request for advice, kinda

Jobbles wrote:
> After futzing around with my nephew on his PvP server, and getting
> thoroughly frustrated at the lack of high-level character response to
> opposing faction raids, I'm back on my old RP server getting my original
> character up to 70.

Oh, are people still doing faction raids? What's the purpose of that and
why would you need a PvP Server to do that? Most level 70 players are
now doing the dailies (on PvP Server you get enough PvP there) and then
logging off .

> I've been told many times that a lower-level (5 paladin can survive
> Hellfire Peninsula, yet when I tried, I kept dying. I'm up to 60 but still,
> fighting things in the Outlands that are my level is still an exercise in
> frustration.

Recently leveled a Paladin (Prot) in Hellfire and it was fairly easy.

> What I do is I set up a target with Seal of Crusader, Judgement (for the
> extra damage bonus), Seal of Righteousness for more damage output, and then
> follow that up with a Crusader Strike. Wait for CD om Judgement, Judge for
> Righteousness, apply Seal of Righteousness again, wait for CD on Crusader
> Strike. Ad inifinitum, until whatever it is I'm fighting is dead.

As far as I know a Retribution Paladin will use a slow 2-hand weapon and
Seal of Command. Why are you using Seal of Righteousness? Seal of
Command should do more damage.

> I recently upgraded my gear, and the lowest thing I'm wearing/using is level
> 57. A lot of it is Sorceror gear, which adds to my spell damage output.
> For DPS, I use a level 59 2-H axe. For sword-&-board, I'm still using the
> quest rewards given at Honor Hold, because I can't find anything really
> superior on AH.

Ignore the spell damage gear. For Retribution you should go for Attack
Power (Strength) and Melee Critical Strike rating as primary stats. You
want to do good melee damage (will also help Seal of Command) and crit
often!

> Level 60 paladin, fully trained up, good gear, what am I doing wrong? Is
> there some other tactic I should be using? Should I be using some other
> Seal/Judgement in combat? Should I respec out of Retribution? I was told
> to put all my points there, is that incorrect?

I'm Prot Specced and it's viable in Outland. I do pretty bad against
casters and I had quests where I wished I would have a different spec
and it took ages for me to kill something.
Retribution should do fine in outland as long as you don't pull too many
mobs at the same time. You have nice single target damage while prot
palas prefer multiple melee mobs.
With all the spell damage gear holy is also an options. Basically you
can level with any spec in Outland as long as you know how to play it.

> Also, I'm considering getting into BG's, mainly for the nice gear (my nephew
> apparently got an elite mount for way cheaper than I'd have thought
> possible). Is there some tactic I should know before going in?

You should level to 70 and then PvP as you get more honor that way and
the items will last longer. If you PvP now you would get the level 60
stuff, which you will be replacing pretty fast with outland gear. It's
not worth the time investment.
If you want to play just for fun, consider healing in battlegrounds, as
a good healer can make a difference there.

> If anyone wants to check me out on Armory, it's Valinor from Thorium
> Brotherhood server.

Armory is currently down.

Dirk
 >> Stay informed about: request for advice, kinda 

"Dirk" <newspost.TakeThisOut@cubeworld.net> wrote in message
news:68tesjF2usplrU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jobbles wrote:

> Oh, are people still doing faction raids? What's the purpose of that and
> why would you need a PvP Server to do that? Most level 70 players are now
> doing the dailies (on PvP Server you get enough PvP there) and then
> logging off .

I meant Alliance raids on Horde cities, and vice versa. I played Horde, and
during one raid on Tarren Mill I got so frustrated that the Alliance was
camping out in TM and no one in Horde was interested in stopping them that I
gave up in disgust.

> As far as I know a Retribution Paladin will use a slow 2-hand weapon and
> Seal of Command. Why are you using Seal of Righteousness? Seal of Command
> should do more damage.

I was told by a L70 experienced Pally player that SoCom is inferior in DPS
to SoR. SoCom does good burst damage, but to maximize DPS you want to use
SoR. (And from experience, he's right. I do better straight damage output
with SoC/SoR than trying to rely on the burst damage from SoCom.)

I'd heard to respec for Prot before, but I dunno... it'd cost more gold than
I really have access to, to respec, retrain and regear. (Trying to earn
that 300g for the Pally elite mount quest.)

-J
 >> Stay informed about: request for advice, kinda 

On 13 May, 18:55, "Jobbles" <jjobb....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Dirk" <newsp....TakeThisOut@cubeworld.net> wrote in message
>
> news:68tesjF2usplrU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > Jobbles wrote:
> > Oh, are people still doing faction raids? What's the purpose of that and
> > why would you need a PvP Server to do that? Most level 70 players are now
> > doing the dailies (on PvP Server you get enough PvP there) and then
> > logging off .
>
> I meant Alliance raids on Horde cities, and vice versa.  I played Horde, and
> during one raid on Tarren Mill I got so frustrated that the Alliance was
> camping out in TM and no one in Horde was interested in stopping them that I
> gave up in disgust.
>
> > As far as I know a Retribution Paladin will use a slow 2-hand weapon and
> > Seal of Command. Why are you using Seal of Righteousness? Seal of Command
> > should do more damage.
>
> I was told by a L70 experienced Pally player that SoCom is inferior in DPS
> to SoR.  

Either the experienced Pally doesn't know as much as he says he does
or he was talking from a Holy or Protection spec point of view. SoR
is better with spell damage and a 1h weapon and holy and prot specs
use a 1h and shield.


> SoCom does good burst damage, but to maximize DPS you want to use
> SoR.  (And from experience, he's right.  I do better straight damage output
> with SoC/SoR than trying to rely on the burst damage from SoCom.)

The reason why your experience tells you that he is right is because
you are not geared for a Retribution spec and so Seal of Command is
not being used to it's full potential.

Seal of Righteousness should be used on a fast one hander because it
goes off on every swing. It's damage is increased by spell damage.

Seal of Command should be used on a big hitting two hander because its
proc chance is set so that it happens a number (6?) of times per
minute and it is based on the weapon damage and attack power. This
means that it will hit harder with a big hitting weapon and it is
unaffected by weapon speed so you need to get the hardest hitting
weapon you can and that is usually the slowest.

If you want to up your DPS without changing your gear then you need to
look up Holy DPS specs and try one of those. If you want to up your
DPS without respeccing then you'll need to start using Seal of Command
and get gear which increases your attack power and crit %.


> I'd heard to respec for Prot before, but I dunno... it'd cost more gold than
> I really have access to, to respec, retrain and regear.  (Trying to earn
> that 300g for the Pally elite mount quest.)

I think that your problem is that you've followed mixed advice and so
you have mixed gear / spec / tactics. To make your character work to
it's best potential you really need to match these things together.

The cheapest option now is probably to match your spec to the gear
that you have bought. That would be a holy dps build. This would
also have the advantage that you could heal in groups too. I think
that your playing style wouldn't change much either although you'd
want to put the 2h weapon away and go 1h + shield.

The next cheapest option would be to look up retribution gear and
tactics and buy retribution gear and start playing like a retribution
paladin.

The most expensive would be to switch to protection as that would
require both a respec and a regear.

steve.kaye
 >> Stay informed about: request for advice, kinda 

steve.kaye wrote:
> On 13 May, 18:55, "Jobbles" <jjobb... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was told by a L70 experienced Pally player that SoCom is inferior in DPS
>> to SoR.
>
> Either the experienced Pally doesn't know as much as he says he does
> or he was talking from a Holy or Protection spec point of view. SoR
> is better with spell damage and a 1h weapon and holy and prot specs
> use a 1h and shield.

For a Ret Pally Seal of Command (or Seal of Blood for Horde Paladins)
provides more DPS, this assumes you have the right gear for it. The
right gear makes a big difference.

>> SoCom does good burst damage, but to maximize DPS you want to use
>> SoR. (And from experience, he's right. I do better straight damage output
>> with SoC/SoR than trying to rely on the burst damage from SoCom.)
>
> The reason why your experience tells you that he is right is because
> you are not geared for a Retribution spec and so Seal of Command is
> not being used to it's full potential.

Agree with Steve, especially after looking you up in the armory. Your
gear is more suited for a holy pala with lots of Int, Spell Damage and
MP5. You don't need that as a Retribution Paladin, go for warrior gear.

> If you want to up your DPS without changing your gear then you need to
> look up Holy DPS specs and try one of those. If you want to up your
> DPS without respeccing then you'll need to start using Seal of Command
> and get gear which increases your attack power and crit %.

He needs to respec anyway, as his build does not even include Seal of
Command.

>> I'd heard to respec for Prot before, but I dunno... it'd cost more gold than
>> I really have access to, to respec, retrain and regear. (Trying to earn
>> that 300g for the Pally elite mount quest.)
>
> I think that your problem is that you've followed mixed advice and so
> you have mixed gear / spec / tactics. To make your character work to
> it's best potential you really need to match these things together.
>
> The cheapest option now is probably to match your spec to the gear
> that you have bought. That would be a holy dps build. This would
> also have the advantage that you could heal in groups too. I think
> that your playing style wouldn't change much either although you'd
> want to put the 2h weapon away and go 1h + shield.

Agree with Steve again, this seems a viable option for you. Your play
style won't change much, you can easily get into groups as a healer and
you already have decent gear for it. There is a lot of spell damage gear
available in Outland (from the quest rewards alone), making life as a
holy paladin pretty easy.

> The next cheapest option would be to look up retribution gear and
> tactics and buy retribution gear and start playing like a retribution
> paladin.

This would also require a respec and a replacement of big parts of his
gear. While you are at it, consider spending 5 points into Divine
Strength, the +10% strength is too good ignore.

> The most expensive would be to switch to protection as that would
> require both a respec and a regear.

This would also come with a change in play style. Your single target DPS
just sucks, you will always try to fight multiple mobs. It takes some
time to get used to this and the only option in groups would be do go as
a tank (with good healing gear and a good group you can pull off to go
as healer, but tanking would be a better option). If you have never done
this before it requires some training.

Dirk
 >> Stay informed about: request for advice, kinda 

Thanks much! I'll try the Holy DPS build.

-J
 >> Stay informed about: request for advice, kinda