Command), but my equipment isn't quite geared. It isn't because of lack
> of money, it's because the +str/+agi/+crit % gear just isn't on AH.

Stop playing around in BRD and level to 70... then you can start getting the
Proper Gear.

> The advice I need now is, obviously my preferred playing style lends
> itself more to a tank than a healer/shockadin. I don't want to go
> Protection; I want to stay as the damage-dealer. Should I just chuck the
> paladin and go with a warrior?

Rogues & enhancement shamans can equal, and often exceed, a warrior's DPS.

> And as a bit of a side question, what is it with warriors as tanks,
> anyway? I hardly ever see a warrior being played these days. Usually the
> tanks are either feral druids or warlocks with a Voidwalker out, or in
> some cases a paladin. No warriors. What gives?

Because, like you, most warriors want to bam bam and rock the damage meters.

You should note that dps warriors are usually left in LFM while other dps
classes, capable of crowd control, get groups a lot faster... if you want
solo/pvp then dps warrior/ret pally/enhance shammy is for you, but if you
want group PVE, you will find it easier to get a party if you roll a rogue,
and a lot easier if you roll a caster. This will change when you're fully
epic, as all classes have their merits, but nobody wants an over-aggroing
dps warrior in blues, who can't fight their way out of a paper bag, in their
group.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

"nut" <nut.RemoveThis@partyprescriptions.co.uk> wrote...
>
> Stop playing around in BRD and level to 70... then you can start getting
> the Proper Gear.

Yeah, well, it's a little tough to do it right _now_.

> Rogues & enhancement shamans can equal, and often exceed, a warrior's DPS.

I've tried a rogue, and while the sneak-around plant-knife-in-enemy-backside
thing is great, I like being able to sit in one spot and wail on a target...
and not really worry about his two or three (or more) buddies who have come
to join the party. With rogues, you can't do that. You have to deal with
one guy, maybe two, but any more and it's time for Vanish... and if your
Vanish CD isn't up, you're left with Running Away or Dying.

Shaman... blech.

> You should note that dps warriors are usually left in LFM while other dps
> classes, capable of crowd control, get groups a lot faster... if you want
> solo/pvp then dps warrior/ret pally/enhance shammy is for you, but if you
> want group PVE, you will find it easier to get a party if you roll a
> rogue, and a lot easier if you roll a caster. This will change when you're
> fully epic, as all classes have their merits, but nobody wants an
> over-aggroing dps warrior in blues, who can't fight their way out of a
> paper bag, in their group.

Yeah, but don't groups want the tank? (Well, of course they do, they just
want the tank that can do more for the party than sit in the middle of a
group of enemies and not grab aggro.)
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

"Jobbles" <jjobbles DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ikVWj.3091$hJ1.2376@newsfe17.lga...
> "nut" <nut DeleteThis @partyprescriptions.co.uk> wrote...
>>
>> Stop playing around in BRD and level to 70... then you can start getting
>> the Proper Gear.
>
> Yeah, well, it's a little tough to do it right _now_.
>
>> Rogues & enhancement shamans can equal, and often exceed, a warrior's
>> DPS.
>
> I've tried a rogue, and while the sneak-around
> plant-knife-in-enemy-backside thing is great, I like being able to sit in
> one spot and wail on a target... and not really worry about his two or
> three (or more) buddies who have come to join the party. With rogues, you
> can't do that. You have to deal with one guy, maybe two, but any more and
> it's time for Vanish... and if your Vanish CD isn't up, you're left with
> Running Away or Dying.
>
> Shaman... blech.

Don't blech too soon... enhancement shamans can deliver a staggering amount
of damage... my shammy in blues is doing over a million damage in instances,
i didn't do that with my mage until i got the frozen shadoweave set. Last
couple of runs i did with a fully epic dps warrior, i topped damage meter on
first run, he just-about-had me on the second.

>> You should note that dps warriors are usually left in LFM while other dps
>> classes, capable of crowd control, get groups a lot faster... if you want
>> solo/pvp then dps warrior/ret pally/enhance shammy is for you, but if you
>> want group PVE, you will find it easier to get a party if you roll a
>> rogue, and a lot easier if you roll a caster. This will change when
>> you're fully epic, as all classes have their merits, but nobody wants an
>> over-aggroing dps warrior in blues, who can't fight their way out of a
>> paper bag, in their group.
>
> Yeah, but don't groups want the tank? (Well, of course they do, they just
> want the tank that can do more for the party than sit in the middle of a
> group of enemies and not grab aggro.)

Yes, groups want prot paladins and warriors... what they don't want is
fury/arms warriors and retribution paladins.

I was talking about you having a melee dps build... if you're happy to tank
then you'll have no trouble getting groups.

For your pally, if you haven't found it already, check out
http://paladincraft.net/guides/ for lots of useful info.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

J> Playing a paladin, I like to be the solo wanderer, the guy who can go
J> almost anywhere, the damage-dealer who's too freaking hard-to-kill
J> that he gets through on sheer perseverance alone. This calls for a
J> respec, and I did, and I'm back to being a retribution pally (this
J> time with Seal of Command), but my equipment isn't quite geared. It
J> isn't because of lack of money, it's because the +str/+agi/+crit %
J> gear just isn't on AH.

Just do HFP and zangarmash quest and you will get the gear that you need.

J> The advice I need now is, obviously my preferred playing style lends
J> itself more to a tank than a healer/shockadin. I don't want to go
J> Protection; I want to stay as the damage-dealer. Should I just
J> chuck the paladin and go with a warrior?

My advice is a bit extreme here but trust me if you want to be dmg dealer
reroll another class and I suggest some pure dps class (rogue, mage,
lock...).
What is it that you want from wow? If you want to do a 3v3 arena with a
warrior and shaman or BGs then you can play your pally as ret, for all the
rest (instances/raids) noone will want a ret pally.
I have 4 lvl 70 and a lot of experience nad trust me dont do dps with a
hybrid, noone will appreciate it even if you do great. My feral druid often
was first in dps even in SSC and still I got rarely called for dps...
J> And as a bit of a side question, what is it with warriors as tanks,
J> anyway?
J> I hardly ever see a warrior being played these days. Usually the
J> tanks are either feral druids or warlocks with a Voidwalker out, or
J> in some cases a paladin. No warriors. What gives?

Because it's not fun to play warrior as protection outside raids/instances
so those prot warriors are in guilds and you dont see them.
And thre is NO Voidwalker tanking any instance of his level (maybe 10 lvl
lower)
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

On 15 May, 12:36, "Shammy" <n....DeleteThis@nothing.com> wrote:

> J> The advice I need now is, obviously my preferred playing style lends
> J> itself  more to a tank than a healer/shockadin.  I don't want to go
> J> Protection; I  want to stay as the damage-dealer.  Should I just
> J> chuck the paladin and go  with a warrior?
>
> My advice is a bit extreme here but trust me if you want to be dmg dealer
> reroll another class and I suggest some pure dps class (rogue, mage,
> lock...).

> I have 4 lvl 70 and a lot  of experience nad trust me dont do dps with a
> hybrid, noone will appreciate it even if you do great. My feral druid often
> was first in dps even in SSC and still I got rarely called for dps...

This is a bit of a shame really. I have grouped with three or four
retribution paladins in my time in outlands and not one of them were a
liability to the group in any way. Same for feral druids - they seem
less popular as dps than moonkin druids. My guild leader is a Druid
and he was getting people for a heroic instance that he was tanking
and when I asked to join he said 'We don't need two tanks' WTF! He
was a feral druid and so he should have known that I didn't need to
respec to do dps - just get my dps gear out.


> J> And as a bit of a side question, what is it with warriors as tanks,
> J> anyway?
> J> I hardly ever see a warrior being played these days.  Usually the
> J> tanks are  either feral druids or warlocks with a Voidwalker out, or
> J> in some cases a  paladin.  No warriors.  What gives?
>
> Because it's not fun to play warrior as protection outside raids/instances
> so those prot warriors are in guilds and you dont see them.

> And thre is NO Voidwalker tanking any instance of his level (maybe 10 lvl
> lower)

Just the other night my friend and I took our level 60 rogue friend
through to the first boss of ramparts for the sword that he drops. We
did that twice with two level 70s and the 60 rogue with the warlock's
VW tanking and my priest healing. I was off-spec (heavy disc) for
instance healing but I have about 1800 +heal and the VW was fine.

I'm not sure that he'd have managed the last boss even with a full
group.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

On 15 May, 13:41, "Shammy" <n... DeleteThis @nothing.com> wrote:

> sk> Just the other night my friend and I took our level 60 rogue friend
> sk> through to the first boss of ramparts for the sword that he drops.
> sk> We did that twice with two level 70s and the 60 rogue with the
> sk> warlock's
> sk> VW tanking and my priest healing.  I was off-spec (heavy disc) for
> sk> instance healing but I have about 1800 +heal and the VW was fine.
> sk>
>
> But the lock was 10 lvl higher than the instance right ?

I wasn't contradicting you. I was just telling a coincidental story
because it happened so recently and you'd said that they'd need to be
10 levels higher and he was.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

On 15 May, 14:41, "Shammy" <n... DeleteThis @nothing.com> wrote:
> sk> I wasn't contradicting you.  I was just telling a coincidental story
> sk> because it happened so recently and you'd said that they'd need to
> sk> be 10 levels higher and he was.
>
> You got me a bit confused, since I was talking about locks and then you said
> a lock tanked it so I wasnt sure anymore f it was 70 lock or not :p

Yeah, two people made the same comment so I guess it was my fault and
I should have been clearer.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

On Thu, 15 May 2008 05:36:40 -0500, "Jobbles" <jjobbles RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>After playing with the Holy DPS build for my paladin that someone
>recommended here, I've come to realize that it just doesn't fit my playing
>style. I hate being a healer. I went with a group to BRD and managed to
>get nearly the whole group killed, because they expected me to hang back and
>heal, not charge in and start trying to dish out damage. And I realize it's
>a different playstyle, being the healer, but it's just not one I like.
>
>Playing a paladin, I like to be the solo wanderer, the guy who can go almost
>anywhere, the damage-dealer who's too freaking hard-to-kill that he gets
>through on sheer perseverance alone. This calls for a respec, and I did,
>and I'm back to being a retribution pally (this time with Seal of Command),
>but my equipment isn't quite geared. It isn't because of lack of money,
>it's because the +str/+agi/+crit % gear just isn't on AH.
>
>The advice I need now is, obviously my preferred playing style lends itself
>more to a tank than a healer/shockadin. I don't want to go Protection; I
>want to stay as the damage-dealer. Should I just chuck the paladin and go
>with a warrior?

As others have said, sounds like another class would suit you better, if
you want to group at least. If you want to solo then just do as you like
with the paladin, but in groups you'd find it easier being a class that's
traditionally seen as a dps class.

Have to say you sound like the deathknight would suit you rather well, they
are said to be going to be able to tank via doing lots of damage, perhaps
that might be just what you're looking for? No idea when WotLK is coming
yet, unfortunately, but it may be something for you to look forward to at
least.

>And as a bit of a side question, what is it with warriors as tanks, anyway?
>I hardly ever see a warrior being played these days. Usually the tanks are
>either feral druids or warlocks with a Voidwalker out, or in some cases a
>paladin. No warriors. What gives?

As others have said, warriors can't do very much as prot outside of groups,
while feral druids can solo fine and prot paladins can solo well given the
right mobs (forget it on casters, but get a bunch of melee mobs and aoe
killing is very fun indeed)

Personally I haven't found warriors to suit me too well, I have a lvl 30
one which I started out levelling as prot, rapidly realised my mistake (oh
boy was it slow), went to dualwield fury but got very bored of dying every
time I got an add, on mobs pretty much every other character I've had, even
the holy priests, would've had no trouble with. Maybe they get better
athigher levels but mine is kinda stuck at lvl 30.
--
EU-Draenor:
Balgair - Human Rogue (lvl 70)
Naomh - Draenei Priest (lvl 70)
Sagart - Undead Priest (lvl 70)
Rosad - Human Warlock (lvl 70)
Sealgair - Dwarf Hunter (lvl 70)
Eilnich - Blood Elf Warlock (lvl 70)
Beag - Dwarf Paladin (lvl 60)
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

On 15 May, 14:18, Catriona R <catrionarNOS... RemoveThis @totalise.co.uk> wrote:

> Personally I haven't found warriors to suit me too well, I have a lvl 30
> one which I started out levelling as prot, rapidly realised my mistake (oh
> boy was it slow), went to dualwield fury but got very bored of dying every
> time I got an add, on mobs pretty much every other character I've had, even
> the holy priests, would've had no trouble with. Maybe they get better
> athigher levels but mine is kinda stuck at lvl 30.

I got stuck at level 18 on my warrior. I revived him when a friend
wanted to level a priest and it became much better when he was
constantly duoed with a healer. He's now at stuck level 38 and I
cringe whenever my friend wants to duo. (we usually play together
with another set of alts and a third player and he only wants to duo
when the other guy isn't on)

I have a level 38 mage too - maybe I should just level her with him
instead.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

steve.kaye wrote:
> On 15 May, 12:36, "Shammy" <n....RemoveThis@nothing.com> wrote:
>> And thre is NO Voidwalker tanking any instance of his level (maybe 10 lvl
>> lower)
>
> Just the other night my friend and I took our level 60 rogue friend
> through to the first boss of ramparts for the sword that he drops. We
> did that twice with two level 70s and the 60 rogue with the warlock's
> VW tanking and my priest healing. I was off-spec (heavy disc) for
> instance healing but I have about 1800 +heal and the VW was fine.
>
> I'm not sure that he'd have managed the last boss even with a full
> group.

The voidwalker was 10 levels higher than the instance required, Shammy
already said that this wouldn't be a problem.

I've pulled groups through Ramparts with my warlock using the voidwalker
as a tank and a normal level 60 healer. No issue, really (I can
solo clear almost all trash in that instance, just the first boss is
impossible as I can't get the healer down fast enough).

The endboss shouldn't be a problem either, let the blue one tank
Vazruden while the warlock takes down Nazan. By the time my group had
finished Vazruden I had the dragon on the ground and just drain tanked
him. Didn't require any healing and at level 70 you will resist most of
the fire damage anyway.

Dirk
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

sk> My guild leader is a
sk> Druid and he was getting people for a heroic instance that he was
sk> tanking and when I asked to join he said 'We don't need two tanks'
sk> WTF! He was a feral druid and so he should have known that I didn't
sk> need to respec to do dps - just get my dps gear out.

Exaxctly what I said... if you get that from a feral druid guild leader then
immagine from someone that doesnt play a druid :s




sk> Just the other night my friend and I took our level 60 rogue friend
sk> through to the first boss of ramparts for the sword that he drops.
sk> We did that twice with two level 70s and the 60 rogue with the
sk> warlock's
sk> VW tanking and my priest healing. I was off-spec (heavy disc) for
sk> instance healing but I have about 1800 +heal and the VW was fine.
sk>


But the lock was 10 lvl higher than the instance right ?
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

CR> Personally I haven't found warriors to suit me too well, I have a
CR> lvl 30 one which I started out levelling as prot, rapidly realised
CR> my mistake (oh boy was it slow), went to dualwield fury but got very
CR> bored of dying every time I got an add, on mobs pretty much every
CR> other character I've had, even the holy priests, would've had no
CR> trouble with. Maybe they get better athigher levels but mine is
CR> kinda stuck at lvl 30.

I levelled mine as arms all the way to 60 and it was incredibly easy to the
point I always wondered what do all have to complain about warriors.
I always made sure most of my gear is updated and the most important thing
the WEAPON (<-- caps intended). At lvl 30 I made the lvl 40 warrior quest
(dualboxing :p) and the moment I got that axe it was incredible!! From lvl
30 I always had a good weapon and levelling was really easy as arms. 1-2
adds were no problem with sweeping strikes. At lvl 51 you do an AV for the
polearm and you have a great weapon till outland.
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed 

sk> I wasn't contradicting you. I was just telling a coincidental story
sk> because it happened so recently and you'd said that they'd need to
sk> be 10 levels higher and he was.

You got me a bit confused, since I was talking about locks and then you said
a lock tanked it so I wasnt sure anymore f it was 70 lock or not :p
 >> Stay informed about: More advice needed