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Since: Nov 17, 2007
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>nethack (more info?)
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On Jan 14, 8:13 pm, pend....RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Looking forward to finding out what is going to kill me this
> > game! 
> Most likely answers, IME, in Gehennom:
> 1) Touch of death from Arch-lich.
> Solution: Magic resistance.
> A lich-class creature will also curse your inventory pretty
> badly, so some holy water or remove curse scrolls might help.
> Or you could bless- genocide L.
If you don't have magic resistence, genociding L should
definitely be considered. In fact, there'r generally a good
candidate even with magic resistence.
> 2) Cockatrice touch/hiss.
> Cockatrices and chickatrices are a threat at every stage in
> the game. I don't care whether it's the
> get-paralyzed-by-potion-or-book-and-get- stoned trick, or the
> cockatrice-in-a-pit trick (kill a cockatrice, walk over to
> pick it, find it's in a pit, fall into the pit on top of it)
> or the ever-popular leave-it-for-a-captain-to-find-and-wield
> trick, they're just mean. Stay away.
I've never been hit by the cockatrice in a pit trick---I would
imagine that it's a rather rare occurance. For the rest: wear
gloves, pick up the cockatrice corpse and put it in your sack or
bag, so other monsters can't get it---if another monster does
get it before you, flee to another level until it's had time to
decompose. And you're warned about stiffening, and the antidote
is readily available (and should always be kept in your main
inventory).
> 3) Demogorgan
> 'Nuff said. Hope you've got some way to make "E" in one turn!
> Also have some way to cure sickness in one turn. Unicorn horns
> do NOT do the trick, it sometimes takes multiple tries.
I wouldn't say that he's the most likely answer. He's actually
pretty rare, in vanilla. (I don't think I've ever seen him.)
> 4) Juiblex. See Demogorgan above.
> 5) The wiz. Solution: Wand of death.
You don't meet the wiz until you want to, so you should be
prepared (i.e. you've got a couple of wands of death, and know
their charges). Once you've woken him up, however...
My own experience is that once you've gotten beyond the castle
(and gotten your wishes), it's pretty straight foreward and
automatic until the planes---and even their, only air and astral
really pose a problem.
If I exclude "stupid" deaths, like wandering around an
unexplored level wielding a cockatrice corpse, or choking on my
food, I've died more often an astral than anywhere else after
the castle. Generally, once you've got your AC down to about
-15 or less, you've got a good melee weapon, good ranged
weapons, reflection and magic resistence, getting to the planes
isn't too difficult. And if any of that is missing after you've
cleaned out the castle, the wand of wishing there will provide
it.
--
James Kanze (GABI Software) email:james.kanze@gmail.com
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
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Since: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:37 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 15, 3:48 am, James <james.ka... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't say that he's the most likely answer. He's actually
> pretty rare, in vanilla. (I don't think I've ever seen him.)
Me neither -- but that's because there's a limited set of creatures
that can gate him in, and I don't fool with them ... I kill them
fast. I'm given to understand that the longer you allow certain
monsters to survive, the better a chance they'll gate him in.
> > 5) The wiz. Solution: Wand of death.
>
> You don't meet the wiz until you want to, so you should be
> prepared (i.e. you've got a couple of wands of death, and know
> their charges). Once you've woken him up, however...
Not *entirely* true. It is possible, I'm told, to wake him up
prematurely under a very specific set of conditions
<rot13>
Vs lbh unir n gnzr zvaq synlre crg, gur zvaq synlre pna jnxr uvz hc ng
enatr
</rot13>
--
Respectfully,
Brian P.
>
> My own experience is that once you've gotten beyond the castle
> (and gotten your wishes), it's pretty straight foreward and
> automatic until the planes---and even their, only air and astral
> really pose a problem.
>
> If I exclude "stupid" deaths, like wandering around an
> unexplored level wielding a cockatrice corpse, or choking on my
> food, I've died more often an astral than anywhere else after
> the castle. Generally, once you've got your AC down to about
> -15 or less, you've got a good melee weapon, good ranged
> weapons, reflection and magic resistence, getting to the planes
> isn't too difficult. And if any of that is missing after you've
> cleaned out the castle, the wand of wishing there will provide
> it.
>
> --
> James Kanze (GABI Software) email:james.ka...@gmail.com
> Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
> Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
> 9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 00 34 |
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Since: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 117
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:41 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 15, 3:48 am, James <james.ka....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've never been hit by the cockatrice in a pit trick---I would
> imagine that it's a rather rare occurance. For the rest: wear
> gloves, pick up the cockatrice corpse and put it in your sack or
> bag, so other monsters can't get it---if another monster does
> get it before you, flee to another level until it's had time to
> decompose.
Hmm ... to each their own. I tend to leave the corpse the heck alone.
Why? Because in 14 ascensions (13 recorded here) I have never yet been
attacked by someone wielding a cockatrice corpse, despite leaving them
on the level (although I do keep an eye on it, and on anybody with
hands near it, via telepathy).
OTOH, I have been killed quite frequently by mis-handling the blasted
things. To me, leaving it for someone else to potentially find is the
lesser risk than the risk of forgetting that I don't have my gloves
on, or forgetting to put it in a sack and carrying it in main
inventory, and die when I fall into a pit or whatever.
--
Respectfully,
Brian P. >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:48 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jan 15, 8:41 am, pend....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 15, 3:48 am, James <james.ka....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've never been hit by the cockatrice in a pit trick---I would
> > imagine that it's a rather rare occurance. For the rest: wear
> > gloves, pick up the cockatrice corpse and put it in your sack or
> > bag, so other monsters can't get it---if another monster does
> > get it before you, flee to another level until it's had time to
> > decompose.
>
> Hmm ... to each their own. I tend to leave the corpse the heck alone.
> Why? Because in 14 ascensions (13 recorded here) I have never yet been
> attacked by someone wielding a cockatrice corpse, despite leaving them
> on the level (although I do keep an eye on it, and on anybody with
> hands near it, via telepathy).
>
> OTOH, I have been killed quite frequently by mis-handling the blasted
> things. To me, leaving it for someone else to potentially find is the
> lesser risk than the risk of forgetting that I don't have my gloves
> on, or forgetting to put it in a sack and carrying it in main
> inventory, and die when I fall into a pit or whatever.
Just to correct a persistent myth, the sack doesn't matter at all. If
you're not wielding it, falling into a pit (or down stairs or
whatever) is treated exactly the same with it in open inventory as in
a container (ie harmless).
Your "leave it alone" policy is reasonable, though I tend to go for a
more paranoid triple-check the gloves and get it out of enemy hands
approach (preferably stuffing it in a chest or something). >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 37
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 14 Jan., 20:13, pend... RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:
>
> 2) Cockatrice touch/hiss.
> Cockatrices and chickatrices are a threat at every stage in the game.
Not IMO. (Sloppy play is the major part of any problem.)
> I don't care whether it's the get-paralyzed-by-potion-or-book-and-get-
> stoned trick, or the cockatrice-in-a-pit trick (kill a cockatrice,
> walk over to pick it, find it's in a pit, fall into the pit on top of
> it) or the ever-popular leave-it-for-a-captain-to-find-and-wield
> trick, they're just mean. Stay away.
You can easily detect trapped monsters using the '/' command and you
can easily interrogate an adjacent pit by the '^' command before you
enter the square. (Both commands do not require to spend a turn.)
Any soldier (or other gloves wearing creature) will happily pick up a
cockatrice corpse to kill you; been there a couple of times. I'd never
leave such a corpse lying around. (If you don't want to use it put it
in your bag and ignore it until it rots away.)
> 3) Demogorgan
> 'Nuff said. Hope you've got some way to make "E" in one turn!
> Also have some way to cure sickness in one turn. Unicorn horns do NOT
> do the trick, it sometimes takes multiple tries.
Demogorgon may be summoned by one of the major demons, usually that's
no problem. Staying away from demons or having a fast means to kill
them (highly enchanted silver sabers, e.g.) helps a lot. (In my whole
NH life I've met big D just 4 (+/- 1) times.)
> 4) Juiblex. See Demogorgan above.
Juiblex will regularily be found on a fixed level in Gehennom; there's
a two-turn kill procedure, and therefore enough time to heal. Having
an uncursed unicorn horn is sufficient.
Janis >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 50
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:36 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jan 15, 6:23 am, Janis <janis_papanag....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Any soldier (or other gloves wearing creature) will happily pick up a
> cockatrice corpse to kill you; been there a couple of times. I'd never
> leave such a corpse lying around. (If you don't want to use it put it
> in your bag and ignore it until it rots away.)
Tinning also works. My favorite solution was having a pet yellow
dragon who ate them. 
In my current quasi-extinctionist game, I started putting them in an
icebox next to my sacfest altar. So if I extinct them I have a bunch
of fresh ones (individually numbered so they don't stack) should I
need them in the future for any reason.
- funcrunch >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Nov 17, 2007
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jan 15, 2:41 pm, pend....DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 15, 3:48 am, James <james.ka....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've never been hit by the cockatrice in a pit trick---I
> > would imagine that it's a rather rare occurance. For the
> > rest: wear gloves, pick up the cockatrice corpse and put it
> > in your sack or bag, so other monsters can't get it---if
> > another monster does get it before you, flee to another
> > level until it's had time to decompose.
> Hmm ... to each their own. I tend to leave the corpse the heck
> alone. Why? Because in 14 ascensions (13 recorded here) I
> have never yet been attacked by someone wielding a cockatrice
> corpse, despite leaving them on the level (although I do keep
> an eye on it, and on anybody with hands near it, via
> telepathy).
That's the way I used to do it, too. Until a monster did pick
one up, and try to use it on me. (He missed the first swipe, it
was in a fairly large room, and I was faster than he was, so I
put some distance between us, and started chucking daggers. In
other circumstances, I might not have been so lucky.)
> OTOH, I have been killed quite frequently by mis-handling the
> blasted things. To me, leaving it for someone else to
> potentially find is the lesser risk than the risk of
> forgetting that I don't have my gloves on, or forgetting to
> put it in a sack and carrying it in main inventory, and die
> when I fall into a pit or whatever.
It's obviously a trade-off---I prefer to leave them be as well.
But if there's any risk of a monster picking it up, I prefer to
put it in my sack, and be sure. (If I'm just going through a
level, for example, I won't touch it. I'll be on to the next
level before a monster can use it on me, and by the time I'm
back, it should have decayed.)
--
James Kanze (GABI Software) email:james.kanze@gmail.com
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 00 34 >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 80
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:41 pm
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jan 15, 3:55 pm, Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanag....DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> funcrunch wrote:
> > On Jan 15, 6:23 am, Janis <janis_papanag....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>Any soldier (or other gloves wearing creature) will happily pick up a
> >>cockatrice corpse to kill you; been there a couple of times. I'd never
> >>leave such a corpse lying around. (If you don't want to use it put it
> >>in your bag and ignore it until it rots away.)
>
> > Tinning also works. My favorite solution was having a pet yellow
> > dragon who ate them.
>
> Hehe, that's a nice move, indeed; very stylish!
>
> (Unfortunately dragons as pets are not too common at that point in the
> game where cockatrices may be considered somewhat a problem.)
>
> Anyway.., nowadays I don't kill the cockatrices; they're too precious
> as instant kill weapons for covetous monsters (including the Wizard) and
> also to preserve all the healing potions and wands that would otherwise
> be used up by the monsters.
>
Very true. I like to call it "ranching" rather than farming. If
you're really obsessive, one can dig out the entire level with the
exception of a few rooms that end up looking like ranch buildings.
Then dig pits in straight lines across the ranch that act like
fences. Do this on level 1 and you've got a pretty good guarantee
that you'll have a fresh cockatrice corpse for the trip into the
planes. >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Aug 11, 2004
Posts: 853
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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funcrunch wrote:
> On Jan 15, 6:23 am, Janis <janis_papanag... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Any soldier (or other gloves wearing creature) will happily pick up a
>>cockatrice corpse to kill you; been there a couple of times. I'd never
>>leave such a corpse lying around. (If you don't want to use it put it
>>in your bag and ignore it until it rots away.)
>
> Tinning also works. My favorite solution was having a pet yellow
> dragon who ate them.
Hehe, that's a nice move, indeed; very stylish!
(Unfortunately dragons as pets are not too common at that point in the
game where cockatrices may be considered somewhat a problem.)
Anyway.., nowadays I don't kill the cockatrices; they're too precious
as instant kill weapons for covetous monsters (including the Wizard) and
also to preserve all the healing potions and wands that would otherwise
be used up by the monsters.
Janis >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Posts: 5
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Well, my current game continues to go pretty well. I cleared out the
Castle and the Valley of the Dead for the first time. I burned ALL my
wand of wishing charges(maybe I overdid it some...wished for: scrolls
of charging, gauntlets of power, boots of speed, cloak of magic
resistance, amulet of life saving, ring of levitation(boots got burned
up)).
I'm level 19(ate some wraith corpses and drank a couple potions of
gain level, maybe I should've saved the potions?)
So, now I have the following:
+6 frost brand
+6 silver saber
ring of free action
ring of slow digestion
ring of conflict(in bag)
ring of regeneration(in bag)
+0 gauntlets of power
+5 cloak of magic resistance
amulet of life saving(figured I could use some extra insurance)
+5 boots of speed
+4 orcish helm
+4 SDSM
+3 small shield
My AC is now -29 without my shield.
I ended up genociding L. Not sure if it was the right choice, but I
just didn't want to deal with having my inventory items cursed.
Is #twoweaponing recommended? Do I want to raise my saber skill up to
its maximum before doing so?
Is this all the gear/tools I need for Gehennom? Is there something
else I should be looking for? This will be my first time down there
and I'm excited and probably over-preparing a bit!
Thanks for all the advice!! >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 80
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:02 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jan 16, 7:27 am, hoppe....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> Well, my current game continues to go pretty well. I cleared out the
> Castle and the Valley of the Dead for the first time. I burned ALL my
Nice work! The truly difficult part is over, now for the part that
tries your patience. Be patient and you will win, be hasty and you
may need to start all over.
> wand of wishing charges(maybe I overdid it some...wished for: scrolls
> of charging, gauntlets of power, boots of speed, cloak of magic
> resistance, amulet of life saving, ring of levitation(boots got burned
> up)).
Hmm, in my opinion: gauntlets of power (especially for a valkyrie not
wielding Mojo), and the boots of speed were probably not worth a wish
when you could have just eaten giant corpses, worn leather gloves, and
"just" been 'fast' instead of 'very fast'. Wishing for the scrolls of
charging was probably a good idea but if you didn't need to begin the
wishing you could have waited until you found a scroll on your own and
wished for a magic marker instead. The amulet of lifesaving can't
hurt, just don't forget to wear it The ring of levitation was
probably not worth a wish since there are a lot of rings in the game
and you could have just worn your thoroughly burnt boots of levitation
when you needed to cross something and taken them off when you got
across (watching out for incubus on the way over water). The cloak of
magic resistance was Good(TM) given your suit of silver dragon scale
mail.
>
> I'm level 19(ate some wraith corpses and drank a couple potions of
> gain level, maybe I should've saved the potions?)
Unless you are looking to cast spells, you are more interested in hp
at the moment but it's fine to use the potions. If you feel like
being slick, you can save some for cursing and use on the Ascension
Run.
>
> So, now I have the following:
> +6 frost brand
> +6 silver saber
> ring of free action
> ring of slow digestion
> ring of conflict(in bag)
> ring of regeneration(in bag)
> +0 gauntlets of power
> +5 cloak of magic resistance
> amulet of life saving(figured I could use some extra insurance)
> +5 boots of speed
> +4 orcish helm
> +4 SDSM
> +3 small shield
>
> My AC is now -29 without my shield.
>
> I ended up genociding L. Not sure if it was the right choice, but I
> just didn't want to deal with having my inventory items cursed.
>
> Is #twoweaponing recommended? Do I want to raise my saber skill up to
> its maximum before doing so?
It's only recommended if you feel like cuisinarting your way through
the rest of the dungeon's denizens.
>
> Is this all the gear/tools I need for Gehennom? Is there something
> else I should be looking for? This will be my first time down there
> and I'm excited and probably over-preparing a bit!
It's fine to overprepare, take all the time that you need. Keep wands
of digging, fire and teleportation in your open inventory. Having
teleport control and teleportitis (in that order) may be nice and
gives you a 1-move escape mechanism (on most levels)
>
> Thanks for all the advice!!
Have fun! >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:28 am
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jan 16, 10:27 am, hoppe... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> Well, my current game continues to go pretty well. I cleared out the
> Castle and the Valley of the Dead for the first time. I burned ALL my
> wand of wishing charges(maybe I overdid it some...wished for: scrolls
> of charging, gauntlets of power, boots of speed, cloak of magic
> resistance, amulet of life saving, ring of levitation(boots got burned
> up)).
GoP were probably a waste, by this point (post-Quest Valk) I wouldn't
wear them even if I found them laying around. Your Str should be
pretty high from the quest and it takes a fair bit of help to cast
anything somewhat reliably. If you're not going to cast at all
they're fine to wear but still not worth a wish IMO.
I'd go for jumping boots over speed and wouldn't bother wishing
either just yet, but speed is an okay choice--and the balance tilts
more toward them if you're busy trying to remember/learn everything
else (they work automatically without having to remember to use them).
> I'm level 19(ate some wraith corpses and drank a couple potions of
> gain level, maybe I should've saved the potions?)
I'd save them, don't really need to level up past 14 and cursing them
for jams or the ascension run is my preferred use.
> So, now I have the following:
> +6 frost brand
> +6 silver saber
> ring of free action
> ring of slow digestion
> ring of conflict(in bag)
> ring of regeneration(in bag)
> +0 gauntlets of power
> +5 cloak of magic resistance
> amulet of life saving(figured I could use some extra insurance)
> +5 boots of speed
> +4 orcish helm
> +4 SDSM
> +3 small shield
>
> My AC is now -29 without my shield.
>
> I ended up genociding L. Not sure if it was the right choice, but I
> just didn't want to deal with having my inventory items cursed.
>
> Is #twoweaponing recommended? Do I want to raise my saber skill up to
> its maximum before doing so?
Yes, you should #twoweapo. Don't bother raising saber skill, melee
skill is practically worthless once you've maxed luck (there's a small
damage impact, that's about it) and it's unclear whether the off-hand
weapon skill really matters. Traditional thinking here was no, there
was a thread recently that suggested that's not strictly true but I'm
not sure of the details sadly. But if there is an effect it's small,
go ahead and #twoweapon.
> Is this all the gear/tools I need for Gehennom? Is there something
> else I should be looking for? This will be my first time down there
> and I'm excited and probably over-preparing a bit!
Gehennom is pretty trivial (and Vlad is a wuss). Just don't wake up
the wizard until you have explored to the bottom and prepped for the
run--you won't wake him accidentally without a pet (master) mind
flayer or shapechanger that becomes one, assuming you don't go playing
drums of earthquake on his level or something silly.
So basically just be prepared for a lot of boredom and nothing really
threatening unless something summons Demogorgon (quite rare). Play
carefully and you should at least make it to the end-game. Obviously
carelessness opens up all the usual cockatrice/starve to death/green
slime/sickness etc problems. >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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hoppe172.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> Well, my current game continues to go pretty well. I cleared out the
> Castle and the Valley of the Dead for the first time. I burned ALL my
> wand of wishing charges(maybe I overdid it some...wished for: scrolls
> of charging, gauntlets of power, boots of speed, cloak of magic
> resistance, amulet of life saving, ring of levitation(boots got burned
> up)).
Since it's your first trip down there I'd say that all wishes have
been good choices; with the exception of the gauntlets, maybe. I'd
have suggested to save at least one wish in case it turns out that
you've forgotten something that you'll need later.
> I'm level 19(ate some wraith corpses and drank a couple potions of
> gain level, maybe I should've saved the potions?)
I would only drink the potions if I need more skill slots, so that
was no perfect move. Gain level potions are better used for alchemy
and (cursed) to escape difficult dungeon levels through the ceiling.
> So, now I have the following:
[snip]
Perfect.
> My AC is now -29 without my shield.
Perfect.
> I ended up genociding L. Not sure if it was the right choice, but I
> just didn't want to deal with having my inventory items cursed.
It was the right choice. (Another choice are the two mindflayers.)
But; your inventory *will* (occasionally) be cursed anyway after
you've killed the Wizard. So it's good to have some blessed scrolls
of remove curse and some holy water.
> Is #twoweaponing recommended? Do I want to raise my saber skill up to
> its maximum before doing so?
Yes to both questions. Your overall proficiency will be the minimum
value of the weapons and of the two-weaponing proficiency. So it
makes no sense to have any of those skills at Expert while one of
it is still Basic. _First_ advance the weapons individually to the
level you like, then train your twoweaponing skill.
But wait! I seem to recall you're playing a valkyrie, so saber can
only get to Basic proficiency. Maybe there are better choices; you
can become Skilled in two-weaponing and the good weapons where you
can become Skilled or better are mainly longswords, broad and short
swords, and hammer. The sabre is nice against undead (Orcus' level
and demons), though.
> Is this all the gear/tools I need for Gehennom?
Without inspecting a checklist I'd say "Yes". 
> Is there something else I should be looking for?
Maybe, but it's not necessary. (You have all intrinsics, do you?)
> This will be my first time down there
> and I'm excited and probably over-preparing a bit!
>
> Thanks for all the advice!!
Take care and good luck!
Janis >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Nov 08, 2007
Posts: 29
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2008-01-16, Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanagnou RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> hoppe172 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>> Is #twoweaponing recommended? Do I want to raise my saber skill up to
>> its maximum before doing so?
>
> Yes to both questions. Your overall proficiency will be the minimum
> value of the weapons and of the two-weaponing proficiency. So it
> makes no sense to have any of those skills at Expert while one of
> it is still Basic. _First_ advance the weapons individually to the
> level you like, then train your twoweaponing skill.
False. With an artifact longsword in the primary hand and a silver
saber in the offhand, proficiency for most purposes while
two-weaponing will be limited to the lesser of longsword and
two-weapon. Longsword has presumably already been improved to a
decent skill.
Your skill in saber *is* relevant, however. Improving both saber and
two-weapon from Unskilled to Basic will give you a +2 to your
effective damage *with the saber* when you hit successfully.
(In excruciating detail, you use the lesser of two-weapon and
longsword to determine your bonus/penalty to hit, the lesser of
two-weapon and longsword to determine your bonus/penalty to damage
using the longsword, and the lesser of two-weapon and saber for
bonus/penalty to damage using the saber. The saber will automatically
hit any time the longsword does.)
I'd guess your order of priority is to get longsword and two-weapon up
to Skilled, then to get saber up to Basic if you can spare the skill
slot (you probably can). It almost certainly won't hurt to do the
actual training in a different order, though. >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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Since: Aug 11, 2004
Posts: 853
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Marc Hartstein wrote:
> On 2008-01-16, Janis Papanagnou <Janis_Papanagnou DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>hoppe172@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Is #twoweaponing recommended? Do I want to raise my saber skill up to
>>>its maximum before doing so?
>>
>>Yes to both questions. Your overall proficiency will be the minimum
>>value of the weapons and of the two-weaponing proficiency. So it
>>makes no sense to have any of those skills at Expert while one of
>>it is still Basic. _First_ advance the weapons individually to the
>>level you like, then train your twoweaponing skill.
>
> False. With an artifact longsword in the primary hand and a silver
> saber in the offhand, proficiency for most purposes while
> two-weaponing will be limited to the lesser of longsword and
> two-weapon. Longsword has presumably already been improved to a
> decent skill.
"False"? - I used the word "minimum", you the word "lesser".
(Marc, what part do you think I have written wrongly?)
As long as you're Restricted in sabre you won't gain anything from
enhancing two-weapoing to Skilled if you're two-weapoing with a sabre.
> Your skill in saber *is* relevant, however.
Sure it is. Did I say something different? (Re-read my posting...
it was introduced "Yes to both questions.")
> Improving both saber and
> two-weapon from Unskilled to Basic will give you a +2 to your
> effective damage *with the saber* when you hit successfully.
>
> (In excruciating detail, you use the lesser of two-weapon and
> longsword to determine your bonus/penalty to hit, the lesser of
> two-weapon and longsword to determine your bonus/penalty to damage
> using the longsword, and the lesser of two-weapon and saber for
> bonus/penalty to damage using the saber. The saber will automatically
> hit any time the longsword does.)
>
> I'd guess your order of priority is to get longsword and two-weapon up
> to Skilled, then to get saber up to Basic if you can spare the skill
> slot (you probably can). It almost certainly won't hurt to do the
> actual training in a different order, though.
Two-weaponing to skilled? Makes sense to me if you're two-weaponing
e.g. longswords. But in case you're two-weaponing with a sabre!??
Do you mean that, if you intend to do two-weaponing with a sabre, it
is good to enhance two-weapoing beyond Basic despite getting at most
Basic with sabres? (Is that "right", where my suggestion was "false"?)
Janis >> Stay informed about: YASD - put to sleep by Green-Elf |
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